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Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

Just spoke to Breeze on the phone to talk through my worries.

Allegedly they've delivered 75 Oceans with the 04S bellows and 12 of those have leaked due to water ingress through single stich seams - I didn't push further as to what happened with those cases.

But I did enquire as to why not all of the 04S are leaking if by design all the bellows are the same. Response was that it was just case by case - some OK some not OK. Not sure about that one - I suspect if every 04S owner put their top up in heavy rain with driving wind overnight, many more (if not all) would leak (?).
 
Thanks for the update @tjeffery1

Those figures are very interesting and saddening. A 16% failure rate:(

And yes, the big unknown is how many of the 63 without reported leaks have yet to be exposed to rainy conditions.

I don't think it is just heavy rain with driving wind either. Even modest rainfall with light winds blowing the rain onto the bellows surface caused leaks in my case.

I am sure Adrian is going to be busy next week when he returns from leave.
 
This revelation I find quite shocking! I've had my Cali since 2008, and - although I admit to carelessly trapping and splitting (and easily repairing) the pop-up canvas occasionally - there has NEVER been a leak. Why do they change the fabric and construction when the old method worked perfectly?
My 2008 callie's bellows don't leak, but this weekend we caught it badly in the mechanism, hard gust of wind and breakage of the bungee, and although I'll repair with elephant tape I think I will need to replace them.
Looking at using my VW centre in Poole as it's not something I can do but I am wincing at the price and will the new ones be leaky?
 
Thanks everyone.

Breeze is only an hour from me so it isn't a massive slog to get to. Exactly, we're still on the fence about what to do. Part of us thinks just to yolo and use a cali topper if it does leak and delve into it again when version 5/6/7 comes about.

But then the logical side of the brain thinks...hang on...£70k+ on a van...it's got to be perfect (or at the very least, fit for purpose!).

Did you discuss with your dealer about self application of aqua tex?
Much as you’d think £70k would get the perfect van, it probably won’t sadly. Another van for a similar price would likely have other problems or at least things you really don’t like.

We are currently in the 30 day period and haven’t had a chance to test in rain yet. Maybe this weekend? For once I actually want to get a drenching.

In the end for us it’s about how likely it is that VW will solve this issue under warranty. At the moment we are optimistic and prepared to use a cover in the meantime.

We’ve wanted a Cali for years and have never found anything better for us, though we have looked at loads, so maybe that’s why we are keeping the faith.

It helps we are with Breeze Poole too! Plus that there are only the two of us. If I had to use the pop top for kids etc I might think differently…

By the way, we fully support the idea of VW approving application of Fabsil or Aqua Tex. Hopefully they’ll make what looks like a no loss common sense decision.
 
Just spoke to Breeze on the phone to talk through my worries.

Allegedly they've delivered 75 Oceans with the 04S bellows and 12 of those have leaked due to water ingress through single stich seams - I didn't push further as to what happened with those cases.

But I did enquire as to why not all of the 04S are leaking if by design all the bellows are the same. Response was that it was just case by case - some OK some not OK. Not sure about that one - I suspect if every 04S owner put their top up in heavy rain with driving wind overnight, many more (if not all) would leak (?).

Don't let this spoil the moment and enjoy your handover and van which hopefully wont have any issues?

Your reassurance if they do happen to leak (test with a hosepipe set up on a ladder in front of Cali with a constant mist - or try out at home in rain conditions also) before you even go travelling is:

1. Its not just you and VW and a very supportive dealer knows about it and we would like to think that a fix is eventually found - it cant be that hard - they have had years of non leaking bellows experience to fall back on so its not like they are trying to achieve the impossible?
2. There are various routes that this issue is finding its way back to VW and I'm sure its not a problem they want either?
3. We know from others that there is a solution inside a spray can - just whether you wish to use without the blessing from your dealer.
4.There is the practicality of just using a Cali topper or some sort of widely available thermal wrap that a lot of people use when its a bit chilly too. I've used a topper / wrap on my version OS2 (current 2022 Cali) when its wet/cold well before bellows-gate - not because i thought it was going to leak but generally in the wet to keep the worst off so when I put the roof down it wasn't soaking - just my topper / wrap was or to keep it warmer up in that loft space on those chilly nights.

