Adding a portable Lithium generator to Grand California?

[far.landscape]

Hi again folks, perhaps someone has already thought of or done this?…

To extend the “off grid” capability of the van (particularly during winter trips when I’ll get little solar and campsites in the north west close, and partly as a backup after recent experiences!), I’m thinking of getting one of these (I know there are other options of these type of things so just take this as an indicative example)…

https://www.leisureoutlet.com/off-grid-living-power/portable-outdoor-power/generators-and-power-stations/187366-goal-zero-yeti-1000x-lithium-portable-power-station-uk-spec

…and would like to be able to use it to extend the range of the leisure battery already integrated into the van.

With the way the GC is currently wired, the only way I think I could use this would be to plug it in to the hookup on the exterior of the van, which would mean leaving the “generator” outside. It would also use the inverter on the generator (to go from dc to ac) then again the inverter in the van (to go back to dc again, so < 50% efficiency!?

So I’m wondering if there would be a neat way of adding an input of some kind so the lithium battery can charge the agm battery in the van without any inverters. In a simple way, I’m thinking it could be lake an alternative to solar charging input…

I may be way off base here, dreaming, or missed a number of points!

However, has anyone done anything like this? Better ideas welcomed, but the objective is to just use a lithium battery bank to be able to both function independently as a power bank (charge laptops, cameras etc) but also charge the leisure battery in an efficient way.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi again folks, perhaps someone has already thought of or done this?…

To extend the “off grid” capability of the van (particularly during winter trips when I’ll get little solar and campsites in the north west close, and partly as a backup after recent experiences!), I’m thinking of getting one of these (I know there are other options of these type of things so just take this as an indicative example)…

https://www.leisureoutlet.com/off-grid-living-power/portable-outdoor-power/generators-and-power-stations/187366-goal-zero-yeti-1000x-lithium-portable-power-station-uk-spec

…and would like to be able to use it to extend the range of the leisure battery already integrated into the van.

With the way the GC is currently wired, the only way I think I could use this would be to plug it in to the hookup on the exterior of the van, which would mean leaving the “generator” outside. It would also use the inverter on the generator (to go from dc to ac) then again the inverter in the van (to go back to dc again, so < 50% efficiency!?

So I’m wondering if there would be a neat way of adding an input of some kind so the lithium battery can charge the agm battery in the van without any inverters. In a simple way, I’m thinking it could be lake an alternative to solar charging input…

I may be way off base here, dreaming, or missed a number of points!

However, has anyone done anything like this? Better ideas welcomed, but the objective is to just use a lithium battery bank to be able to both function independently as a power bank (charge laptops, cameras etc) but also charge the leisure battery in an efficient way.

Are you aware that Lithium batteries don't like low temperatures? Some reading.

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Lithium Batteries are the future, (keep checking back for the latest news/edits) ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

Search results for query: Lithium battery

www.t6forum.com

 

[pumpsmynads]

I’ve got a river pro I think it’s called. More bang per buck. Charges to full in a couple of hours too. 6 hours via the cigar socket.

 

[far.landscape]

Are you aware that Lithium batteries don't like low temperatures? Some reading.

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Lithium Batteries are the future, (keep checking back for the latest news/edits) ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

Search results for query: Lithium battery

www.t6forum.com

Thanks, and yes that’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t want to have it outside (alongwith the inverter issue).

Was thinking of keeping it either underneath where the shower head is kept, or in one of the lockers, and wiring from there.

My question is along the lines of how best to connect it so that it can be used to charge the AGM leisure battery, in an efficient way and without having to be stored outside.

 

[far.landscape]

I’ve got a river pro I think it’s called. More bang per buck. Charges to full in a couple of hours too. 6 hours via the cigar socket.

View attachment 83035

Thanks. And do you also use it to charge the leisure battery in the van? Or just independently?

(My question is about how to connect a power bank to the van so that it can be used to charge the leisure battery and ~ effectively double the leisure battery capacity, less about whether goal zero is better than river than jackery etc etc - unless different connections on different devices gave some other options)

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks, and yes that’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t want to have it outside (alongwith the inverter issue).

Was thinking of keeping it either underneath where the shower head is kept, or in one of the lockers, and wiring from there.

