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T6 Ocean wheel arch bodywork repair & dealer response

ScotlandtheDave

ScotlandtheDave

ScotlandtheDave
Messages
59
Location
Alloa, Scotland
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 204
Hi everyone,


I'll try and keep this brief. Just looking for a sanity check on what I am expecting could turn into a battle :(

I was checking my t6 ocean after a wash last Dec and noticed a couple of small rust spots (not scratches) on the OSR wheel arch. I knew this was a potential problem area from other posts re sliding door, hence I picked it up. The spots were effectively pinpricks that have bubbled out. No pics taken at the time and its horrible outside so will drop some into the thread soon. I’ve also touched up the areas affected on the advice of the assessor so it might be harder to see.

The dealer franchise has changed recently, so made the call to them and had to get the assessment done at their body shop. That was all fine and said I’d hear after Christmas about it. I got no response, so chased the dealership 2 weeks ago. The chap said he’d follow up and sure enough the service manager called back. He was pleasant but the point of his call was to advise he didn’t think this would qualify as a warranty issue. He specifically mentioned the TPI (which I’d also referenced) but seemed to be suggesting this would be used as a reason not to cover the issue, if that makes sense? We’ve agreed to take the vehicle to the workshop (not the bodyshop) to discuss it further and have it looked at there.

I don’t see how rust spots (again, not scratches) there can be attributed to this TPI, which I presume is quite specific. The service manager suggested there was pictures supplied which matched my scenario but I haven’t seen them myself. I also checked door clearance and its huge – looks like a lot of room. I’ve never had to adjust the door and I don’t know if it has been done before by the previous dealer, but I think my primary reply will be if its not hitting now and its never been adjusted, then its never contacted the area and thus how could that void the warranty? In any case, if it did contact, where are the scratches? My only guess is the area has been repaired before and that repair is failing. I've seen other threads suggesting this is a can of worms too :(

I know I’m pre-empting an outcome here which isn’t helpful, but things don’t add up for me so far. I’d love to hear from anyone with relevant experience on this.



Cheers



David
 
If there was a previous repair which was painted over after the TPI change was carried out (it will be in the vehicle service record if it was) AND that was done by a main dealer (also on the record) AND the bubbling is that repair, then it’s covered under your paint warranty and the warranty that came with the repair. Why it’s always best to do this stuff at a main dealer - avoids any confusion. They will be able to check the service record.

Else it will come down to where did the bubbling come from. The paint is warranted for factory defects - which can be notoriously hard to prove. Their POV will be that you may have chipped that area in use and that is what caused the bubbling If those chips where not repaired. They should have also carried out a paint check on your last major service.

In my experience paint warranty is the hardest to prove Unless it’s an open and shut case.

Note - the dealer does not gain anything by rejecting - they get paid if it is a warranty repair so would be happy for the biz. But all paint repairs have to be approved by VW HQ with pictures supplied etc. He is likely speaking from experience and not wishing to waste anyones time.

The point about TPI as an excuse to not look at this properly is a bit confusing. AFAIK a TPI is effectively a non critical warranty fix only if the customer decides to complain (vs a legal mandatory safety fix).
 
Morning and thanks for your reply and insights. I feel the same and you make an interesting point on why they would be discouraging any claim if there is reasonable grounds for it. I also didn't know about the paint check during a major service so thats interesting too. It was major'd in July last year.

The vehicle is a 2019 reflex silver ocean and to my knowledge was the sales manager vehicle before i bought it from a main dealer. its always been serviced at the main dealer too, so hopefully that counts as a plus and indeed if there is no record of any fixes in that area that will be interesting.

i did pick up on some bits of damage on the vehicle on second inspection and got those fixed, but there was no mention of any paint or door issues (i guess why would they mention it.) As an aside there was some inexplicable damage such as the rear seat bench plastic being cracked up near where the seatbelt comes out, as if someone had tried to force the bed down onto the rear shelf, so i did form the impression that whoever owned it / used it didn't do so with meticulous care :(

Next steps is to get the vehicle in for inspection and discussion, so aiming for this Friday and will keep you updated.

Cheers
 
Hello,

Sorry for the long delay in updating this thread. I'd love to say it was good news. The inspection did take place on Friday 3rd Feb, which was not conclusive. He noted all paint readings are ok, but there are some paint runs at the door which he was unsure about. My position as iterated was that if any repainting had been done it was the factory or the dealership prior to my purchase and neither of those are my concern, so I still consider this a warranty issue.