Although I understand that for an expensive new vehicle this shouldn't happen but the fact is it has and one should look to work around any issue to still enjoy their van in the meantime. No one went out of their way to design a roof that's failed & Its not as if a part is faulty so you can no longer drive or operate something, and the fix aside from a having a fit for purpose bellows is very achievable and simple to apply.

We don't know the origins of why the Bellows were re designed at the 11th hour of the T6.1 dynasty - was it an initially trial for the new concept Cali or was it something more tragic like the factory that made them no longer exists if it was a Ukrainian supplier? This could be a first world problem and we must be mindful of that?

This will all get sorted in the end and if all 70 vans from Breeze leak after being used in the wet then there is likely to be 70 complaints back to VW - no one is going to accept it - but what you can do is still enjoy all the other benefits of using your Cali this summer and enjoying the experience having a contingency in place to prevent seepage.

If I get a leak in mine which should be arriving in June I will report but initially may wait to take up the opportunity of a replacement until we know more. Either way I am confident that Breeze will support me with their renowned excellent customer service that I have heard about and received so far and the outcome will ultimately turn out ok for anyone effected by this issue.

FYI Im with Breeze, Poole Too and Jamie/Tom have been great so far & would recommend them to others.
 
They must be well down on sales numbers then in the past few months.
Or the micro climate in Crawley has a self healing effect on 04S bellows.
I think it's definitely the latter. Either that or all the carbon emissions deposited by Easyjet aircraft as they depart Gatwick is adding an extra layer of protection.
 
Don't let this spoil the moment and enjoy your handover and van which hopefully wont have any issues?

Your reassurance if they do happen to leak (test with a hosepipe set up on a ladder in front of Cali with a constant mist - or try out at home in rain conditions also) before you even go travelling is:

1. Its not just you and VW and a very supportive dealer knows about it and we would like to think that a fix is eventually found - it cant be that hard - they have had years of non leaking bellows experience to fall back on so its not like they are trying to achieve the impossible?
2. There are various routes that this issue is finding its way back to VW and I'm sure its not a problem they want either?
3. We know from others that there is a solution inside a spray can - just whether you wish to use without the blessing from your dealer.
4.There is the practicality of just using a Cali topper or some sort of widely available thermal wrap that a lot of people use when its a bit chilly too. I've used a topper / wrap on my version OS2 (current 2022 Cali) when its wet/cold well before bellows-gate - not because i thought it was going to leak but generally in the wet to keep the worst off so when I put the roof down it wasn't soaking - just my topper / wrap was or to keep it warmer up in that loft space on those chilly nights.

Although I understand that for an expensive new vehicle this shouldn't happen but the fact is it has and one should look to work around any issue to still enjoy their van in the meantime. No one went out of their way to design a roof that's failed & Its not as if a part is faulty so you can no longer drive or operate something, and the fix aside from a having a fit for purpose bellows is very achievable and simple to apply.

We don't know the origins of why the Bellows were re designed at the 11th hour of the T6.1 dynasty - was it an initially trial for the new concept Cali or was it something more tragic like the factory that made them no longer exists if it was a Ukrainian supplier? This could be a first world problem and we must be mindful of that?

This will all get sorted in the end and if all 70 vans from Breeze leak after being used in the wet then there is likely to be 70 complaints back to VW - no one is going to accept it - but what you can do is still enjoy all the other benefits of using your Cali this summer and enjoying the experience having a contingency in place to prevent seepage.

If I get a leak in mine which should be arriving in June I will report but initially may wait to take up the opportunity of a replacement until we know more. Either way I am confident that Breeze will support me with their renowned excellent customer service that I have heard about and received so far and the outcome will ultimately turn out ok for anyone effected by this issue.

FYI Im with Breeze, Poole Too and Jamie/Tom have been great so far & would recommend them to others.
Breeze work really hard to look after customers - very reassuring.

Looks like with 70 odd recent California sales they are getting some well deserved recognition :)
 
Nothing but praise for Breeze as far as I am concerned. Tom has been brilliant in supplying our Cali from the initial enquiry, through to handover and now post sales support.

