Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Kayleigh]

That's not an 02S, wrong colour.

@flying banana is yours an 03S or an 04S? Looks a fair bit of water there - had it accumulated gradually or fairly suddenly?

No 03S on a “T6 Ocean 204ps manual“.

 

[P600BOO]

Personally I think the 2 layer bellows is a failed design. VW should bite the bullet and come up with a T6.1 version of the triple layer bellows going into the MV Cali Concept. Although I'm curious to know what performance advantage the extra layer offers, its seams looked to be a step up from those on the T6.1, which is where our problems start and end.

The current bellows is 3 Layers, grey out side, cream inside that has been laminated to the grey with a waterproof membrane. If you look at the videos of the T7 concept, it also has a poptop that is grey outside and cream inside.

 

[RockinNRollin]

No 03S on a “T6 Ocean 204ps manual“.

Not from the factory, but unsure if @flying banana has either a replacement bellows or a newer vehicle than the one listed in their profile. The 02S on a 6.1 is very dark inside, that bellows doesn't look like that, unless that's an earlier bellows (01S?!) fitted to a T6.

Photo of the 6.1 with 02S we hired (excuse my comatose son)

 

[ArunAlec]

Where would we stand if we apply a chemical sealing agent and then can’t prove our bellows leaked?

Think you’d be on a hiding to nothing, VW would expect the dealer to provide proof prior to them approving any warranty repair/replacement.
Unless VW consider it a big enough issue to carry out one of their “technical recalls“ for a retrospective modification as they did with applying tape to the pop top edges, to stop corrosion.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Unless VW consider it a big enough issue to carry out one of their “technical recalls“ for a retrospective modification as they did with applying tape to the pop top edges, to stop corrosion.

Was that even a "recall" though, or an advice note to deal with vehicles as and when they appear in the network, as opposed to seeking them out?

 

[lohr500]

Where would we stand if we apply a chemical sealing agent and then can’t prove our bellows leaked?

That is why I have suggested to Adrian that approval to use a waterproofing agent should be on a case by case basis after the customer provides photographic evidence that their bellows leak.

I am also hoping the VW will also grant approval retrospectively to the few of us who have applied Aqua Tex or Fabsil without authorisation. After all, through our efforts and willingness to take the risk, it is looking like an interim or perhaps even longer term solution has been found.

If as has been indicated, VW are now considering giving approval to go down the waterproofing route, then I would suggest that anyone thinking of trying it waits for a few days to see what decision VW make.

 

[ArunAlec]

Was that even a "recall" though, or an advice note to deal with vehicles as and when they appear in the network, as opposed to seeking them out?

As you say wasn’t a true recall as they are for safety issues but was for an inspection at next service, so depending on your service regime could have been 2 years! In my case it was inspected and a fix was scheduled and subsequently cancelled by VW and rebooked for a workshop in Scotland (I live in Sussex) ……… I sold the Cali before it was ever fixed. Roughly 2 years between identifying issue to date for fix.
Hopefully they might treat the leaking canvas with a little more urgency!

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Personally I think the 2 layer bellows is a failed design. VW should bite the bullet and come up with a T6.1 version of the triple layer bellows going into the MV Cali Concept. Although I'm curious to know what performance advantage the extra layer offers, its seams looked to be a step up from those on the T6.1, which is where our problems start and end.

I suspect the problem may "start" with water absorbancy of the new fabric, which increases the potential for water penetration at the seams.

 

[flying banana]

That's not an 02S, wrong colour.

@flying banana is yours an 03S or an 04S? Looks a fair bit of water there - had it accumulated gradually or fairly suddenly?

It's t6 2016 8byr old original so think that makes them 02 version . It came fairly suddenly in massive bad weather. I still slept upstairs and left the roof up. Hard core. I've removed the bellows bungee today. Camped at wasdale and now all dried out.

 

[RockinNRollin]

It's t6 2016 8byr old original so think that makes them 02 version . It came fairly suddenly in massive bad weather. I still slept upstairs and left the roof up. Hard core. I've removed the bellows bungee today. Camped at wasdale and now all dried out.

I think yours is pre-02S, whatever came before that. the 02S is dark inside and out. T6 bellows I think were a much paler grey. Interesting (but expected) that even the "bombproof" earlier bellows have a breaking point.

 

[flying banana]

Not from the factory, but unsure if @flying banana has either a replacement bellows or a newer vehicle than the one listed in their profile. The 02S on a 6.1 is very dark inside, that bellows doesn't look like that, unless that's an earlier bellows (01S?!) fitted to a T6.

Photo of the 6.1 with 02S we hired (excuse my comatose son)

View attachment 121799

Daytime pic dried out.

