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5 seater - California or Marco Polo

J

JayBob

Messages
13
Location
Luxembourg
Vehicle
Looking to buy
Hello everyone,

new member here. I’ve borrowed a California two years ago and got bitten by the bug. I also have an MB V Class and use it as a daily driver.

I’ve now decided to get either the Cali or the MP to replace the V class - and since I’ve tried the Cali already, I rented out a 250d 4x4 Marco Polo for a weekend to compare. I’ve also been reading the forum for some time and trying to digest all the information about both. But here’s the thing - it didn’t help me chose so far - I know, I am the problem here :)

The reason for my hesitation are my specific needs - we’re five plus a large dog, and would use the 5th seat occasionally, but would only go camping with 2-4 + the dog. I wasn’t able to rent a 5 seater (neither MP, nor the Cali), so the practicality of the 5 seat version of either car is still a question mark.

And so I decided to share my findings so far and look for advice from people who may have similar needs and experience with any of these great vehicles specifically with 5 seats - would be greatly appreciated!

My needs:
1. I definitely want a campervan, and definitely with the kitchen module. So either an MP or an Ocean.
2. My oldest daughter is starting her study this year and will be home only from time to time. Still hard to imagine / adjust... I feel I need as much space as possible for 5, but probably this will be less important now.
3. We have family abroad and will travel 500-1000km one-way from time to time together (all 5 of us), with our dog. Camping trips will be mostly for me and my wife, plus the dog. Occasionally with our two sons – they’re not that keen to join us for weekend trips anymore…
4. I want a good daily driver to replace my V class. It will be our second car, and the other one is not suitable for family travel / large dog.
5. I need to have sufficient space for the dog on the floor / between the seats for when we travel in all 5 seats with luggage for 10+ hours.
6. I love weekend trips (2-3 nights) and would like to be able to do (limited) wild camping. The idea of independence from mains power is very tempting.
7. I would like to travel / camp in all seasons. Longer (5+ days) camping trips more likely in the summer than in winter.
8. I do not feel I need 4x4, but like to travel in winter and off grid (occasionally). I did not have any really bad experience with our RWD V class so far (including winter in Lapland)...
9. I would prefer a stronger engine (190-200bhp), and will definitely specify the ACC / Distronic (use it now and it works great) and LED lights.

Here are the pros and cons for Cali and MP that I’ve found so far - looking forward to any advice and first hand experience from all of you!

