Pop top roof issue

[Glenn Blundell]

Hi, hope someone may be able to help?
We have had our California Ocean T6.1 for around 18 months from new.
Last summer I noticed that when the electric pop top roof is up for a day or two, it starts to sag slightly at the front passenger side. Once you close it and 're-open again, it is fine again for another day or so.
I took it to the dealership last year and they couldn't find the any problems and as they only had it for the day, didn't see the problem, even though I showed photos.
They said the couldn't fix it, without physically seeing it sag?
I took it to another dealership early this year and left the van with them to around a week. They said the roof was left up all that time and it didn't sag, so couldn't see any problems. The van still has over 2 years left on the warranty, so I have time to get it sorted but have little confidence that they will put it right.
Obviously it's a pain to take it to them and I have been backwards and forwards to them with other issues, since I bought the van.
Just wondered if anyone has experienced this and could offer some advice please?
Thanks very much.

 

[two-saabs]

You’re gonna get a few replies

 

[ArunAlec]

The roof can and does drop over a period of time, it automatically pumps itself up after 10, then every 5 hours (unless you turn the ignition key, then it goes back to a 10 hour check). There are lots of posts on the subject if you do a search.
Mine used to drop an inch or so then pump itself up after a day.

 

[The Saint Essex]

Mine drops sufficiently to be registered in the intermediate position (lights in roof also stop work, how I can tell it’s dropped) over a 4-6 hour period. It does have the annoying habit of then automatically re-extending in the middle of the night (the pump motor normally waking me up).

Once I get past the summer season will probably drop it in the garage to ensure there are no leaks or air in the hydraulics as surely shouldn’t drop that much in such a short period

 

[flying banana]

you have the pump valves leaking internally or a failing hydro ram. do a search up top. there is a long list of issues with 6.1 roof sag and it is not normal. i have a T6 and mine stays up with no sag for days on end with no noticeable drop. heres a 6.1 i spotted in sheffield showroom with the roof sagging on the right. don't let them tell you its within tolerance or is normal. as said,do a search, have a read and show them the forum and replies. good luck

 

[andyinluton]

you have the pump valves leaking internally or a failing hydro ram. do a search up top. there is a long list of issues with 6.1 roof sag and it is not normal.

Unfortunately it is normal for a T6.1 its not right but there are a lot of sagging one side only T6.1s

The biggest problem now is that VW don't regard its as a problem & won't carry out the necessary repair. I was one of the few lucky ones that managed to get it fixed.

Having been through the whole saga with my T6.1 the only satisfactory VW repair is a replacement pump as the problem is a none return valve in the pump not closing properly.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Unfortunately it is normal for a T6.1 its not right but there are a lot of sagging one side only T6.1s

The biggest problem now is that VW don't regard its as a problem & won't carry out the necessary repair. I was one of the few lucky ones that managed to get it fixed.

Having been through the whole saga with my T6.1 the only satisfactory VW repair is a replacement pump as the problem is a none return valve in the pump not closing properly.

Why does the 6.1 sag…?
What changed between the T6&6.1?
My T6 never sags and after a few days, it will auto adjust if needed.

 

[flying banana]

Why does the 6.1 sag…?
What changed between the T6&6.1?
My T6 never sags and after a few days, it will auto adjust if needed.

batch of new faulty pumps?

 

[andyinluton]

Why does the 6.1 sag…?
What changed between the T6&6.1?
My T6 never sags and after a few days, it will auto adjust if needed.

As flying Banana suggests, possibly a large batch of faulty pumps.
VW have changed the timings on the auto adjust to try & compensate.
I am not sure if vans produced this year still have it as a common problem?

 

[Azteccamper]

Why does the 6.1 sag…?
What changed between the T6&6.1?
My T6 never sags and after a few days, it will auto adjust if needed.

Never an issue on my T5.1 (or any T5) as far as I am aware either.

 

[IainB]

Our one sags a little on the drivers side, usually I just lower it a little then put back up. Have yet to witness any self adjustment though. Frustrating that such an expensive piece of kit has an issue such as this. Plan to get it checked out by the dealer when it goes for a service.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Touch wood during our 18 months of ownership of our t6.1 we’ve so far not had any roof sag nor middle of the night adjustments. 5 year warranty also provides a bit of peace of mind.