The bellows problem is not of their making. They must be as fed up with Bellowsgate as we are. And possibly losing business as a result.
 
Nothing but praise for Breeze as far as I am concerned. Tom has been brilliant in supplying our Cali from the initial enquiry, through to handover and now post sales support.

The bellows problem is not of their making. They must be as fed up with Bellowsgate as we are. And possibly losing business as a result.
Totally agree :)
 
Fabsil I think is solvent based so I doubt it would be endorsed. I imagine something similar to Nikwax type spray-on stuff used for outdoor coats would be the least damaging, I'm not familiar with Aquatex though so it might be similar?

It does seem ludicrous though that if you're at the point the bellows are leaking and VW are prepared to replace them (i.e. they're effectively rubbish-in-waiting at that point), what's the harm in treating them with something?
Both Fabsil and Aquatex are solvent based. As you know, Nikwax is water based. Early on, I took the plunge and seam sealed the front seams with a water based sealant. In heavy rain, it did start to drip but not seriously . I have now applied the Fabsil seam sealant which is clearly a solvent. I’m waiting to do a serious test as soon as I can.

And I will Aquatex the front vertical seams tomorrow to compare. I spoke with the Aquatex people this pm and they confirmed they have had no reports of Aquatex reacting with Fabsil or vice versa. Interestingly, they said the best way to apply Aquatex is from the inside - spraying from the outside may trap grime in the fabric.

For those considering a Cali topper, thanks to some advice from @ArunAlec ref ropes, I can now get it in position, on my own in less than 10 minutes.
 
Sorry to add more pain to this subject but as you know I'm selling on my (leaking) 4 month old Cali to a dealer. I've spoken with the Sales Manager and he was remarkably candid - they're well aware of this issue and this is also affecting values in the used market. I'll be taking a much bigger hit on my resale than I expected looking at historic Cali resale values. For those who plan on keeping their vans for a very long time this isn't an issue. But anyone who is able to reject their vehicle should learn from my pain that if they get fed up and simply sell it on in the short term they're looking at a near 10k hit.
 
Sorry to add more pain to this subject but as you know I'm selling on my (leaking) 4 month old Cali to a dealer. I've spoken with the Sales Manager and he was remarkably candid - they're well aware of this issue and this is also affecting values in the used market. I'll be taking a much bigger hit on my resale than I expected looking at historic Cali resale values. For those who plan on keeping their vans for a very long time this isn't an issue. But anyone who is able to reject their vehicle should learn from my pain that if they get fed up and simply sell it on in the short term they're looking at a near 10k hit.
Bazza it’s his job is to maximise their profit when selling on your vehicle so it’s not exactly an unbiased view (though partially true I’m sure) :)

If you wait until the order book closes and sell it privately I don’t think you’ll lose anywhere near 10k on it. I am not seeing much of a drop-off in used values personally and when the order book closes and the enticing offers on new ones end we’re in to a completely different demand and supply situation, especially while there’s no buyable replacement. I’d still urge you to strongly consider that option rather than taking the dealer’s word for it, it still bothers me a lot that you’re going to be 10k out of pocket because VW are incompetent and I don’t even know you lol
 
I’m sure the leaking bellows don’t help but the recent finance and servicing offers, plus the fairly quick turnaround time on new vans will have also knocked the used market, especially for vans under a year old. If people’s situation allows, selling next spring may well be more favourable.
 
Bazza it’s his job is to maximise their profit when selling on your vehicle so it’s not exactly an unbiased view (though partially true I’m sure) :)

If you wait until the order book closes and sell it privately I don’t think you’ll lose anywhere near 10k on it. I am not seeing much of a drop-off in used values personally and when the order book closes and the enticing offers on new ones end we’re in to a completely different demand and supply situation, especially while there’s no buyable replacement. I’d still urge you to strongly consider that option rather than taking the dealer’s word for it, it still bothers me a lot that you’re going to be 10k out of pocket because VW are incompetent and I don’t even know you lol
Sounds logical to me.
 
