Bristol propose to ban diesel vehicles by March 2021

[5i1ver8ack]

Problem sorted but this wasn't an option when I bought mine. But no doubt this would polute our cities eventually.

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An unintended consequence can be read here...

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894

By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were drowning in horse manure. The London Times predicted in 1894 that in 50 years time, every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure.

www.historic-uk.com

 

[Digger]

Hi @WelshGas, are you an intermet troll by any chance?* You seem to love arguing and winding people up for the sake or arguing and winding people up? It baffles me how you can get so irate and argumentive on a lovely forum predomantely about campervans

*a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the internet

Welsh Gas is one of the most helpful responders on the forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and frankly the sudden and mad rush to demonise diesel does no one any good.

 

[Dave Wickham]

The 'is it' or 'isn't it' argument about diesel / electric is an emotive one. I don't think anyone can really be in denial about the need for a cleaner environment (Donald Trump excepted!), but the politicians (both regional and national) who spout off about the environment understand net zero about the science. Its the engineers and scientists who hold the answers and 'sensible' and 'workable' solutions. For example the council where I live think that a diesel engine made 25 years ago is not different to one made 6 months ago. They ignore the facts because it is politically expedient to do so!! There are major advantages being made in the refining industry - bio-diesel and low sulphur diesel technology that make diesel a clean fuel. Many of the posts in this thread quite rightly raise some of the problems in a global switch to electric vehicles - we would need many more nuclear power plants and nuclear is a very dirty word (although a very clean fuel!) - trouble is its the disposal or storage of spent nuclear fuel that is the real concern. The argument goes on but I don't think my 2019 Cali diesel will be forced off the road anytime soon.

 

[WelshGas]

Indeed @WelshGas certainly is a master Cali guru, and again of course everyone, is entitled to their opinion, but got to call it out that does @WelshGas have to get so argumentive so quickly, it can ruin a nice & friendly thread and taint it with anger, that's all I'm saying. At the end of the day, we all just love our Cali's and these threads should only ever really be easy reading, even relaxing reading to calm them 5 hour traffic jams stress levels

Takes one to know one, as they say.
I just say it as it is. Truth always wins in the end.

 

[Nolan]

On a practical note, I doubt the businesses of Bristol will be that welcoming as a large percentage of potential visitors will be put off coming into the city. At least London has decent public transport.

 

[Lightning]

Link to Article in the Guardian.

The ‘state of Bristol key facts’ report linked within the Guardian article, cotes that 8.5% of all deaths in Bristol were attributable to Air pollution - referenced Public Health England based upon ONS data.

I applaud Bristol for banning diesel vehicles. But why not ban all private cars? | Leo Murray

However welcome this plan is, the climate emergency demands truly radical steps, says climate campaigner Leo Murray

www.theguardian.com

 

[Joker 1299]

Link to Article in the Guardian.

The ‘state of Bristol key facts’ report linked within the Guardian article, cotes that 8.5% of all deaths in Bristol were attributable to Air pollution - referenced Public Health England based upon ONS data.

I applaud Bristol for banning diesel vehicles. But why not ban all private cars? | Leo Murray

However welcome this plan is, the climate emergency demands truly radical steps, says climate campaigner Leo Murray

www.theguardian.com

100 percent of deaths are attributable to being alive. Deal with it.

 

[Lightning]

100 percent of deaths are attributable to being alive. Deal with it.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Link to Article in the Guardian.

The ‘state of Bristol key facts’ report linked within the Guardian article, cotes that 8.5% of all deaths in Bristol were attributable to Air pollution - referenced Public Health England based upon ONS data.

I applaud Bristol for banning diesel vehicles. But why not ban all private cars? | Leo Murray

However welcome this plan is, the climate emergency demands truly radical steps, says climate campaigner Leo Murray

www.theguardian.com

[Head in hands] More data butchery by the Guardian. Never give a journalist access to statistics without a grown-up present.

The Guardian article claims: "...illegally poor air quality currently contributes to 333 annual premature deaths from respiratory illnesses in the city." No, it doesn't. The data as referenced simply says 333 people died from respiratory diseases below age 75. It gives no analysis of the factors that contributed to those deaths. A lot of them, presumably, were from smoking, and some will have arisen from other risk factors such as allergens, and so on. Air pollution will have been a determinant in some of those deaths, but we don't know how many.

Robust analysis by Public Health England estimates that air pollution is a major factor in between 28,000 and 36,000 premature deaths across the UK each year. Some of those deaths are from respiratory disease, but pollution is also a significant risk factor in heart disease and stroke, lung cancer and several other killer conditions.