 

[WelshGas]

Normally hydraulic fluid volume will increase with temperature. So, on a hot day with roof up the hydraulic fluid expands, but it can't so pressure increases and over a certain level a pressure relief valve opens. Normal.
When the system cools volume reduces and so pressure reduces leading to a sag in the roof, but it should only be a few cms. 10 hrs after Ignition Off pump activates to re-pressurise the system if the pressure has dropped and every 5 hrs thereafter. Normal.

What is Abnormal is excessive Sag and failure of the pump to re-pressurise the system at timed intervals.

 

[andyinluton]

Normally hydraulic fluid volume will increase with temperature. So, on a hot day with roof up the hydraulic fluid expands, but it can't so pressure increases and over a certain level a pressure relief valve opens. Normal.
When the system cools volume reduces and so pressure reduces leading to a sag in the roof, but it should only be a few cms. 10 hrs after Ignition Off pump activates to re-pressurise the system if the pressure has dropped and every 5 hrs thereafter. Normal.

What is Abnormal is excessive Sag and failure of the pump to re-pressurise the system at timed intervals.

The T6.1 problem is nothing at all to do with temperature / volume changes. Its simply the return valve on the pump doesn't seal.

The roof sag in some cases can be seen within half an hour of the roof being put up. It tends to be one side only & always the same side on any particular van.
When mine was at its worst you would have needed to retention it every hour or so just to stop it dropping enough to cut out the roof lights.

 

[Glenn Blundell]

The roof can and does drop over a period of time, it automatically pumps itself up after 10, then every 5 hours (unless you turn the ignition key, then it goes back to a 10 hour check). There are lots of posts on the subject if you do a search.
Mine used to drop an inch or so then pump itself up after a day.

Thanks very much for your help on this, at least I now know it's nothing serious and I will probably just live with it unless it gets worse.
Much appreciated, thanks again Glenn.

 

[Glenn Blundell]

Normally hydraulic fluid volume will increase with temperature. So, on a hot day with roof up the hydraulic fluid expands, but it can't so pressure increases and over a certain level a pressure relief valve opens. Normal.
When the system cools volume reduces and so pressure reduces leading to a sag in the roof, but it should only be a few cms. 10 hrs after Ignition Off pump activates to re-pressurise the system if the pressure has dropped and every 5 hrs thereafter. Normal.

What is Abnormal is excessive Sag and failure of the pump to re-pressurise the system at timed intervals.

Thanks for your help, this is really helpful. It's now clear to me why the problem was worse in good weather and the dealership couldn't find anything wrong early this year in January.
Much appreciated, you have put my mind at rest.
Cheers Glenn.

 

[Glenn Blundell]

The T6.1 problem is nothing at all to do with temperature / volume changes. Its simply the return valve on the pump doesn't seal.

The roof sag in some cases can be seen within half an hour of the roof being put up. It tends to be one side only & always the same side on any particular van.
When mine was at its worst you would have needed to retention it every hour or so just to stop it dropping enough to cut out the roof lights.

Thanks for your help with this. Did you get the dealership to sort this, or are you having to live with it?
Mine takes up to 2 days to drop in the same side by about 5-10 mm. It's not a lot but enough for the canvas to flap a bit in the wind.
Best wishes
Glenn

 

[andyinluton]

You shouldn't have seen any sag after 2 days, the roof should have re-tensioned itself after the first 10 hours & then again after every 5. If its sagged enough in those 5 hours to be noticeable there is something wrong. Do you know if you have had the roof software update? it changed the frequency of the pretensioning & also turned off the inhibiter that stopped you putting the roof back up or down if one side had dropped too far.

Mine was sagging enough for the internal roof lights to stop working - there's a switch / sensor that automatically turns the roof lights off if its lowered to stop you leaving them on when its shut. I did eventually get VW to change the pump which fixed it 100% but it took 6 months & multiple visits.