Bazza it’s his job is to maximise their profit when selling on your vehicle so it’s not exactly an unbiased view (though partially true I’m sure) :)

If you wait until the order book closes and sell it privately I don’t think you’ll lose anywhere near 10k on it. I am not seeing much of a drop-off in used values personally and when the order book closes and the enticing offers on new ones end we’re in to a completely different demand and supply situation, especially while there’s no buyable replacement. I’d still urge you to strongly consider that option rather than taking the dealer’s word for it, it still bothers me a lot that you’re going to be 10k out of pocket because VW are incompetent and I don’t even know you lol
You're right but it's also backed up with what I'm seeing and I know a lot of people in the trade. My drop will actually be just below £9k and I'm factoring in 1k for the tracker fitted with the advance subscription. So say 8k on purchase price, I would probably only lose around 5k if I got top dollar selling it privately now. I know this is anecdotal but only 2 dealers would even bid on it and the other 8 or 9 simply wouldn't offer on it. Do appreciate the tip, and if I did sell privately I would have to be totally honest if the buyer asked if it leaked as I'd not think it fair otherwise, that may well hinder a private sale !!!!!!!
 
You're right but it's also backed up with what I'm seeing and I know a lot of people in the trade. My drop will actually be just below £9k and I'm factoring in 1k for the tracker fitted with the advance subscription. So say 8k on purchase price, I would probably only lose around 5k if I got top dollar selling it privately now. I know this is anecdotal but only 2 dealers would even bid on it and the other 8 or 9 simply wouldn't offer on it. Do appreciate the tip, and if I did sell privately I would have to be totally honest if the buyer asked if it leaked as I'd not think it fair otherwise, that may well hinder a private sale !!!!!!!
£8k drop on a high value vehicle when new is available with discounts within a few weeks sounds pretty good value retention to me.
I would expect the price to start ramping back up in the next two months as summer approaches & new is no longer available. A few dry weekends with a bit of sun wouldn’t hurt either.
 
You're right but it's also backed up with what I'm seeing and I know a lot of people in the trade. My drop will actually be just below £9k and I'm factoring in 1k for the tracker fitted with the advance subscription. So say 8k on purchase price, I would probably only lose around 5k if I got top dollar selling it privately now. I know this is anecdotal but only 2 dealers would even bid on it and the other 8 or 9 simply wouldn't offer on it. Do appreciate the tip, and if I did sell privately I would have to be totally honest if the buyer asked if it leaked as I'd not think it fair otherwise, that may well hinder a private sale !!!!!!!
Things will settle down soon for sure - leaky bellows will become history, and life will be good again :)
 
£8k drop on a high value vehicle when new is available with discounts within a few weeks sounds pretty good value retention to me.
I would expect the price to start ramping back up in the next two months as summer approaches & new is no longer available. A few dry weekends with a bit of sun wouldn’t hurt either.
I agree I don't feel overly aggrieved as you also have to bear in mind that a used buyer won't benefit from 0% finance either. I suppose my point was that if I had my time again I'd have rejected it within the 30 day window and lost nothing on it.
 
I agree I don't feel overly aggrieved as you also have to bear in mind that a used buyer won't benefit from 0% finance either. I suppose my point was that if I had my time again I'd have rejected it within the 30 day window and lost nothing on it.
0% finance offer has already ended...6.9% now.

As for rejection, it all depends upon your individual circumstances.

Sounds like you have a firm plan ahead and in a short while you will be enjoying your new van :) The memory of this period will fade and be pretty much irrelevant.
 
0% finance offer has already ended...6.9% now.

As for rejection, it all depends upon your individual circumstances.

Sounds like you have a firm plan ahead and in a short while you will be enjoying your new van :) The memory of this period will fade and be pretty much irrelevant.
You're right I've also had a handful of nights away in brief ownership of the Cali and it's an amazing vehicle. Other than my leaky roof rest of the proposition is pretty much near perfect is an exceptionally well designed camper. When this issue is finally sorted you're right it will be a distant memory.

And if I look upon the depreciation as the costs for the nights away I've had in it they have only cost me a mere £1,500 a night :D:D:D
 
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