California or Hymer T5 Dilemma

[Groovy]

Just come back from the NEC looking at the California as this is what we had intended to buy for over six months now but we have now we have a massive curve ball in the mix having seen the T5 Hymer. WOW, what a van, it really makes the Cali appear old fashioned and basically a bit dull :!:

IMHO the Hymer is everything the Cali should be and the proof was in the pudding at the show with so many people gathered around the Hymer.

Before the show I was 90% going to by a California but I am now 10% California and 80% Hymer.

I know you are all Cali owners here and will defend it but please please go and look at a Hymer if you get the chance

 

[Looby]

Hi Groovy

Going to the NEC myself this morning and plan to have a good look over the Hymer. Did you see the bed getting put up? If you haven't might be worth taking a look at the online video showing you around the vehicle, putting the bed up and also some pretty weird stick on window blinds. It's an interesting concept wasn't too sure what I thought seeing the video but look forward to seeing the real thing. Did speak to a competitor dealer who had taken a look at it pre show and he wasn't impressed, said the stick on blinds let lots of daylight in and bed make up was flimsy and awkwardly positioned (you can roll onto your kitchen work surface apparently) that said he is a competitor and may be a bit biased :lol:

 

[James]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I3ceSjVVZ0

This one?

My man gripe with the Cali is the lack of a full size bed so any conversion that offers this, immediately interests me.

Is this is conversion you are talking about I am really not impressed. It looks fussy and that bed look flimsy.

The main selling points of the Cali have been twofold, it's an in house conversion and it's practicality. It's never trying to be the most practical camper but there is a neatness and quality to the way it converts from passenger van to camper and back. Those blinds in the Hymer are awful, if having pull down blinds in your windows is old fashioned - I am pleased to be old fashioned.

I would never defend the Cali as the best most practical conversion. However there is a design quality to the Cali that is very clever and usable. It's great that it offers a full size bed and I am only watching a video but it seems a lot of faff. Would like to see it in the flesh.

The problem is a camper will always be a compromise - you're trying to fit everything into a limited amount of space, something has to give, no matter how much these companies including VW tell you otherwise.


James

 

[Retiredron]

Like to see me and her indoors climb onto that bed :laugh2 also dose it just sit on the worktop all the time when not in use :?:
Ron.

 

[briwy]

Not for me a I'm afraid. Putting that bed into place looks a right faff and part of the appeal of the Cali for us is that we can sleep upstairs and leave downstairs intact. Her indoors wouldn't take kindly to have to get up before a cuppa goes on.

 

[Meoncoast]

At this time of year we often use our cali with roof down do not think I could on Hymer
1. fit between bed and roof
2. cook with roof down, in the Cali sit next to stove on rear seat

If it meets ones needs sure it is a nice van :?:

 

[David Eccles]

Not for me a I'm afraid. Putting that bed into place looks a right faff and part of the appeal of the Cali for us is that we can sleep upstairs and leave downstairs intact. Her indoors wouldn't take kindly to have to get up before a cuppa goes on.

I agree totally! did not really like the high bed position in Hymer (like the old bay dormobiles) I really like coming down from the bedroom to the living room! (especially in winter when its gotten all cosy down there with heater)
quite liked the flexible seating much more family friendly...but don't think core market will be families.more likely 50+ ....
myself I don't think anything quite comes close to the VW factory build and warranty from huge dealer network for even a broken catch!
But I am very interested in the next Westy models which will be Cali style pop roof - manual!

 

[RodCouncil]

Looks utter bobbins compared to a Cali, that Westfalia Joker on the other hand (if you can get over the looks and box on top) def has me thinking, just seems very expensive and lots of standard features on the cali are extras on the Joker.

 

[Freeley]

I really don't like the looks of the hymer at all the bed looks ridiculous.
The trouble is at these shows the vans look great and you don't always see the shortcomings. In the cold light of day and with time to think perhaps the OP will decide to stick with the cali?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jennydddd]

We spent today at the show, so pleased we purchased a cali last month. For us none of the conversions compared and have no regrets.