 

[Glenn Blundell]

Our one sags a little on the drivers side, usually I just lower it a little then put back up. Have yet to witness any self adjustment though. Frustrating that such an expensive piece of kit has an issue such as this. Plan to get it checked out by the dealer when it goes for a service.

Thanks for your reply. Yes I will probably wait myself when it's next in for a service. Just surprised that both VW dealers couldn't cure it.
Best wishes.
Glenn

 

[Glenn Blundell]

You shouldn't have seen any sag after 2 days, the roof should have re-tensioned itself after the first 10 hours & then again after every 5. If its sagged enough in those 5 hours to be noticeable there is something wrong. Do you know if you have had the roof software update? it changed the frequency of the pretensioning & also turned off the inhibiter that stopped you putting the roof back up or down if one side had dropped too far.

Mine was sagging enough for the internal roof lights to stop working - there's a switch / sensor that automatically turns the roof lights off if its lowered to stop you leaving them on when its shut. I did eventually get VW to change the pump which fixed it 100% but it took 6 months & multiple visits.

Thanks very much, this is really helpful. Yes we got the roof software update few weeks after we had the van in January 2021. Not sure if they have had another one since then?
I will wait now until the service in December and try again. Just really frustrated that VW didn't have any experience of this issue, last few times I've had it in.
Thanks very much for your help.
Best wishes.
Glenn

 

[ArunAlec]

If yours is dropping 10mm a day I would say it’s going to take 2 to 3 days before the auto retensioning kicks in, and then you would need to refrain from turning the ignition key. If the dealer is just parking it up with the roof up for a week it has probably been retensioning , so they wouldn’t see a drop.
My T5.1 roof dropped a similar amount for the 6 years I owned it and never got worse. I got a bit obsessed with checking it!

 

[The Saint Essex]

You would have though it would be a simple software fix that as soon at the roof goes from up to intermediate for the pump to restart and tension the roof again. There is obviously a sensor already there as the lights go out

 

[WelshGas]

The T6.1 problem is nothing at all to do with temperature / volume changes. Its simply the return valve on the pump doesn't seal.

The roof sag in some cases can be seen within half an hour of the roof being put up. It tends to be one side only & always the same side on any particular van.
When mine was at its worst you would have needed to retention it every hour or so just to stop it dropping enough to cut out the roof lights.

Nowhere did I mention that problems on the T6.1 were related, I was just explaining the Normal function and why the pump kicks in automatically at timed intervals.

I was very careful to state that excessive Sagging and and/or failure of the pump to automatically start and correct it is a Fault. As you have stated in your case it was a faulty pump. But 10-20mm drop with significant temperature changes such as 40c by day to 20c at night is to be expected But should be automatically corrected if the system is working correctly.

 

[aileron346]

My T5.1 started to develop this problem. The auto-tensioning system worked fine. We used to tension it before going to sleep to ensure 10h of peace.

The problem did, however, gradually get worse and eventually we took it to our local van centre. I can’t remember the mileage when it was fixed - maybe around 75-80k. But they replaced some of the hydrolic system on one side and if has been perfect ever since.

I suspect a small amount of sag is okay, but you need to keep an eye on your warranty and if it gets more than ‘small’, see if you can get it repaired. It can definitely progress in some situations.

 

[Romandier]

Hi, hope someone may be able to help?
We have had our California Ocean T6.1 for around 18 months from new.
Last summer I noticed that when the electric pop top roof is up for a day or two, it starts to sag slightly at the front passenger side. Once you close it and 're-open again, it is fine again for another day or so.
I took it to the dealership last year and they couldn't find the any problems and as they only had it for the day, didn't see the problem, even though I showed photos.
They said the couldn't fix it, without physically seeing it sag?
I took it to another dealership early this year and left the van with them to around a week. They said the roof was left up all that time and it didn't sag, so couldn't see any problems. The van still has over 2 years left on the warranty, so I have time to get it sorted but have little confidence that they will put it right.
Obviously it's a pain to take it to them and I have been backwards and forwards to them with other issues, since I bought the van.
Just wondered if anyone has experienced this and could offer some advice please?
Thanks very much.

Same for us, turned out that he hydraulic pump needed changing! This after only 2 months usage from new. Hope this helps.