My question is along the lines of how best to connect it so that it can be used to charge the AGM leisure battery, in an efficient way and without having to be stored outside.

How about a DC to DC charger to connect both batteries. I'm no expert but I can't see connecting different battery sources would matter as long as the voltages are in the same ballpark.

 

[johnyboy]

I have the bigger version of @pumpsmynads never used it in the Cali - would assume 12v to 12v would be optimal if you needed to charge the leisure circuit from it too? A male from the battery to a leisure connected cigar socket may or may not charge? otherwise 12v to crocodile clips on the leisure battery if possible? If you plugged a hookup cable to the inverter you would be wasting energy in the conversion

 

[Mike Currie]

A 12v to 12v connection between the portable generator and the leisure battery would effectively be a battery bank. You should not mix chemistries or capacities when building a battery bank. They need to be identical.
The easiest solution would be a larger leisure battery or an additional leisure battery (same make and size) wired in parallel. I don't know if there is sufficient space for this.
If you want to use a Lithium battery portable generator then use it as the power source for an additional 12v charger connected to you existing leisure battery.
There are other more sophisticated solutions that would work but they would cause warranty issues.

 

[Simon1]

Thanks, and yes that’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t want to have it outside (alongwith the inverter issue).

Was thinking of keeping it either underneath where the shower head is kept, or in one of the lockers, and wiring from there.

My question is along the lines of how best to connect it so that it can be used to charge the AGM leisure battery, in an efficient way and without having to be stored outside.

I’ve got a power oak 2000wh power bank and although it fits in the rear cupboard next to the electric cupboard I’m concerned it might need more ventilation as the fan comes on quite frequently when under the bed, so might have to remove the cupboard door if it goes in there. Haven’t wired it in as you are thinking of doing but will probably just have it as an independent power source and have extension leads going to the front. It certainly solved our power needs off grid but found we were governed by how quickly the toilet needs emptying which is usually 3 days. The other annoying thing is on mine you have to actually go to it and turn it on to use it and off when not so it has to be where you can get to easily otherwise you’ll be fumbling around late at night trying to find the off switch in a dark cupboard.

 

[far.landscape]

How about a DC to DC charger to connect both batteries. I'm no expert but I can't see connecting different battery sources would matter as long as the voltages are in the same ballpark.

This sounds like it might be on the right lines. Thanks.

 

[far.landscape]

I have the bigger version of @pumpsmynads never used it in the Cali - would assume 12v to 12v would be optimal if you needed to charge the leisure circuit from it too? A male from the battery to a leisure connected cigar socket may or may not charge? otherwise 12v to crocodile clips on the leisure battery if possible? If you plugged a hookup cable to the inverter you would be wasting energy in the conversion

Thanks. I’ll have a look in to this.

 

[far.landscape]

A 12v to 12v connection between the portable generator and the leisure battery would effectively be a battery bank. You should not mix chemistries or capacities when building a battery bank. They need to be identical.
The easiest solution would be a larger leisure battery or an additional leisure battery (same make and size) wired in parallel. I don't know if there is sufficient space for this.
If you want to use a Lithium battery portable generator then use it as the power source for an additional 12v charger connected to you existing leisure battery.
There are other more sophisticated solutions that would work but they would cause warranty issues.

Definitely not looking to create a battery bank. Additional 12c charger is looking like the way to go. Just need to figure out cabling now…

 

[far.landscape]

I’ve got a power oak 2000wh power bank and although it fits in the rear cupboard next to the electric cupboard I’m concerned it might need more ventilation as the fan comes on quite frequently when under the bed, so might have to remove the cupboard door if it goes in there. Haven’t wired it in as you are thinking of doing but will probably just have it as an independent power source and have extension leads going to the front. It certainly solved our power needs off grid but found we were governed by how quickly the toilet needs emptying which is usually 3 days. The other annoying thing is on mine you have to actually go to it and turn it on to use it and off when not so it has to be where you can get to easily otherwise you’ll be fumbling around late at night trying to find the off switch in a dark cupboard.

Good point about heat and ventilation. Will need to look in to thermal properties.

Not so concerned about toilet and fluid, as my travel will be mostly in the highlands and there are a fair few public CDP’s and water supplies. It’s hookups that I’m assuming will be the issue once the campsites shut.