1. In general I really like both cars, but whereas the MP seems to have advantages for our needs “on paper”, the Cali brings a smile to my face and speaks to my soul. I also prefer the cute and practical looks of the VW to the somber / luxurious feel of the Merc. Some of the most often discussed advantages or disadvantages of both seem to be fixable with clever use or additional equipment. All in all, I would prefer the Cali, my wife the Merc, and both seem sufficient for our needs. First world problems...
2. As I expect to sleep in the van in all weather conditions, the downstairs space with the lower berth unfolded seems very important - our dog was a little squeezed downstairs during our brief Cali trip. She’s too large to have her on the bed when two people already occupy it. We’ve found the MP has noticeably more space between the bed and front seats, especially with the additional 15cm lower bed segment removed (unzipped), which still leaves a long enough bed (for us). Has anyone found a solution to this in a Cali? Dog bed on the front seats…? Sleeping upstairs even in rain / cold weather?
3. The MP can be used with the 5th seat and the rear parcel shelf in place, again with the small bed segment removed. Does anyone have good / bad experience traveling (not camping) with 5 people in the Cali?
4. The MP seems to have better ventilation and window options downstairs - the rear right hand side window can be opened - useful when sleeping downstairs at night and for better air flow when parking in warm weather. The split tailgate window is great for hot days and in daily use for boot access (first hand experience from our V class). On top of that you have the optional sunroof (which I would probably order), although I have no experience with it (our rental didn’t have it). Do people find air flow / ventilation in the Cali sufficient or problematic, especially on very hot days or when sleeping downstairs in cold or rainy weather, and with a dog breathing close by ;-) ?
5. The MP is tempting due to the factory leather seats - works great in our V class when our dog is shedding, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I would prefer not to do third party re-trims in the Cali, but I would definitely consider good seat covers from Brandrup or similar. Does anyone have any recommendations re: Cali and alcantara / seat covers with a dog?
6. The MP - according to my rough weekend test - would not last longer than 2 days without hookup, and maybe not even that with the heater, lighting and the fridge used all together. Seems solvable by low profile solar panels. Does anyone have first hand experience with those?
7. Most Calis seem to have a manual tailgate. I have the electric one in the V class and find the usability great. Very curious how do Cali owners find the manual vs electric tailgate?
8. The driver assistance options I have in my V class were not available on the rental Cali - I couldn’t compare. I like the Distronic (adaptive cruise control) very much, and use it all the time on highways or in heavy traffic (can restart the car with a flick of a lever - it makes surviving traffic jams that much easier). I understand that VW ACC switches off and needs to be reset when the car comes to a halt - can VW owners confirm? Small difference, but... I also love the adaptive LED headlights - much better night driving experience and work very well in the Merc - curious to know the experience of Cali owners with automatic road lights?
9. I like the MPs electric handbrake - really useful. But does it really get in the way in the Cali in practice?
10. I prefer California’s dash with lots of clever storage spaces, and offering easier rear access (no center console on the floor). How often is this really important in your experience - I don’t move backwards very often in our V class, but I imagine it might be more important while camping?
11. At first sight I prefer the kitchen module in the Cali - the sink is more practical and the glass in the new MP rental we had was already scratched... Any solutions to the smallish MP sink and the scratching that you’ve found practical over time? Do people actually use the built in sink often, compared to foldable washing bowls / camping facilities etc?
12. I prefer the manual folding bench in the Cali (less power consumption and simpler), although I must admit the MP’s electric one worked well in our rental and was comfortable, and on top of that offered the option to fold only one half. Does anyone have positive / negative real world experience with the bench in either Cali or the MP? Would you prefer one over the other?
13. I don’t like the chairs / table storage in the MP - but it seems easily solvable. We would not use the tray in the boot, and replace Merc’s chairs with better foldable ones. The table does not take space at all, but it is less conveniently placed then the Cali one when you want to take it out or stow it with the boot packed. The boot space in the Merc (with the camping chair stowage tray removed) seems quite generous (the rental agency we used confirmed a Porta Potti fits in the MP’s boot - they offer one for renting - we didn’t take it). We also found we can fit so much in the cupboards and drawers inside the vehicle for a weekend trip for two, that the boot was half empty empty. Question to the experienced MP campers out here (I know, wrong forum ): how much of an issue is the table / chair / boot space thing in reality when packing for longer camping trips for 2 + dog?
14. I’m in Europe and the MP is available here with the 5th seat and the 4wd together. Sounds tempting - but is it really worth it for just occasional winter trips and rare wild camping? Any 2wd Cali owners out there who have really come to regret not having a 4motion (other than peace of mind)?
15. I find the V class really quiet when cruising and it makes a difference on longer trips. The MP is a bit louder and more rattly. How do Cali owners find this in practice - is the acoustic package / double glazing essential or advisable? I don’t remember this to be a problem, but I rented the Cali long ago and have no idea if it had double glazing.

Uff. A long post, please forgive the beginner’s zeal :) Nice to meet you all, and looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks ver much,
Jeremy
 
Jeremy, I have had a Marco Polo but the older version and I now have a VW Ocean. I read your post with interest and I have to say I agree with all of your findings. For me The VW is a better and quieter drive which is important but, as you say the MP has more internal space which is important too and more ventilation options, mine had a sunroof but that option is no longer available in UK. There are indeed so many pro's and cons for both I found it was the sat nav options that played a significant part in my decision process, the MP does not have Android auto option so I could not use Google maps! I also found my MP had some rust spots and generally did not feel as well put together as the VW. Both vehicles are good, both hold their value well, the MP is a little longer which raises shipping categories on some carriers. It is a difficult decision and you have done your homework, over to you, a nice quandary.

Tom
 
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Hi, good post Jeremy, it sounds like you’ve done your research on both and know your needs. It’s a tough call but I’d look into the aftercare and commen faults with the both VW Roof corrosion and poor dealer workmanship for example, I don’t know much about the MP But I’m sure they don’t have these problems.
Happy days anyway

Billy
 
It comes down to this. When folk look at you as you drive back from Sainsbury's, do you want them to think you've just returned from an epic road trip climbing Ben Nevis, or are returning from a wife swapping night in Slough. If it's the former, get the Cali.
 
Hi, good post Jeremy, it sounds like you’ve done your research on both and know your needs. It’s a tough call but I’d look into the aftercare and commen faults with the both VW Roof corrosion and poor dealer workmanship for example, I don’t know much about the MP But I’m sure they don’t have these problems.
Happy days anyway

Billy
Unfortunately they do. Many UK owners are waiting to have the whole Fibreglass roof changed and some awaiting warranty work for corrosion on some internal parts of the roof bed mechanism. Judging by comments on the Marco Polo Forum their Dealerships are just as clueless as some VW Dealerships.
 
