2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

[Robert&Catherine]

Not sure it is related but my expected delivery date has been pushed back. Was told it had gone in to production and should be at the dealer next week at the earliest…now told it is still in build and will be 4-6 weeks until the dealer gets it. That means it has now been in build for 7 weeks and counting. Frustrating but hopefully it will come with a bellows that is fit for purpose.

 

[Corradobrit]

Not sure it is related but my expected delivery date has been pushed back. Was told it had gone in to production and should be at the dealer next week at the earliest…now told it is still in build and will be 4-6 weeks until the dealer gets it. That means it has now been in build for 7 weeks and counting. Frustrating but hopefully it will come with a bellows that is fit for purpose.

Sounds like good news to me.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Pull the seal out from its base ?

Yes, just ease it very slightly off the seam it is pushed on to so it forms a better seal when the boot lid closes. I only did it along the top edge, not all the way around the boot opening. Only needs a few mm of movement.

 

[Tomdbreeze]

Hi @Michael Breeze and @Tomdbreeze

As represents of VW Commercial Vehicles and also as VIP Trade Partner and Trade Advertiser on this forum, are you able to offer any assistance to owners with regards raising the issues with the leaking new style bellows that have been fitted to MY23 California Oceans please?

There are now multiple threads on the subject on this forum (along with similar topics on the equivalent German forum https://www.caliboard.de/topic/32905-erfahrung-neuer-faltenbalg-t61/). There are also multiple differing responses that people have shared following discussions with dealers, technicians etc.

I have collated the attached list using threads on this forum, to show the 31 MY23 California Ocean owners who have experienced leaks with the new style bellows (as at 31 July). The California Supplement (Edition 11.2022) states to "Close the pop-up roof if there is a strong wind or strong wind with driving rain". The majority of owners listed below have commented that the conditions when their vans leaked were neither strong wind, or strong wind with driving rain. Indeed, a lot of the comments relate to times where there was little or no wind, and that the problem starts after rain has been persistent though not necessarily heavy. These leaks have been reported from March onwards when the weather conditions are generally less extreme.

Considering the wet summer we are having, it is worth noting that there are very few, if any, threads from Ocean owners with the previous style bellows reporting any leaks. Indeed, three owners with MY23 models with the old style bellows have confirmed theirs do not leak.

On our behalf, are you able to raise this with the relevant powers that be within VW Commercial Vehicles, so that we may all receive a definitive response as to how this issue will be rectified and what steps we as owners need to take?

View attachment 112253

Hi Everyone

Apologies for the delay in responding or commenting on this post as I haven’t had any notifications to say someone has mentioned it.

We have raised this with Volkswagen internally to get this sorted. We are still awaiting information on what part numbers are affected and so on.

I completely understand that this is an incredibly frustrating situation for customers and we are doing everything we can as a dealer to get ahead of this.

For anyone that has one on order with me please bare with me as I’m working incredibly hard to get the correct info.

Anyone that is our customer who is suffering with these issues please contact us if we aren’t aware of your issues.

For anyone that isn’t a customer of Breeze please also don’t hesitate to contact we will try and give as much assistance as we can.

Kind Regards
Tom

 

[RockinNRollin]

@Tomdbreeze I genuinely feel for you and other dealers in this; you're stuck in the middle with frustrated customers on one side and what I suspect is patchy at best communication from VWCV; you want to satisfy your customers but your hands are tied! Sharing info on here for this community is very much appreciated though.

 

[Corradobrit]

A couple of German owners are getting the "C" version bellows installed next week. They will report back if the leaks are history.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

A couple of German owners are getting the "C" version bellows installed next week. They will report back if the leaks are history.

Great news. Apparently the charcoal canvas has an updated part number but the blue bellows ordered to replace mine have the same part number as the ones I have already. This makes me feel slightly uneasy I must admit.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

@Tomdbreeze I genuinely feel for you and other dealers in this; you're stuck in the middle with frustrated customers on one side and what I suspect is patchy at best communication from VWCV; you want to satisfy your customers but your hands are tied! Sharing info on here for this community is very much appreciated though.