 

[Calincolnshire]

Take a look at this test between the Cali and Hymer. You will have to google translate it but it would appear the Hymer just won it . But the gist was it was down to personal choice. Lots more metal inside on show in the Hymer puts me off and no double glazing. Bed was a faff and you have to kneel to cook if the roof is not up. In the Cali you can sit down.

[urlhttp://www.promobil.de/test/vergleichstest-hymer-car-cape-town-vw-california-comfortline-nach-oben-offen-6486973.html][/url]

John

 

[Groovy]

You have also missed

Hot and cold runnning water
a proper full size double bed that does not need a topper and was very very comfortble
More of choice on base vehicle
waterproof pop up roof canvas that does not need protecting
vast choice of seating fabric and carpet and not just boring grey

I could carry on

 

[Confuserated]

Did anyone see the ford tourneo conversion? If it wasn't over 2 metres I might be quite tempted by it! Very spacious inside and quite a bit cheaper.

 

[Calincolnshire]

You have also missed

Hot and cold runnning water
a proper full size double bed that does not need a topper and was very very comfortble
More of choice on base vehicle
waterproof pop up roof canvas that does not need protecting
vast choice of seating fabric and carpet and not just boring grey

I could carry on

I guess you will be buying a Hymer then - enjoy

 

[GrannyJen]

Horses for courses.

hot and cold running water means more complications. I've had motorhomes and caravans boasting those, together with the split hoses and empty gas bottles, the hymermobile that I hired once had the biggest bed ever (and gave me the biggest bachache ever), etc. If I wanted all those things then I would not look at any vehicle based on something the size of a T5 SWB as they are clearly going to be too compromised to be worthwhile.

I wanted simplicity, something I can pack up in 5 minutes and be on the move, that I can park up in 5 minutes and be sat down with a cup of tea, that lacks complications (I hired a cali for a week and never once had to look for a manual even though I was a total stranger to it or any small campervan). I am fortunate though, most of the time I will be solo except when my two dogs accompany me.

The T5 SWB size is essential in that can get me in any carpark and down any road no matter how small,and the cali scores as it comes with a good range of accessories available for me to pick and choose just how I use it and where I use it.

Above all it has a huge dealer network available for me to get help where I need it, not something I see with other converters.There are some admirable conversions out there and I would not knock any of them but I still have nightmares about a serious interior failure to an A Class motorhome whilst on a very publicised charitable walk and having to drive from Truro to Bath to get it fixed, why I eventually opted for a cali.

 

[Andy80F]

Our trip to the motorhome show was full of trepidation with a Cali on order and the worry that one of the conversions might make us regret our decision. Though in reality only the Hymer was any real threat as we had not actually seen one and the reports were suggesting something special. It was a pleasant feeling when we left the Hymer stand, we nailed it when we ordered the Cali and the Hymer was, to us at least a bit of a dud. Nicely screwed together and looks great from the outside but that bed arrangement looked a bit daft and the cooking position spoiled it as a day van.

The ford compact conversion however was a really nice looking van and that did impress.

One thing we were going to do was to compare various insurance deals but the first one we approached said they could not give quotes at the show. Why were they there?

Andy


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[James]

Base vehicle of the Cali is a Multivan - other conversions will be the T5 van.

The Multivan is a different type of vehicle to the standard T5's.

If you want a full size bed - you could buy a Beach and get a kitchen pod. You'd also have a manual roof and blinds that magically retract from the window trim.

When a company says - our use of the T5 as a base will give you more options on the van itself...

What they mean is - we will be using a basic Transporter and you will have to pay extra for everything from fogs to cruise control. To sweeten this they describe it as 'choice'. This makes many prospective owners feel warm and fuzzy inside, we all like choice.... choice isn't so great when it's forced upon because the van is so basic, that's not really choice that's called cost. It's similar in the respect both words begin with c, however cost is very different and doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

With the Cali you are buying the whole package - the vehicle - not the conversion and it is a difference worth remembering when making your choice.