Wow sounds like a case of analysis paralysis! You just need to pick one and start enjoying your camping!
We’ve got a ocean with DSG and ACC and on the motorway it cruises like a dream. Very quiet and the ACC makes it very easy to drive in busy traffic. I don’t keep it on permanently ( I prefer to brake manually when in busier town traffic or in traffic jams) so I can’t specifically answer your question 8, but in my experience it stays on unless you brake manually or switch it off.
There’s a good you tube video from a bus and beyond that compared the MP and VW and both scored well in different areas. I think you just have to choose the one with the compromises you can accept more easily. Good luck
 
Incidentally, in UK, the MP is handled by the Mercedes car dealers whereas the VW is handled by VW commercial vehicles.

Tom
 
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I think a mojave Cali looks just a up market as any MB. All V class bodies are built in Spain and then converted by Westfalia (now owned by a French caravan maker) so sorry is appear negative as I think the Merc is very good but all V classes and Sprinters still rust as we found out. My opinion is you get what YOU want. Do not be influenced by others , including me, and get what suits YOU best. I honestly think both great vehicles and both have faults.
 
If you really need the 5 seats why not consider the Beach? I know you say you definitely want the kitchen unit but you could always get a slide pod. 5 seats + full kitchen inside = cramped.

If you think the need for 5 seats is only very short term get the ocean and live with the hassle for a year or two.

Ultimately go with what your gut says.
 
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We have a fifth seat and it is a pain - the bench seat has to be at the back of the rails,it has to be lifted in and out and needs 2 people and the fitting is tricky, particularly in the dark.
If you need 5 seats I would consider another option - a beach with 3 seat bench and one of the slot in kitchen units that you can fit in the boot. I regret not considering this properly before purchasing our Cali.
Reasons - much more flexible vehicle, it’s more comfortable to sleep in the roof anyway( you can get a liner if you think it will be too cold ), no lugging about a fifth seat,

I know there’s a lot of disadvantages too but that’s my thoughts
 
The 5th seat was not available for 4 motion California in UK when I was looking, I think there is an issue with the third rail?

Tom
 
The 5th seat was not available for 4 motion California in UK when I was looking, I think there is an issue with the third rail?

Tom
We have type 5 Cali 4 motion and extra seat fits,
 
The 5th seat was not available for 4 motion California in UK when I was looking, I think there is an issue with the third rail?

Tom


4 Motion Californias always used to come with just the two rails.
Apparently there is insufficient payload to take the 5th seat.
 
Even if the Merc and their dealers aren't upto speed on the model, their customer service can't be any worse than VWCV.

You have obviously never dealt with mercedes customer services / service department etc.

The cost of a MarcoPolo is down with the run of the mill Mercedes cars. Unless you've bought a G Wagon, GTR or other £150k + vehicle they will be looking down their noses at you.

At least with a vw commercial dealer they know how to fix the base vehicle. A Mercedes car dealer would not be familiar with either the van or the habitation side. I have found that using a VW dealer that does commercial & cars gets round the problem of van dealers.
 
We have type 5 Cali 4 motion and extra seat fits,
Sorry, I should clarify this, I meant the T6. Apparently the space is required for the AdBlue tank and the extra transmission gubbins thus precluding the fitting of the necessary third rail.

Tom
 
Sorry, I should clarify this, I meant the T6. Apparently the space is required for the AdBlue tank and the extra transmission gubbins thus precluding the fitting of the necessary third rail.

Tom

Thats wrong, its all to do with the weights, you can get a caravelle with Adblue & 4x4 using exactly the same rails.
 
Thats wrong, its all to do with the weights, you can get a caravelle with Adblue & 4x4 using exactly the same rails.
My mistake on the reason however I think I am still correct regarding non availability?

Tom
 
As mentioned above have you thought about a 3 seater beach and add a slide pod or vangear unit. Beach is excellent as a daily driver and good amount of space for the pooch with the lower bed down. Plus dont want to be in the situation where you get the ocean and find you don't want to cook in it
 
Two main thoughts

- the dog needing floor space is the clincher for me, I don’t know how much there is in a MP, but there’s nothing usable in a Cali with the bed made up

- I would have had 4WD, but instead specced a fifth seat (as mentioned you can’t have both) and all season tyres. Rationale that I would definitely need the fifth seat a few times a year but would probably never need 4WD. Some traction matts give you peace of mind and they take up no space at all in the boot.

I’ve taken it winter camping and skiing twice (this year to The Lecht at -15 and pretty snowy/icy and it was really good).
 
Guys, you’re great - wasn’t expecting so much feedback instantly - thanks to all of you for the useful comments!

Georgiegirl - you’re very right, this definitely is analysis paralysis :)

It all comes down to:
- I like the Cali more
- the MP seems better on paper for 5 with a dog
- we couldn’t test a 5 seater (neither Cali, nor MP) and also don’t know how canvas or alcantara seats work with dog fur (we now have leather and it is great)
- I would prefer to go with the Cali - but need to get comfortable that the 5 seat configuration can work for occasional long trips with 5

So any comments from those who have experience are very, very helpful - keep ‘em coming!