I’ll be Honest, I don’t have any sympathy for any franchise or dealer. They know what products they sell, and most of their salesman wont mention anything about any issues that occur with their vehicles.
For example : these new bellows have Been leaking for a while by the looks of it, Its a known issue, I bought my Cali ocean 2 weeks ago, and not one mention of the numerous faults that are known. Why? Because they want the 70k sale. They know as soon as they have that sale the money is in the bank, and they will deal with issues as they come in.
They really don’t care, the dealer won’t pay for the fixes / recalls, VW will.
But they would lose a sale if they were open and honest about their vehicles issues / problems.
These vehicles are extortionate prices and shouldn't have these issues .
It’s as simple as that, and rant over.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

My Cali is booked in for investigation next week. I called them to see if its worth postponing my visit until they have a fix. The service department said they would look into it to see if there are any bulletins.

The reply was "I have been checking Vw bulletins available to the Volkswagen dealers for any potential information regarding leaking roof bellows however at this time there are no relevant documents available to us with regards an issue or cure".

So internally VW are not documenting this problem in any bulletins.

Phil

 

[Corradobrit]

So internally VW are not documenting this problem in any bulletins.

That would be VW officially acknowledging there is a bad batch of bellows. Too early for that.

 

[juju.smith1971]

Hi Everyone

Apologies for the delay in responding or commenting on this post as I haven’t had any notifications to say someone has mentioned it.

We have raised this with Volkswagen internally to get this sorted. We are still awaiting information on what part numbers are affected and so on.

I completely understand that this is an incredibly frustrating situation for customers and we are doing everything we can as a dealer to get ahead of this.

For anyone that has one on order with me please bare with me as I’m working incredibly hard to get the correct info.

Anyone that is our customer who is suffering with these issues please contact us if we aren’t aware of your issues.

For anyone that isn’t a customer of Breeze please also don’t hesitate to contact we will try and give as much assistance as we can.

Kind Regards
Tom

Thank you @tomdbreexe. We have an order placed via your Havant Branch.

Initially hoped for an early September delivery but received an email from VW UK beginning of July to say there would be a delay due to supply chain issues.

We have a confirmed build week 34.

Are you anticipating that there will be delays to confirmed build weeks whilst VW resolve the bellow issues? Thanks.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

That would be VW officially acknowledging there is a bad batch of bellows. Too early for that.

So in the mean time we have to go on our holidays with leaking bellows

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

So in the mean time we have to go on our holidays with leaking bellows

Sounds like it, just get one of the many pop top cover options and enjoy your holiday! Good luck.

 

[Corradobrit]

So in the mean time we have to go on our holidays with leaking bellows

Unfortunate but sums it up. Hopefully August won't be so wet. A cover or seam tape should keep you dry in the short term. Let's all hope the revised bellows is a permanent fix.

 

[ArunAlec]

I find it unbelievable that a company like VW don’t seem able to carry out a basic quality check on a component part of one of their products, before they sign it off and sell it.
Anyone designing and producing a “tent” might have ”checking for leaks” at the top of the list of checks.

 

[Trojax]

Well this weekend is certainly the time to pop the roof up and get your video and pictures

 

[Trojax]

I’ll be Honest, I don’t have any sympathy for any franchise or dealer. They know what products they sell, and most of their salesman wont mention anything about any issues that occur with their vehicles.
For example : these new bellows have Been leaking for a while by the looks of it, Its a known issue, I bought my Cali ocean 2 weeks ago, and not one mention of the numerous faults that are known. Why? Because they want the 70k sale. They know as soon as they have that sale the money is in the bank, and they will deal with issues as they come in.
They really don’t care, the dealer won’t pay for the fixes / recalls, VW will.
But they would lose a sale if they were open and honest about their vehicles issues / problems.
These vehicles are extortionate prices and shouldn't have these issues .
It’s as simple as that, and rant over.