I was promised a call back on Tues 7th, which did not materialise. I eventually got a call back after about 6 chases on Tuesday just gone so 3 weeks later. I am not very impressed so far.

They are maintaining this TPI explains the damage but the service manager is very non-committal on the chances of getting it fixed, suggesting VW might just throw the case out. I still dont understand why a technical bulletin that outlines how damage can occur or be avoided can be used as a reason not to fix a known issue. The SM remains adamant the damage is identical but i've yet to see this. Any known sources where i could get a look at this TPI? I doubt the dealership will provide it. I must get some pictures of the damage for this thread, but this is not a bubbled scratch or anything like that, this is rust bubbling through the paint.

I have to take the van in (again) for adjustment this Friday, even though i demonstrated there is ample clearance between the door and the arch already. I still dont have an outcome in writing that i can challenge if it comes to it so i think i'm going to be a bit more direct on Friday because tis case is 3 months old already and this paint claim is holding up other things i want to do with the van.

I have a feeling this is going to drag even longer, so I'm tempted to get a professional Bodyshop to independently inspect it in the meantime and provide their assessment. Is it worth it at this stage?

Many thanks for the responses already,

David
 
good shout, prompted me to grab some pics for my own records. panel was wiped with IPA so what you see here is imperfections, not dirt! Used a powerful LED to try and get the best focus on it. Two pics of the same area to start. Main damage is at pretty much 12oclock on the arch, top dead centre. That's why I noticed it as I was checking the area because of the known issue. The paint has flaked quite significantly and the touch up was on the advice of the Bodyshop inspector to help limit further damage. You can see its rusted below though.
y4mTl-KeYaN430RNbJalPuHDyGYxC0KYJgZrZxyodDtV4xg9828LzNj-SLlZaWmwYXG3lis8KK7WapYmIyVkAh3FrV980SEPtlVBCrSi5Ot9QR8llclcE-r-SQuiml-MrgICTM7OnMRHPNu7MRD4BblXwPhA3zrmlzF2oQPS0HriFA3k9q1gQ1HYRPrTaXoX59R

y4mfz4a-KRjpfmyW8VOTE_4JYG8xCs1hoh47_nAnYPU6lN6SY3v1sGFlvjepvTbaDwyHq45Z_Su2Ik52l3lu4iLLmTx_B-a6zHXhpiFTY09X9OGj2KwD21ase6Dx9Gvfo4C_91uXr83LhkLtI6KI8x_yjAQqCHCm5E_lp1S0XInHESJ2lGwixHIUmIw_s4y31yT

This is a secondary area of damage at around 10o'clock on the arch. Same process but less advanced i.e. the paint hasn't broken where its blistered.
y4mKaQZdqCq0NaA6xsdKTvqja3rN9ZR_97eQU3r2vG4OR4BGvOOm9KZjEKuCGG1gX3xKaVC6jFwO946m67nf-utuL7V8sCU2Zi0rGXnrurhQKQ5oRDlIj3ZVg4d59vNEuZFOTOm4jVnMf2K2nV9HZ174kry-m8pwLxRGjjw8dNmQrtWFCKNnQxZgKED61fFSqAM

I'd welcome your thoughts!
 
You certainly appear to have a case. Is there a plastic liner on the underside of the wheel arch? Just want to exclude the possibility of stone impacts from the underside.
If there is no external evidence of an impact from a stone etc and the paint surface is intact the only plausible explanation is the body panel was not prepped correctly prior to the paint process.
 
You certainly appear to have a case. Is there a plastic liner on the underside of the wheel arch? Just want to exclude the possibility of stone impacts from the underside.
If there is no external evidence of an impact from a stone etc and the paint surface is intact the only plausible explanation is the body panel was not prepped correctly prior to the paint process.
yes, the wheel arch liner is intact underneath. Having not seen the TPI I can't confirm what they think it matches, but I know this is not caused by surface scratches!

Google T6 Zinc inclusion, looks like it could be that and it is a well know issue.
Thank you, I will check that out in advance of Friday's meeting!
 
