Travel to EU may not be straightforward next year

[AndyWT]

Not sure what you mean wongo! Currently global zombie disease is driving things, that is not the normal! For all the folk who suddenly jumped on planes or into camper vans and went over to the continent this summer deserved all they got when they suddenly found out that when they got back they had to isolate for 14 days, enough people warned that it could happen.
It’s quite likely to continue to be the case well into 2021 as well. So in the current “pandemic” travel anywhere has a risk.
In normal situations, the majority of popular destinations are unlikely to effect travel too much.
I can’t go visit folk in Italy, not because am coming from U.K. it’s because I can’t go from one region in Italy to another, that’s nothing to do with brexit.
For all Nov I couldn’t go to France, but neither could an Italian, or a Spaniard so again nothing to do with brexit.
So if the EU stops U.K. travellers entering EU until we get infection rate down so what? It’s what we have done to most of EU already, and it’s what EU members have already done to other EU members.

People that need to travel can actually do it easily, people that don’t need to travel shouldn’t be travelling anyway.

From Sunday 13 Dec travel between regions is allowed, there is still night time curfew and a lots of other restrictions still in place, travel is forbidden 25/6 Dec & 1st Jan and all sky resorts are closed

 

[Wesel]

In my opinion, when the covid problem will be gone, the only real impact for the travelers that we are, will be the quantity of goods which can be passed free of charge.
Everything else doesn't matter much.
Before 'Europe' it was really my only concern when I went abroad.

 

[Mickyb123]

AndyWT what country are you referring too?

 

[Velma's Dad]

Don’t blame the EU for the red passport, UK chose it, could have been blue all along.

Well at least we got our Royal Arms on it either way. You know, the one with the unicorn.

 

[Mickyb123]

One possible possitive, excitement of duty free will return, negative limited amount of wine, damn

 

[Algor]

It is real news, in that even though it's a covid-driven measure, it's only coming into force as a result of Brexit. If we were not leaving the EU on 31 Dec, the measure would not apply. Whether or not you or I think that is a good or a bad thing is immaterial - the fact is that on 31 Dec a British resident can still enter France if they wish, but the next day they will be prevented from doing so.

The implication is that for as long as the EU decides to keep the entry ban from 'third countries' in place, it will be impossible for Brits to travel to the Continent (except for the very limited special reasons). That could persist for much of 2021 and the UK Government can do nothing about it. Given the direction of travel of the current negotiations, it seems very likely that political relations between the UK and our neighbours will be soured for quite a while and I wouldn't therefore expect lifting those travel restrictions to be a priority from the EU side.

So that is, I'd suggest, potentially a pretty big deal for the lot of people on this forum, ie campervanners who in many cases holiday on the Continent regularly and were forming tentative plans to do so in 2021.

With all due respect I should think they would consider it a priority! Over 12 million Brits travel to France every year and over 18 million travel to Spain, unless they want their coastal towns and villages to turn into the arse end of Rhyl cheap visa's will be the norm. You only have to look at the pressure (that worked) the Spanish & Greek tourism bodies put on their respective govenments in late spring/early summer this year even though our infection rates at the time were higher we were allowed in and that was nothing to do with EU membership. Money talks, politics can go run a marathon!

 

[Velma's Dad]

With all due respect I should think they would consider it a priority! Over 12 million Brits travel to France every year and over 18 million travel to Spain, unless they want their coastal towns and villages to turn into the arse end of Rhyl cheap visa's will be the norm. You only have to look at the pressure (that worked) the Spanish & Greek tourism bodies put on their respective govenments in late spring/early summer this year even though our infection rates at the time were higher we were allowed in and that was nothing to do with EU membership. Money talks, politics can go run a marathon!

I hope very much you are right. (A little harsh on Rhyl even though possibly fair).

 

[AndyWT]

AndyWT what country are you referring too?

Obviously Italy

 

[Algor]

I hope very much you are right. (A little harsh on Rhyl even though possibly fair).

At this point I obviously know no more than you do but if you look at the rest of the world (save a few exceptions) Brit's who don't have a criminal record and are willing to pay a nominal visa cost are pretty much welcomed anywhere, there is no sane reason imo to think that the EU would be any different particularly when that is where most of us spend our money. We don't have a very good political relationship with Russia but after a paying for a visa I have been warmly welcomed by the people of St Petersburg. If your fears are justified then I will become a self employed courier next summer and my "van" will be delivering several parcels around the French Med coastal area.

