BBC Panorama this evening

[PhilR]

It’s a disease caught from motorists linked to an inability to read speed limit signs which most suffer from.

As a cyclist and motorist, that last statement is undeniably very true, sadly. I like to think of myself as a law abiding, courteous road user, but I cannot deny speeding, more often than I’d like to admit. Can any car driver on here honestly say they never go over any speed limit, ever? Ultimately that is dangerous.
Ultimately there are good and bad in all walks of life. It’s hard to put up with those that don’t conform or annoy us with their selfish attitudes and actions, but sadly we have to just put up with it and ignore it…….or become another Mikey….or move to the Netherlands….

 

[Amarillo]

Bicycles must be registered in Japan. I appreciate you referred to 'cyclists' but it amounts to the same thing as the registered own of the cycle is responsible for it.

In some areas, Tokyo for example, insurance is required.

Regarding "The cost to society is far greater than its value to society" do you have a source for this or did you make it up?

Little pockets in Britain require registration. Students at Cambridge University, for example.

Bicycles and boats | Cambridge students

Bicycles As a precaution against theft, all junior members of the University who have bicycles in Cambridge are required to have them marked with a number. Numbers are issued by the Colleges and should be clearly displayed, preferably on the rear mudguard.

www.cambridgestudents.cam.ac.uk

There are no penalties for riding an unregistered bike in Japan.

The “cost to society” comment was based on the reasons given for the Swiss scrapping the “Velo Vignette” in 2012. But it was posted as an opinion not a quote.

 

[sidepod]

As a cyclist and motorist, that last statement is undeniably very true, sadly. I like to think of myself as a law abiding, courteous road user, but I cannot deny speeding, more often than I’d like to admit. Can any car driver on here honestly say they never go over any speed limit, ever? Ultimately that is dangerous.
Ultimately there are good and bad in all walks of life. It’s hard to put up with those that don’t conform or annoy us with their selfish attitudes and actions, but sadly we have to just put up with it and ignore it…….or become another Mikey….or move to the Netherlands….

30 and 40 I stick to religiously (sometimes just to annoy the guy behind me off whose 1m from my bumper- the closer the slower etc). Anything above that, not interested, within reason.

At 30mph you have 20% chance of killing someone. At 40 it becomes 80%.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Safest European countries for cycling from a survey by My Protein

Where are the safest countries to cycle in Europe? | MYPROTEIN™

Where are the safest places to cycle in Europe? We compared the cycling statistics for 31 different countries to find out.

www.myprotein.com

It’s the most recent survey I can find

 

[Corradobrit]

Safest European countries for cycling from a survey by My Protein

Where are the safest countries to cycle in Europe? | MYPROTEIN™

Where are the safest places to cycle in Europe? We compared the cycling statistics for 31 different countries to find out.

www.myprotein.com

It’s the most recent survey I can find

View attachment 101490

I"m surprised Italy is so high, and that Greece is safer than Italy.

 

[Amarillo]

I"m surprised Italy is so high, and that Greece is safer than Italy.

Lots of surprises to me in that document. Switzerland and Slovenia’s extensive cycle networks, despite their mountainous terrain. But the biggest surprise is Hungary’s 22% modal share of cycling: double that of the Netherlands. I’d never have guessed.

 

[Alistair Hardy]

It’s quite easy really.
Don’t break the law and you have nothing to worry about.
People only get upset because they been caught or know deep down they commit the same or similar offences.

Mikey has raised so much awareness. He deserves a medal…

No he deserves a thick ear

 

[Amarillo]

No he deserves a thick ear

Why?

 

[GrannyJen]

Why?

Even though you don't like to hear it, and to some extent demonstrate a certain state of denial towards it, the fact is that CM and other YouTube warriors have created a large amount of antagonism towards cyclists.

I was at a real world meeting last week, a public meeting open to all, in a town with a population of over 100,000, and I was almost afraid to admit that I rode a bike such was the animosity towards people on two wheels, most of that animosity being fuelled by a perception that cyclists do not care about other road and pavement users, consider themselves above the law and go around with camera's shoving the law down other peoples throats. "Youtube tw*ts" or similar was the most used phraseology.