 

[Lightning]

[Head in hands] More data butchery by the Guardian. Never give a journalist access to statistics without a grown-up present.

The Guardian article claims: "...illegally poor air quality currently contributes to 333 annual premature deaths from respiratory illnesses in the city." No, it doesn't. The data as referenced simply says 333 people died from respiratory diseases below age 75. It gives no analysis of the factors that contributed to those deaths. A lot of them, presumably, were from smoking, and some will have arisen from other risk factors such as allergens, and so on. Air pollution will have been a determinant in some of those deaths, but we don't know how many.

Robust analysis by Public Health England estimates that air pollution is a major factor in between 28,000 and 36,000 premature deaths across the UK each year. Some of those deaths are from respiratory disease, but pollution is also a significant risk factor in heart disease and stroke, lung cancer and several other killer conditions.

The report from the data the article cites (Ref. 95) states the following:

95 - Air Pollution mortality: Health Impacts of Air Pollution in Bristol report. Air Quality Consultants (2016). The report considered deaths attributed to exposure to both nitrogen dioxide (NO2) as well as fine particulate matter.


Looks like many more cities are introducing restrictions soon...

Should I buy a diesel car and what is their future? | BuyaCar

www.buyacar.co.uk

All of this coincided with increasing evidence that NOx and particulates were responsible for thousands of early deaths from respiratory illnesses each year. The Royal Colleges of Physicians and of Paediatrics and Child Health last year said the outdoor air pollution contributed to around 40,000 early deaths in Britain.

 

[Joker 1299]

The report from the data the article cites (Ref. 95) states the following:

95 - Air Pollution mortality: Health Impacts of Air Pollution in Bristol report. Air Quality Consultants (2016). The report considered deaths attributed to exposure to both nitrogen dioxide (NO2) as well as fine particulate matter.


Looks like many more cities are introducing restrictions soon...

Should I buy a diesel car and what is their future? | BuyaCar

www.buyacar.co.uk

All of this coincided with increasing evidence that NOx and particulates were responsible for thousands of early deaths from respiratory illnesses each year. The Royal Colleges of Physicians and of Paediatrics and Child Health last year said the outdoor air pollution contributed to around 40,000 early deaths in Britain.

Early deaths? How early? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks?

 

[Velma's Dad]

All of this coincided with increasing evidence that NOx and particulates were responsible for thousands of early deaths from respiratory illnesses each year. The Royal Colleges of Physicians and of Paediatrics and Child Health last year said the outdoor air pollution contributed to around 40,000 early deaths in Britain.

Then PHE and the Royal Colleges are pretty much in agreement (within the uncertainties of epidemiology). 40,000 early deaths is a hell of a lot of suffering especially when people can't easily avoid the hazard.

For comparison, early deaths from smoking are about 96,000 per year.

WG made the point earlier in this thread that obesity also kills a lot of people. Out of curiosity I just did some googling on that. A paper at the European Congress on Obesity in Glasgow this year estimated that a scenario in which 'magically' no-one was obese any more would reduce early deaths by about 3,700 a year. A lot, but not in the same league as doing something about air pollution.

 

[Lightning]

Early deaths? How early? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks?

Without a record—or memory—and expectations of continuation, we would not experience time’s passage or even know who we are, Rovelli contends. Time, then, is an emotional and psychological experience. “It’s loosely connected with external reality,” he says, “but it is mostly something that happens now in our head.”.

Theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli

 

[WelshGas]

Early deaths? How early? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks?

3 months - so 3 months less in a nursing home.

Obesity accounts for early/premature death and the Obesity rate amongst the UK population is 28.7%

Obesity Statistics - House of Commons Library

28% of adults in England are obese and a further 36% are overweight. This briefing provides statistics on the obesity among adults and children in the UK, along with data on bariatric surgery and international comparisons.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

The adult population 2018 figures is 52,403,344.

So 15,039,759 adults in the UK are at risk of a premature death and we are not talking 3 months but 8YEARS and 20 years of poor health.

Obesity could 'rob you' of 20 years of health

"Obesity knocks 20 years of good health off your life and can accelerate death by eight years," the Mail Online reports. A study has estimated very obese men aged 20 to 39, with a body mass index (BMI) of 35…

www.nhs.uk

So the premature deaths of 40,000 people in the UK due to Car emissions is minuscule compared to the health problems and premature deaths of the 15million obese adults.