Google T6 Zinc inclusion, looks like it could be that and it is a well know issue.
OP's looks a little different but it would be shocking if VW hadn't done something to prevent this occurring in over 6 years
 
Does this look familiar

 
 
quick update - another visit to the garage on Friday gone to "have sliding door clearance checked"

armed with some great info from here i repeated my case that the damage could not be as a result of the sliding door, because there is no marked paint, or even clearcoat, at these locations. I mentioned corrosion inclusion and was corrected to zinc inclusion, so I know they know what it is too :)

I said i'd been in touch with PVWI about an independent paint inspection and was quite happy to pursue this to the right outcome, so the service manager said he'd submit the claim and await the outcome.

In the interim i've learnt that PVWI are wrapping up at the end of this month sadly, so they can't accommodate a report for me, which is a real shame. The thing is i don't think anyone is ready to replace them in the industry and i doubt whoever does will have the reputation they did for some time :(

I'll keep you posted.
 
I've a very similar mark or chip on my wheel arch there but at the other side,which obviously rules out the door. I assume mine is a stone chip though. 2016 ocean
 
Morning all, 2 weeks elapsed now and still pending a response from the dealer. the original warranty submission process was expected to take 10 days...

In the interim John at PVWI got in touch with me and very kindly offered an opinion on the damage, based on some photos. His assessment of the damage concluded this was zinc inclusion, evidenced by the markings left behind on the bare metal which resembled tree rings. As mentioned they are closing the business, which is a real shame. In just the short time of speaking with John and reading other comments on PVWI its clear they were extremely knowledgeable and well respected in the industry. He's not clear on who VW will engage to do future assessments, so his advice was keep at it and you should get a result eventually.

I've been over the rest of the panels with a powerful LED light looking for other signs of corrosion, but nothing cropped up, so just got to keep chasing to see what the response is. All a bit frustrating as i want to have the van detailed and ceramic coated, but no point until this is resolved!
 
hello,

another two weeks or so elapsed and the service manager called me today at 6pm. I knew it was bad news because trying to get hold of him for the last 3 months has been a chore, so to have him ring can only mean one thing.

As expected the claim has been denied as its not covered under their "3 year" warranty covering surface paint and the actual warranty covering body work somehow doesn't apply.

The news was presented as a bit of a fait accompli with various things wheeled out, The question about how a £50k+ van registered in June 2019 (so <4 months out of their warranty when i reported the issue) can be sitting rusting on my driveway today was left unanswered.

I'm quite angry right now, but it wasn't unexpected, so doing some research tonight and I'll be taking this to VW CS tomorrow.

Wish me luck
 
As someone who has had numerous sliding door issues hitting the arch the damage doesn't appear related. (Sorry not what you want to hear).

The door / arch damage is a light horizontal brushing of the clear coat and some light scratches over a size of a thumb print. This is caused by the edge of the door panel just brushing against the arch during the open / close cycle. This typically only becomes noticeable due to dirt and or feel
 
hello,

another two weeks or so elapsed and the service manager called me today at 6pm. I knew it was bad news because trying to get hold of him for the last 3 months has been a chore, so to have him ring can only mean one thing.

As expected the claim has been denied as its not covered under their "3 year" warranty covering surface paint and the actual warranty covering body work somehow doesn't apply.

The news was presented as a bit of a fait accompli with various things wheeled out, The question about how a £50k+ van registered in June 2019 (so <4 months out of their warranty when i reported the issue) can be sitting rusting on my driveway today was left unanswered.

I'm quite angry right now, but it wasn't unexpected, so doing some research tonight and I'll be taking this to VW CS tomorrow.

Wish me luck
A friend has a T6 2016 camper conversion, had the same issue just much worse, may blisters, same reply out of the 3yrs paint warranty.
In wish you luck.
 
I thought blisters like this should never happen with a galvanised van. I thought that was one of the prime selling points of Transporters - they never rust.
 
I thought blisters like this should never happen with a galvanised van. I thought that was one of the prime selling points of Transporters - they never rust.
From what I understand its contamination, and therefore a failure of the manufacturing process that is causing these problems. I don't understand VW's position here given the numbers of vehicles involved and that the anomalies are occuring under the factory paint finish. If the transporter had been imported into the US market and was demonstrating these problems there, you can bet Class Action lawsuits would be flying.
 