 

[April]

Hi again folks, perhaps someone has already thought of or done this?…

To extend the “off grid” capability of the van (particularly during winter trips when I’ll get little solar and campsites in the north west close, and partly as a backup after recent experiences!), I’m thinking of getting one of these (I know there are other options of these type of things so just take this as an indicative example)…

https://www.leisureoutlet.com/off-grid-living-power/portable-outdoor-power/generators-and-power-stations/187366-goal-zero-yeti-1000x-lithium-portable-power-station-uk-spec

…and would like to be able to use it to extend the range of the leisure battery already integrated into the van.

With the way the GC is currently wired, the only way I think I could use this would be to plug it in to the hookup on the exterior of the van, which would mean leaving the “generator” outside. It would also use the inverter on the generator (to go from dc to ac) then again the inverter in the van (to go back to dc again, so < 50% efficiency!?

So I’m wondering if there would be a neat way of adding an input of some kind so the lithium battery can charge the agm battery in the van without any inverters. In a simple way, I’m thinking it could be lake an alternative to solar charging input…

I may be way off base here, dreaming, or missed a number of points!

However, has anyone done anything like this? Better ideas welcomed, but the objective is to just use a lithium battery bank to be able to both function independently as a power bank (charge laptops, cameras etc) but also charge the leisure battery in an efficient way.

 

[April]

View attachment 83097

View attachment 83098

View attachment 83099

View attachment 83100

View attachment 83101

This is the system my partner did in ours
250AH deep cycle leisure battery.
3000W/6000W start up inverts feeds all the van making 240v sockets live + all other items fridge/ lights, works off remote, so don’t have to keep getting in and out of the van.
Sterling power split charger working off vans own alternator so charge button on dash also charges this battery as well as standard two supplied if needed.
No one genius smart charger and battery maintainer
Will charge battery up to 250 AH when on mains hook up.
I made hook up lead to go out back window from investor to feed van when parked up off grid, when plugged in it tops up the other two batteries as well.
If no mains available we use 2200W silent generator to charge.
Also we have the same in out other vehicle T6 and it works great

 

[ShmBK]

I have an eco flow delta 1.3kw. very useful for Nespresso and toast/bagels at the backdoor whilst children torment mum in the front. we never stay in campsites, but it will power the EHU outside and will power all sockets.

I have a 40kg delta pro with 3.6kw on order.

 

[T3Z-GB]

This is the system my partner did in ours
250AH deep cycle leisure battery.
3000W/6000W start up inverts feeds all the van making 240v sockets live + all other items fridge/ lights, works off remote, so don’t have to keep getting in and out of the van.
Sterling power split charger working off vans own alternator so charge button on dash also charges this battery as well as standard two supplied if needed.
No one genius smart charger and battery maintainer
Will charge battery up to 250 AH when on mains hook up.
I made hook up lead to go out back window from investor to feed van when parked up off grid, when plugged in it tops up the other two batteries as well.
If no mains available we use 2200W silent generator to charge.
Also we have the same in out other vehicle T6 and it works great

Hi,
Looks interesting, how/where did you rout the DC-DC charger cables from, did you perhaps take any photos of that? Be really interested to know what you had to uplift and how much effort it was.

Thanks.

 

[far.landscape]

This is the system my partner did in ours
250AH deep cycle leisure battery.
3000W/6000W start up inverts feeds all the van making 240v sockets live + all other items fridge/ lights, works off remote, so don’t have to keep getting in and out of the van.
Sterling power split charger working off vans own alternator so charge button on dash also charges this battery as well as standard two supplied if needed.
No one genius smart charger and battery maintainer
Will charge battery up to 250 AH when on mains hook up.
I made hook up lead to go out back window from investor to feed van when parked up off grid, when plugged in it tops up the other two batteries as well.
If no mains available we use 2200W silent generator to charge.
Also we have the same in out other vehicle T6 and it works great

Amazing. Very impressive.

 

[far.landscape]

Just an update / close the loop from my side...

I did get a Goal Zero 1000x. It's excellent. I understand it's not the best value option, but form factor plus a few other preference factors led me to it and it doesn't feel like badly spent money (albeit, ~1000Wh of Lithium NMC is pricy, full stop).