 

[WelshGas]

Then PHE and the Royal Colleges are pretty much in agreement (within the uncertainties of epidemiology). 40,000 early deaths is a hell of a lot of suffering especially when people can't easily avoid the hazard.

For comparison, early deaths from smoking are about 96,000 per year.

WG made the point earlier in this thread that obesity also kills a lot of people. Out of curiosity I just did some googling on that. A paper at the European Congress on Obesity in Glasgow this year estimated that a scenario in which 'magically' no-one was obese any more would reduce early deaths by about 3,700 a year. A lot, but not in the same league as doing something about air pollution.

Don't forget the chronic health associated with obesity, and according to the NHS, as above, the decreased life expectancy is 8 years, not 3 months.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Early deaths? How early? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks?

In the context of these stats, at least 6 years. In public health data, premature death is usually taken as dying at age 75 or under. UK life expectancy is about 81 years.

 

[flying banana]

Why don't councils allow us to turn left at red lights. Sitting there like dummies whilst traffic passes in front of us. Why don't they get rid of speed humps. Why not turn off some lights. Especially on motorways. Why can't they make itlaw to have solar power on every new build from now on in. Plant more roadside hedges like they do in Europe along main roads to soak up noise and pollution. Why can't they have a 24hr public transport system and cheaper out of town parking. All this would reduce pollution. But its easier just to tax people rather than actually do anything. tossers

 

[Beeechke1]

Hell you guys are a lot of fun tonight!! I'm on my second glass of wine and was contemplating a third, but now I'm worried you'll move onto premature deaths due to alcoholism

 

[Velma's Dad]

Don't forget the chronic health associated with obesity, and according to the NHS, as above, the decreased life expectancy is 8 years, not 3 months.

I completely accept that the mode and timing of dying young from obesity risks is going to be different than from other risks like pollution, and with different types of ill health while still alive. I also recognise what a serious public health issue obesity is. My general point is that air pollution is one of the major public health issues of our time, and one I hope will be fixed quickly.

I suspect the solution to air pollution in cities is going to involve very drastic reductions in traffic, and a move towards banning private vehicles from cities altogether. Not just diesels - I read somewhere that more than 40% of the particulates problem comes from dust from tyres and brake linings.

 

[flying banana]

Hell you guys are a lot of fun tonight!! I'm on my second glass of wine and was contemplating a third, but now I'm worried you'll move onto premature deaths due to alcoholism

For many. The camping season is over

 

[Velma's Dad]

Why don't councils allow us to turn left at red lights. Sitting there like dummies whilst traffic passes in front of us. Why don't they get rid of speed humps. Why not turn off some lights. Especially on motorways. Why can't they make itlaw to have solar power on every new build from now on in. Plant more roadside hedges like they do in Europe along main roads to soak up noise and pollution. Why can't they have a 24hr public transport system and cheaper out of town parking. All this would reduce pollution. But its easier just to tax people rather than actually do anything tossers

Which constituency will you be standing in on 12 Dec FB?

 

[Lightning]

3 months - so 3 months less in a nursing home.

Obesity accounts for early/premature death and the Obesity rate amongst the UK population is 28.7%

Obesity Statistics - House of Commons Library

28% of adults in England are obese and a further 36% are overweight. This briefing provides statistics on the obesity among adults and children in the UK, along with data on bariatric surgery and international comparisons.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

The adult population 2018 figures is 52,403,344.

So 15,039,759 adults in the UK are at risk of a premature death and we are not talking 3 months but 8YEARS and 20 years of poor health.

Obesity could 'rob you' of 20 years of health

"Obesity knocks 20 years of good health off your life and can accelerate death by eight years," the Mail Online reports. A study has estimated very obese men aged 20 to 39, with a body mass index (BMI) of 35…

www.nhs.uk

So the premature deaths of 40,000 people in the UK due to Car emissions is minuscule compared to the health problems and premature deaths of the 15million obese adults.

The number of annual premature deaths due to car accidents at 1785 is even smaller compared to those due to pollution or obesity..Seat belts and speed limits must seem so pointless.

 

[flying banana]

Which constituency will you be standing in on 12 Dec FB?

Doncaster North. Against that smug twat milliband. Ha. Me and Jeremy clarkson

 

[Joker 1299]

The number of annual premature deaths due to car accidents at 1785 is even smaller compared to those due to pollution or obesity..Seat belts and speed limits must seem so pointless.

I’m immune from car accidents, I drive a van (and ride a bike).

 

[Lightning]

I’m immune from car accidents, I drive a van (and ride a bike).

I used to ride a bike until I ended up in the ICU. That avenue of fun ended badly....