From what I understand its contamination, and therefore a failure of the manufacturing process that is causing these problems. I don't understand VW's position here given the numbers of vehicles involved and that the anomalies are occuring under the factory paint finish. If the transporter had been imported into the US market and was demonstrating these problems there, you can bet Class Action lawsuits would be flying.
Similar issue to the corroding roof.
 
As someone who has had numerous sliding door issues hitting the arch the damage doesn't appear related. (Sorry not what you want to hear).

The door / arch damage is a light horizontal brushing of the clear coat and some light scratches over a size of a thumb print. This is caused by the edge of the door panel just brushing against the arch during the open / close cycle. This typically only becomes noticeable due to dirt and or feel
Thanks PJM. I'd previously thought the issue was related to the sliding door because of its location, but it was just coincidence. It's lucky in a way because i only looked at the area in detail because of sliding door issues.

The opening correspondence with VW customer care has gone well. initially she tried to fob me off to the dealer saying unless the dealer supports a claim VW wouldn't! after reigning in my desire to scream I suggested she do some due diligence on the case and ring back. that was 11am, I'm still waiting.

Hell will freeze over though before I pay for a £50k+ premium vehicle to have corrosion damage repaired after 3.5 years.
 
Hopefully you will get some well deserved VW Goodwill in this case, as the company seems to have their butts pretty well covered here. The 12 year body protection only covers perforation.

Three-Year Paint warranty​

All Volkswagen passenger cars are provided with a warranty for a period of 3 years from the date of first registration against any manufacturing defects with the paintwork.

The only preconditions are:

The defect must be reported to a member of the Volkswagen Authorised Repairer network as soon as it is discovered. This must of course be within the warranty period.

The defect must not be due to external influences such as accident damage, climatic, thermal, chemical or industrial pollution, insufficient care or maintenance. This will be determined by the member of theVolkswagen Authorised Network at the time of inspection.

Body protection warranty​

All current Volkswagen vehicles are fully protected during manufacture against through corrosion for 12 years from the date of first registration.

The only preconditions are:


  • The defect must be reported to a member of the Volkswagen Authorised Repairer network as soon as it is discovered and within the warranty period.

  • The perforation must not have been caused originally by damage, neglect, insufficient care ormaintenance or by external corrosion (rusting).

  • A member of the Volkswagen Authorised Repairer network must be advised about any rusting as soon as it is found.

  • All body repairs will be carried out promptly in accordance with the manufacturer's specification and procedures, using only approved parts and materials, so the original level of anti-corrosion protection is maintained.
 
I had similar blisters at the front of the rear arch while my van was still under warranty, took it to the VW paintshop in Fife. A close examination showed that the blisters had in fact started by tiny stone chips and that was not covered by the warranty.

I had both rear quarter panels re sprayed at my cost then fitted 3M stonguard tape to those area to prevent re occurrence.

Stone chips come from other vehicles as well as your own with roads in the UK in their current condition road surfaces are covered in shrapnel, I just make sure if I see any new ones the paint chip pen is used to prevent it getting worse.
 
hey, quick update on my situation. After a bit of a false start with VW customer care, which culminated in cc agent telling me I had to take the van back to the VW dealer which had just lost the franchise for a new warranty inspection, I ended up hosting a conference call with the dealership that supported my claim and vwcc. My patience remained, but only just. This was after they had told me there was no record of extended warranty on the vehicle, which I've been paying for the last year. not very impressed.

The case was escalated and the chap at vwcc has started to gather details after calling midweek, including mentioning a paint inspection by PVWI. I was able to break news to him that PVWI are ceasing trading, so they better get their finger out and find out who they want to do these paint warranty inspections for them. He was off to do some checks and find out what alternatives they have for PVWI-type inspectors. John at PVWI didn't think there was anyone adequately qualified in the industry to take it on, so that will be a significant bone of contention if their induced delay (i reported this in Dec '22) has meant my opportunity to get a pvwi inspection done has passed. I have had John at PVWI's opinion on photos of the damage and they are certain it's zinc inclusion, but I'd be surprised if a claim would be upheld on that alone.

The chap at vwcc did mention getting this fixed under a contribution scheme where VW might end up footing most of the bill, but apparently thats at the dealership's disretion, so not sure how that will play out.

Have been promised a call back on Monday coming, so watch this space. I'll have to call the dealer anyway as the roof has started reporting error code 1000 from one of the sensors :(

Cheers
 
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