I'll be getting the 160w Ecoflow solar panel though - it seems much better than the equivalent (much older) Goal Zero and can't find a better option in the UK for an IP67 rated panel.

I've subsequently found I have a different electrical problem though... new post incoming...

 

[far.landscape]

I’ve got a river pro I think it’s called. More bang per buck. Charges to full in a couple of hours too. 6 hours via the cigar socket.

View attachment 83035

This unit does look excellent. It was my 2nd choice, very close, and could still argue it either way.

 

[far.landscape]

...btw, for anyone interested in what this has meant in terms of usable off-grid ability...

The additional ~1000Wh from the lithium pack now means I am able to go without hookup for 4 nights and 4 days, with the fridge running constantly, frugal but not over-constrained use of water pump and water heater, some short use of the space heater, and with minimal solar contribution (the whole time was heavily overcast and I can tell from my bluetooth battery voltage monitor that solar was only contributing for a few hours that whole time, and even then only a very small amount).

Approx half way through the 3rd day, The leisure battery was down to 12.15v under light load (from the fridge) and 12.35v with no load, so I used the hookup cable to charge from the inverter on the goal zero. This drew ~270w from the Goal Zero, and so after approx 3hrs the leisure battery on the GC was nearly full (the charge pattern had just reduced to float voltage), and the Goal Zero was down to 20% (and I didn't want to take the lithium pack lower than that).

The fact that it drew about 750Wh from the Goal Zero to "add" what was probably approx 400Wh to the Leisure battery is about what I expected, due to the loss from the inverters.

And all of the above is with no contribution from engine charging (I've posted another thread to examine whether that's a fault or not).

 

[T3Z-GB]

I’ve got a river pro I think it’s called. More bang per buck. Charges to full in a couple of hours too. 6 hours via the cigar socket.

View attachment 83035

Hi,
How do you use this and what sort of run time do you get in a complete off grid scenario please. Hiw do you charge it?
Thanks.

 

[T3Z-GB]

...btw, for anyone interested in what this has meant in terms of usable off-grid ability...

The additional ~1000Wh from the lithium pack now means I am able to go without hookup for 4 nights and 4 days, with the fridge running constantly, frugal but not over-constrained use of water pump and water heater, some short use of the space heater, and with minimal solar contribution (the whole time was heavily overcast and I can tell from my bluetooth battery voltage monitor that solar was only contributing for a few hours that whole time, and even then only a very small amount).

Approx half way through the 3rd day, The leisure battery was down to 12.15v under light load (from the fridge) and 12.35v with no load, so I used the hookup cable to charge from the inverter on the goal zero. This drew ~270w from the Goal Zero, and so after approx 3hrs the leisure battery on the GC was nearly full (the charge pattern had just reduced to float voltage), and the Goal Zero was down to 20% (and I didn't want to take the lithium pack lower than that).

The fact that it drew about 750Wh from the Goal Zero to "add" what was probably approx 400Wh to the Leisure battery is about what I expected, due to the loss from the inverters.

And all of the above is with no contribution from engine charging (I've posted another thread to examine whether that's a fault or not).

Hi,
You mention Bluetooth battery monitor, is this something you have retrofitted? If so can you please give some details?

Thanks for the update.

 

[far.landscape]

Hi,
You mention Bluetooth battery monitor, is this something you have retrofitted? If so can you please give some details?

Thanks for the update.

Yes…

QUICKLYNKS Battery Monitor BM2 Bluetooth 4.0 Device Car 12V Battery Tester Diagnostic Tool for Android iOS iPhone Digital Analyzer Battery Measurement Units https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MY1B3DY/?tag=eliteelect-21

Gives charts like this… (drain from fridge on overnight, heating on in morning, short charge from lithium generator, mixed solar while travelling, charge from hookup once home, revert to float voltage just before midnight)

 

[T3Z-GB]

Yes…

QUICKLYNKS Battery Monitor BM2 Bluetooth 4.0 Device Car 12V Battery Tester Diagnostic Tool for Android iOS iPhone Digital Analyzer Battery Measurement Units https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MY1B3DY/?tag=eliteelect-21

Gives charts like this… (drain from fridge on overnight, heating on in morning, short charge from lithium generator, mixed solar while travelling, charge from hookup once home, revert to float voltage just before midnight)

Brilliant thank you, ordered!