Katie Jones - very interesting to hear your experience with the 5th seat. We have 7 seats in the V-Class and the 2 middle row ones are fairly light (ca. 15kg) and not hard to put in and out. We will only need the 5th seat occasionally, and not for for camping, so I was assuming we can live with the 5th seat in “regular travel mode” (with the bench backwards), but does it compromise the luggage space very much?

Katie and LemonDrop - I really prefer the Ocean / MP compared to the Beach / Horizon - I loved the built-in kitchen and cupboards in our rentals. The primary reason to get the Cali / MP would be to drive with 4 (rarely 5) and camp with 2 (rarely 4). Important to hear in your experience the 5 seat Ocean is cramped...

Tom Rae - you can get an MP with 5 seates and 4x4 where I live, but I also think this doesn’t work with the Cali. But 4wd is not a priority for me (actually the opposite - why burn more fuel and lose on turning radius if I never had an issue in a Lapland winter with a RWD V-Class Mercedes?) - but maybe someone has bad experience with 2wd and wet campgrounds?

Jeremy
 
Two main thoughts

- the dog needing floor space is the clincher for me, I don’t know how much there is in a MP, but there’s nothing usable in a Cali with the bed made up

- I would have had 4WD, but instead specced a fifth seat (as mentioned you can’t have both) and all season tyres. Rationale that I would definitely need the fifth seat a few times a year but would probably never need 4WD. Some traction matts give you peace of mind and they take up no space at all in the boot.

I’ve taken it winter camping and skiing twice (this year to The Lecht at -15 and pretty snowy/icy and it was really good).

Thanks Aubisque, this is very useful - how does the 5th seat work for you in practice with all seats occupied? Did you need to push the bench backwards, and if you did - how was the luggage space left?
 
As mentioned above have you thought about a 3 seater beach and add a slide pod or vangear unit. Beach is excellent as a daily driver and good amount of space for the pooch with the lower bed down. Plus dont want to be in the situation where you get the ocean and find you don't want to cook in it

Thanks RobSWBeach. I cooked inside both times we rented the Cali and MP and liked it quite a bit - gives me a feeling of complete independence (also in bad weather) and the cupboards swallowed a lot of stuff and kept it organized. I considered a Beach / MPH briefly, but now my mind’s made up (at leat on this ;-)
 
Thanks Aubisque, this is very useful - how does the 5th seat work for you in practice with all seats occupied? Did you need to push the bench backwards, and if you did - how was the luggage space left?
It’s a compromise no doubt.
You have to remove the large metal boot bed support, mattress and the metal pins in the rails to get the bench to slide back enough to allow adequate foot room for all. Then you have remove the rail covers and manhandle the seat in, I can do it by myself...just...and have to be careful not to damage anything. The seat is really heavy.
It leaves a little luggage space but not much. Once done it’s fine, although bench seat passengers with short legs always find it a bit uncomfortable if feet can’t touch the floor, you end up slumping down a bit, but that’s a separate issue.

A bonus of the fifth seat is it provides a great mid mounted child seat location right between and just behind the front ones (if slid forward) , our daughter loves it for that.

Overall for the few times I do it a year it is fine, I would hate to do it every week though, so depends how often you’ll need to convert it.
I am still glad I didn’t spec 4WD and have the option, it works well for us.

On the Cali space generally, they are small vehicles and if you are doubtful there is not enough space there almost certainly isn’t in practice.
 
It’s a compromise no doubt.
You have to remove the large metal boot bed support, mattress and the metal pins in the rails to get the bench to slide back enough to allow adequate foot room for all. Then you have remove the rail covers and manhandle the seat in, I can do it by myself...just...and have to be careful not to damage anything. The seat is really heavy.
It leaves a little luggage space but not much. Once done it’s fine, although bench seat passengers with short legs always find it a bit uncomfortable if feet can’t touch the floor, you end up slumping down a bit, but that’s a separate issue.

A bonus of the fifth seat is it provides a great mid mounted child seat location right between and just behind the front ones (if slid forward) , our daughter loves it for that.

Overall for the few times I do it a year it is fine, I would hate to do it every week though, so depends how often you’ll need to convert it.
I am still glad I didn’t spec 4WD and have the option, it works well for us.

On the Cali space generally, they are small vehicles and if you are doubtful there is not enough space there almost certainly isn’t in practice.

Thanks very much Aubisque - very helpful. I need to sleep on this - from all the comments so far it sounds like the 20-25 extra centimeters in the MP might help quite a bit in the 5 seat configuration...
 
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