Not from the factory, but unsure if @flying banana has either a replacement bellows or a newer vehicle than the one listed in their profile. The 02S on a 6.1 is very dark inside, that bellows doesn't look like that, unless that's an earlier bellows (01S?!) fitted to a T6.

Photo of the 6.1 with 02S we hired (excuse my comatose son)

View attachment 121799

A dry daylight pic. It's original too the van 2016 same as profile . I'd like new bellows as snicked the leaky side in scissors. But darent change them now. Bellows bungee removed

 

[stationmaster]

It's t6 2016 8byr old original so think that makes them 02 version . It came fairly suddenly in massive bad weather. I still slept upstairs and left the roof up. Hard core. I've removed the bellows bungee today. Camped at wasdale and now all dried out.

All i can say is...you may well have a lovely dry van with bellows that don't leak, but i would rather have my huge bank loan, digital dash and built in shower/roof any day.

 

[WelshGas]

Was that even a "recall" though, or an advice note to deal with vehicles as and when they appear in the network, as opposed to seeking them out?

It was a “ Workshop “ Recall. To be actioned on next Workshop visit.

 

[Corradobrit]

The current bellows is 3 Layers, grey out side, cream inside that has been laminated to the grey with a waterproof membrane. If you look at the videos of the T7 concept, it also has a poptop that is grey outside and cream inside.

That's not the info from VW who specifically say the 03S/04S is 2 layer and the MV Concept will have a 3 layer design. The seams are noticeably different and the fabric looks thicker.

 

[P600BOO]

That's not the info from VW who specifically say the 03S/04S is 2 layer and the MV Concept will have a 3 layer design. The seams are noticeably different and the fabric looks thicker.

The grey outside and cream fabric inside can't be 2 layer as the layers would be separate.
If it is 2 layer then it is fabric that is then given a laminated layer / film.
3 layer is when you have a fabric outer and a fabric inner laminated together with a waterproof / breathable membrane.

 

[RockinNRollin]

The grey outside and cream fabric inside can't be 2 layer as the layers would be separate.
If it is 2 layer then it is fabric that is then given a laminated layer / film.
3 layer is when you have a fabric outer and a fabric inner laminated together with a waterproof / breathable membrane.

The two layers are definitely laminated together somehow, I suspect there is a membrane between the two as neither material looks like it's waterproof and I think the bellows are breathable as we don't get any condensation on them, so I suppose technically they are probably 3 layer?

 

[Kayleigh]

That's not the info from VW who specifically say the 03S/04S is 2 layer and the MV Concept will have a 3 layer design. The seams are noticeably different and the fabric looks thicker.

I would be more worried about the huge wraparound window leaking on the California Concept!
Anyone going to ‘dip their toe in’ and be the first to test it?

 

[WelshGas]

I would be more worried about the huge wraparound window leaking on the California Concept!
Anyone going to ‘dip their toe in’ and be the first to test it?

No matter what the naysayers comment I'm just waiting for the Order Book to open, and if it is still a Plug-in Hybrid. I'll be going for the Petrol.
It should all be OK after the real world testing on the T6.1.

 

[Kayleigh]

No matter what the naysayers comment I'm just waiting for the Order Book to open, and if it is still a Plug-in Hybrid. I'll be going for the Petrol.
It should all be OK after the real world testing on the T6.1.

Let’s hope so!

 

[markbrown83]

I have to say I’m interested to see what the fully electric Cali is going to be like.

I do know it’s probably at least a year out but in no rush after bellowgate.

 

[WelshGas]

I have to say I’m interested to see what the fully electric Cali is going to be like.

I do know it’s probably at least a year out but in no rush after bellowgate.

The California Concept is not a full EV . That is still a long way off.

 

[markbrown83]

The California Concept is not a full EV . That is still a long way off.

Yup. I know.

Fully ev expected 2025 at earliest but I’m guessing it’ll be delayed.

 

[Kayleigh]

Yup. I know.

Fully ev expected 2025 at earliest but I’m guessing it’ll be delayed.

I thought VW were planning to make a Buzz based EV Cali, but that was shelved as it would be too heavy. Also, I haven’t heard that they plan to make a Transit based Cali.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I thought VW were planning to make a Buzz based EV Cali, but that was shelved as it would be too heavy. Also, I haven’t heard that they plan to make a Transit based Cali.

That’s my understanding too. Pretty sure a fully electric version will be way beyond 2025.

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

I would be more worried about the huge wraparound window leaking on the California Concept!
Anyone going to ‘dip their toe in’ and be the first to test it?

This is going to be the problem, anyone on this site taking delivery on a T7 will be tempted to spray their new bellows to prove to themselves they’re watertight. This will not bode well!