 

[Mickyb123]

Long time since I have been to rhyl so can’t comment.
The point that’s being missed is all of us currently are subject to travel restriction, from whichever country we are travelling to or from, irrelevant of EU membership.

obviously Italy, not that obvious, you are way off with what your understanding of restrictions are in Italy.
21 Dec until 6 jan, no travel between regions!
24/25 and 1 jan no movement between communes and extra curfew restrictions.
And in my post I mentioned Italy and France so nope not so obvious.
Those restrictions are in place for all resident, in the EU or not and will be while C19 is effecting the world.
Point is anyone travelling needs to accept responsibility themselves if travel restrictions change, so booking trips in 21 on a hope is a justfoolish

 

[Algor]

obviously Italy, not that obvious, you are way off with what your understanding of restrictions are in Italy.
21 Dec until 6 jan, no travel between regions!
24/25 and 1 jan no movement between communes and extra curfew restrictions.
And in my post I mentioned Italy and France so nope not so obvious.
Those restrictions are in place for all resident, in the EU or not and will be while C19 is effecting the world.
Point is anyone travelling needs to accept responsibility themselves if travel restrictions change, so booking trips in 21 on a hope is a justfoolish

You raise a good point, any one travelling does need to accept responsibility for them selves. Having said that is making plans to travel in the summer of 2021 foolish? I don't think so. Given that the overwhelming majority of deaths have been in the over 80's and that we have now started a vaccination roll out, the EU will undoubtedly follow in January then it doesn't take much imagination to think that the majority of the over 80's would have received a vaccine by April or May, Hospital intakes will drop and travel will be released. Like it or not governments around the world will find an acceptable death toll figure for Covid and based on Flu in this country that will be between 7,000 and 20,000 per year. Life is and always has been about risk management, we all die it is just a question of how.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Point is anyone travelling needs to accept responsibility themselves if travel restrictions change, so booking trips in 21 on a hope is a justfoolish

I'd have thought that was self evident to any reasonably intelligent person, not sure why you feel need to keep going on about it. The purpose of this thread seems to me to be to exchange views about what factors (not simply epidemiological, but also political) might drive restrictions or their relaxation in both the short and medium terms.

Algor, am liking your 'international delivery business' thinking...

 

[Mickyb123]

Algor, cannot disagree with you with regards to risk management, it has been the argument througout the pandemic, am not sure it’s about deaths it’s more about those that don’t succumb to it and take up beds in hospitals recovering Though.
The acceptable level of deaths per year from any disease becomes a political decision eg current deaths from seasonal flu that is true, its a while away though.
Problem with c19 is it is way off being done yet, vaccine or not.
Bringing it back to the thread, travel to the EU next year without covid would in reality be no more difficult for the tourist than any other year.

As for self evident to any reasonably intelligent person! Obviously not to the folk who instantly jumped on easy jet paddy air, p&o dfds in the summer expecting everything to be back to normal, then complaining when they suddenly had to quarantine for 14 days coz things changed, just like they were warned. Also until this thing properly settles down then maybe leisure trips to Europe should be restricted in or out of the EU. Maybe the U.K. as an island should start looking at other island states that have controlled the numbers as a lesson of what could have been done.
For Cali owners wanting to tour Europe, stick by it, currently it’s not a sensible idea In my view.

 

[Scoobz1]

Algor, cannot disagree with you with regards to risk management, it has been the argument througout the pandemic, am not sure it’s about deaths it’s more about those that don’t succumb to it and take up beds in hospitals recovering Though.
The acceptable level of deaths per year from any disease becomes a political decision eg current deaths from seasonal flu that is true, its a while away though.
Problem with c19 is it is way off being done yet, vaccine or not.
Bringing it back to the thread, travel to the EU next year without covid would in reality be no more difficult for the tourist than any other year.

As for self evident to any reasonably intelligent person! Obviously not to the folk who instantly jumped on easy jet paddy air, p&o dfds in the summer expecting everything to be back to normal, then complaining when they suddenly had to quarantine for 14 days coz things changed, just like they were warned. Also until this thing properly settles down then maybe leisure trips to Europe should be restricted in or out of the EU. Maybe the U.K. as an island should start looking at other island states that have controlled the numbers as a lesson of what could have been done.
For Cali owners wanting to tour Europe, stick by it, currently it’s not a sensible idea In my view.

As for things being self evident to any reasonably intelligent person - "Paddy air" ! Assume that is a racist comment as I have not heard of Paddy air

 

[davidgmo]

Interesting article this morning on the asymmetry in the EU-UK negotiations. It describes how the EU Country leaders and EU commission are sticking together in EU unity to maintain EU position whereas some of their leading sectors and companies in terms of exports to UK are very concerned about no-deal as it will make their exports to the UK uncompetitive and they fear significant job losses. So politics versus economy. Quote "the powerful industrial lobbies in Germany and elsewhere across the EU will at some point use their leverage and insist on Brussels showing flexibility in reaching a free trade deal with the UK"

 

[Mickyb123]

Think everybody knows that the reason the EU moves so slowly in everything it does is because of EU unity. One of any of the group can scupper any decision because of their individual needs. Eg fishing rights! Driven mainly by the French. Without an agreement IMO that’s the one that will cause more problems post covid travelling over the channel. It’s already being talked about, with the navy getting involved “cod wars”
For any traveller that raises the real threat of port blockades over the summer busy season.
scoobz, take it whichever way you wish, if it offends you I apologise, i also refer to another airline as tyke air

 

[GrannyJen]

As for things being self evident to any reasonably intelligent person - "Paddy air" ! Assume that is a racist comment as I have not heard of Paddy air

Ryan Air, as once described by Michael O'leary who has described himself on more than one occasion as a "Jumped-up little Paddy".