James

 

[Billtinsley]

great comment and so true candycal

 

[Tomsusie]

Having looked at all the T5 conversions at the NEC and even though some at first glance looked fantastic ideas, when you sit down and see what you get with the California you will see that it is a well thought out and simple to use vehicle.
Seems to me that you want motor home facilities instead of the California which is an everyday runaround with the abilty to stop away for weeks on end with no hassle. That is why you buy the VW California

 

[Paul1]

Owned Hymers over the years and know the high Quality of their products so was really keen to see the Cape town at Dusseldorf and was disappointed not with just the layout which I thought was too busy but mostly with the quality of the conversion. Looked at it again at the NEC show and haven't changed my mind. The roof conversion was poor, roof clamps screwed on not horizontal, sealing rubber looked like it had been cut with a Stanley knife, I could go on. The rep from Hymer admitted it was poor but said its a prototype and the others will be better ????. For me the best rival is the Westfalia Joker which for the price and high quality of fittings is a serious contender for me . Paul.

 

[Calincolnshire]

According to the German test I mentioned in my previous post there is only 50cm head space when the bottom bed is made up and the upper bed/roof lowered . Now I'm not massive but that's nearly my shoulder width so I would struggle to turn over in bed. So if you like sleeping in a letterbox then I guess it is good.
Ultimately it is personal choice as I said earlier but as the majority of people on here own a Cali and paid upto £50k for the privilege the getting an unbiased responce to the "which is better" question is unlikely. It's like asking a Manchester United supporter on the terraces of Old Trafford if he likes Chelsea. You are not going to get a particular balanced responce.

It's interesting 90% of all VW conversions use the side kitchen layout and have done for 40 years and there must be a reason for this, and I am sure there are benefits to the Hymer layout but it does not meet my needs. As I use the vehicle as a normal car I need to be able to load it up with a washing machine or flat pack etc and still seat 4 . The hymer is compromised as the seats are fixed and the 4th seat blocks the door . So anything big and still carrying passengers is impossible. The boot space is a slot between the cabinets hence Hymers range of storage solutions ( what do you do with them when you want to cook ) .
To be honest the Hymer looks a great van for 2 but sat in the Cali making a cup of tea while the kids are asleep downstairs is fantastic. The fact I can remove all the seats and its a van is useful. The fact I can move the seats and vary my load space is essential .

I am now sat in the van in France thinking I could not cope with the Hymer layout . So this is not me being a Cali snob just a side kitchen fan. I nearly bought a conversion but the discount from VW made the Cali a cheaper option and money talks.

What's right for you is important and if the Hymer ticks all the boxes go for it .

 

[2into1]

What is puzzling me is why is has taken so long for these T5 contenders to arrive (nearly 10 years) with the T6 now 'just around the corner'. Will Westfalia still be able to get t5 bodies to carry on building the (obviously excellent) Joker?

 

[maui2512]

I was mooching around the Reimo stand at the NEC and one of the sales ladies came up to me and started to chat. When I said I'd just put in an order on a Cali her face changed and she said quite rudely "why would you want to do that - they have all sorts of problems with their paintwork" and honestly she could barely even talk to me after that...
I'm glad to say, nothing I saw really made me change my mind on the Cali!

 

[pie27uk]

We also went to the show and saw nothing which compared to the real deal of a Cali. If a vw franchise had been at the show to show off the cali in comparison then the crowds would have been on the vw stand for sure.

 

[briwy]

We also went to the show and saw nothing which compared to the real deal of a Cali. If a vw franchise had been at the show to show off the cali in comparison then the crowds would have been on the vw stand for sure.

Same here, looking at the conversions it seems that by the time we added up all the options that are on the Cali as standard they are at least if not more expensive.

Best tip we got was on the Kyham stand. Connecting our Motordome awning to the roll out awning on the Cali by using figure of eights by just opening the awning slightly and fixing to the top edge.
Beats messing about with the Kador strip in the slot under the awning and gives a bit more height.