Unfortunately this is true of any purchase we make, the sales pitch before we pay our money is always very different to after we have paid....
It's a real shame that any dealer that knows about the issues with leaks would not for warn a purchaser !!!!! and it could very easily be covered by saying the VW warranty is very good and any faults will be fixed just don't use the pop top when it rains

 

[Trojax]

As a definite statement my 2021 Blue pop top has been open all this weekend and i can only see one very very small drop of water has made its way in and nothing like the Barcode leak along the seams with the new type bellows

 

[RockinNRollin]

So unfortunately didn't get the chance to test the bellows this weekend as astonishingly managed to avoid the rain all weekend, however it was cold-ish (circa 8 degrees C) and I did notice there was no condensation whatsoever on the inside of the new style bellows, not even slightly damp (and that was with three of us in the van and only the bellows vents for ventilation!). Makes me wonder if the material is also breathable?

 

[Viktorgeorge]

As a definite statement my 2021 Blue pop top has been open all this weekend and i can only see one very very small drop of water has made its way in and nothing like the Barcode leak along the seams with the new type bellows

Similarly, by way of 'control group' comparison, I have had my early MY2023 - with the previous single colout grey bellows - up for testing all weekend in wind and heavy rain with only just two small tiny drips forming above the front lower zip line, here's one:


This is just in case any dealers want argue the new fabric leaking is 'normal'.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So unfortunately didn't get the chance to test the bellows this weekend as astonishingly managed to avoid the rain all weekend, however it was cold-ish (circa 8 degrees C) and I did notice there was no condensation whatsoever on the inside of the new style bellows, not even slightly damp (and that was with three of us in the van and only the bellows vents for ventilation!). Makes me wonder if the material is also breathable?

Yes we found this too. Couldn’t believe no condensation. Without the leaking this makes the new bellows awesome. Let’s hope they have successfully sorted the leaking!

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

Similarly, by way of 'control group' comparison, I have had my early MY2023 - with the previous single colout grey bellows - up for testing all weekend in wind and heavy rain with only just two small tiny drips forming above the front lower zip line, here's one:

View attachment 112640
This is just in case any dealers want argue the new fabric leaking is 'normal'.

Thank you, that’s a really useful comparison. Great to see the bellows working as they should. We’ve had another very cosy couple of nights downstairs, fingers crossed it won’t be too long until VW roll out a fix for the new bellows.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Thank you, that’s a really useful comparison. Great to see the bellows working as they should. We’ve had another very cosy couple of nights downstairs, fingers crossed it won’t be too long until VW roll out a fix for the new bellows.

Me too..I took delivery of MY23 at end Nov 22 but I've got the old bellows...I was in Dorset last weekend with roof up during awful wet and windy weather ..we were both kept awake by the noise of the rain...but bellows perfectly dry , so looks like the last ones fitted were fine...I reckon it wasn't an upgrade it was due to a supply issue. The only rain issue I've got is tail gate rubber seal leaking and drips of water soaking into the comfort mattress that's folded up in rear ! The only date Ive got re production of the veh was Quality Control ticket in the under bench draw dates 31/8/22.

 

[--olotation--]

I have a late may built beach tour (with the panoramic front window optioned), it was up in the rain for about 7 hours on Friday night and there wasn't any leaking from any of the seams. It was a fairly reasonable strength wind coming from the nearside so the front didn't get the worst of it.

The amount of damp/condensation was about the same friday compared to saturday when it was a dry night, save for the rain that did get in through the near side vent due to the wind.

It's a little early to declare that my bellows don't leak but they haven't yet. I think from following the threads there aren't any manual new roofs conformed to have leaked, but I think thats coming from a much smaller pool of vehicles to be able to say that it is only the ocean bellows that suffer the issue.

 

[dspuk]

Just back from Wilderness Festival where we parked up exactly alongside my sisters van. We have last years old bellows. She has the new ones. So. Same positions. Same weather.

Saturday rained all day, starting at 430am. Not especially windy.

Ours never leaked a drop.

Hers has leaks along the front and side seams. Not floods like they have had before, which is clearly wind related, but enough drips to cause water pools on the top.

I ended up having a look at both bellows as they were up and easily comparable. Obvious differences, apart from theirs having the inner, were;

- The outer material. I gave them both a careful look and a scratch test. To my eye and fingers the new weave is tighter.

- the lower stitching below the net openings front and side. The new stitching is a lot higher. Closer to the seam line. The older one is a few mm lower. From a quality control POV the new one is a lot neater.

Nothing exciting to report apart from that but an interesting comparison.

New Front

New Side

Old Front

Old Side