 

[Scoobz1]

Ryan Air, as once described by Michael O'leary who has described himself on more than one occasion as a "Jumped-up little Paddy".

Didn't know Michael O'leary was such an authority on what was racist and isn't . Guess that makes it alright then !

 

[Velma's Dad]

I think the fish are not really the issue, or at least they are something on which a compromise could be hammered out. The real blocker issue is the level playing field. France in particular, but not just France, is very concerned about the establishment of a major cheap-labour low-standards competitor just offshore with tariff-free access to EU markets. The facts that the UK actually has higher minimum wages and environmental standards in many areas right now hasn't dispelled those concerns for the future, although the Anglo-Gallic relationship is fraught with mistrust on both sides of course.

BJ has little negotiating room now, having been boxed in by the ERG, so it remains to be seen whether Brussels can come up with a creative package that will give enough assurance to the key member states on the LPF issue, while giving Boris something he can sell to the sovereignty zealots on his back benches. It might involve a series of 'baked in' review points so that free trade can be withdrawn if the EU feels the UK is getting out of line on employment and/or environmental standards. That would of course in practice constrain future UK governments on those policy areas, but might at this stage give a big enough loin cloth to Boris (yes I know, horrible thought).

I'm not placing any bets either way but I think it's still possible a deal with be concocted by the 31st. I certainly hope so because although I wouldn't be arrogant enough to presume "what people were voting for" in 2016, I honestly don't believe the majority were anticipating the hardest of hard exits and the damage to jobs and livelihoods that will do.

 

[goose]

I will miss being able to just hop onto the ferry and go over to Holland. however I'm pretty sure there are plenty of places to explore over here in Blighty that I have not yet been to. Just to let you all know I voted to stay in the EU!

 

[Algor]

I will miss being able to just hop onto the ferry and go over to Holland. however I'm pretty sure there are plenty of places to explore over here in Blighty that I have not yet been to. Just to let you all know I voted to stay in the EU!

Why? Are the ferries stoping? Honestly mate we are leaving a trading bloc not declaring war on the dutch.

 

[Blue Yonder]

Yeah but at least we've got blue passports now.

and bendy bananas too! Makes you proud to be British.

 

[GrannyJen]

Well at least we have the Royal Navy ready to go into battle for us .....

Although I still have less than distant memories of us having to use the MN Charles de Gaulle so we could fly our aircraft over Libya

 

[Tom Downie]

Holidaymakers from Great Britain barred from EU after 1 January under Covid rules

European commission indicates Britons will face ban on non-essential travel at end of Brexit transition

www.theguardian.com

Don't blame me I voted to remain! This is just one aspect. We are now seeing that 'project fear' is 'project reality'.project

 

[WelshGas]

I think the fish are not really the issue, or at least they are something on which a compromise could be hammered out. The real blocker issue is the level playing field. France in particular, but not just France, is very concerned about the establishment of a major cheap-labour low-standards competitor just offshore with tariff-free access to EU markets. The facts that the UK actually has higher minimum wages and environmental standards in many areas right now hasn't dispelled those concerns for the future, although the Anglo-Gallic relationship is fraught with mistrust on both sides of course.

BJ has little negotiating room now, having been boxed in by the ERG, so it remains to be seen whether Brussels can come up with a creative package that will give enough assurance to the key member states on the LPF issue, while giving Boris something he can sell to the sovereignty zealots on his back benches. It might involve a series of 'baked in' review points so that free trade can be withdrawn if the EU feels the UK is getting out of line on employment and/or environmental standards. That would of course in practice constrain future UK governments on those policy areas, but might at this stage give a big enough loin cloth to Boris (yes I know, horrible thought).

I'm not placing any bets either way but I think it's still possible a deal with be concocted by the 31st. I certainly hope so because although I wouldn't be arrogant enough to presume "what people were voting for" in 2016, I honestly don't believe the majority were anticipating the hardest of hard exits and the damage to jobs and livelihoods that will do.

Why does the “ Level Playing Field “ have to be one way. The EU has lower standards on Maternity !eave/pay and Minimum Wage at present. If the Public/Unions agreed we could drop to their level to create a Level Playing Field. Likewise on Animal Welfare standards and numerous other standards.