CM's main contribution to road safety are the bits of video evidence he sends to Met police online, not the YouTube video's he posts. They just fuel that antagonism towards cyclists, as was clearly demonstrated at that meeting.

Really, what a shameful state to be in where anyone indulging in one of the healthiest and most pleasurable recreations on the planet are treated as some form of two-wheeled vermin by a large number of people. Correcting that state should be a priority, kicking people off bikes that ride on footpaths, confiscating bikes that do not display lights at night, kicking people off that go too fast and pass too close to others using shared use spaces .... etc.

When cyclists as a whole demonstrate a respect for the law then road users as a whole might demonstrate a respect for cyclists.

 

[Amarillo]

When cyclists as a whole demonstrate a respect for the law then road users as a whole might demonstrate a respect for cyclists.

As far I I can tell, Cycling Mikey follows the law almost obsessively. Why would he deserve a thick ear for that!?

I really do not get this connection people make between the poor cycling habits of some and the poor driving habits of most.

Cycling Mikey’s own father was killed by a car driver.

 

[GrannyJen]

As far I I can tell, Cycling Mikey follows the law almost obsessively. Why would he deserve a thick ear for that!?

I really do not get this connection people make between the poor cycling habits of some and the poor driving habits of most.

Cycling Mikey’s own father was killed by a car driver.

How do you calculate that only SOME cyclists cycle poorly and MOST motorists drive poorly?

 

[Beeechke1]

Even though you don't like to hear it, and to some extent demonstrate a certain state of denial towards it, the fact is that CM and other YouTube warriors have created a large amount of antagonism towards cyclists.

I was at a real world meeting last week, a public meeting open to all, in a town with a population of over 100,000, and I was almost afraid to admit that I rode a bike such was the animosity towards people on two wheels, most of that animosity being fuelled by a perception that cyclists do not care about other road and pavement users, consider themselves above the law and go around with camera's shoving the law down other peoples throats. "Youtube tw*ts" or similar was the most used phraseology.

CM's main contribution to road safety are the bits of video evidence he sends to Met police online, not the YouTube video's he posts. They just fuel that antagonism towards cyclists, as was clearly demonstrated at that meeting.

Really, what a shameful state to be in where anyone indulging in one of the healthiest and most pleasurable recreations on the planet are treated as some form of two-wheeled vermin by a large number of people. Correcting that state should be a priority, kicking people off bikes that ride on footpaths, confiscating bikes that do not display lights at night, kicking people off that go too fast and pass too close to others using shared use spaces .... etc.

When cyclists as a whole demonstrate a respect for the law then road users as a whole might demonstrate a respect for cyclists.

So you make an interesting point: (perception that cyclists do not care about other road and pavement users) but there in also lies the the problem with perceptions As an example local to me: the council upgraded a pavement running from a housing estate to one of the local schools to encourage kids to cycle to school and reduce car congestion outside the school. Its a typical combined pedestrian/ cycle path with painted line delineation. Its also a road local cycling clubs and other road cyclists use to get out of town and into the country. Now there is Dept. for transport guidance that says cyclist should ride blow 12mph on this type of combined path and should ride on the road at speeds above 17mph this is not in the highway code and I have never seen it signposted so I would expect it to be unknown to most motorists. Most road cyclists easily exceed 17mph in favourable conditions on flat roads, so should ride on the road to protect pedestrians on the combined path but this antagonises motorists who think they are prats for not using the cycle path. I have tried both and even at speeds of 12mph on the combined path you end up having to weave around pedestrians with headphones on talking on their mobiles in the cycling lane and dog walkers with dogs on the end of 5m leads. These combined paths simply don't work and hence road cyclists learn to avoid them.

 

[GrannyJen]

Ashley Neal has one of the calmest, even-tempered channels on YouTube. He is also a cyclist and has made a couple of video's from a bicycle. I like his calm, measured take on Mikey here.

 

[GrannyJen]

So you make an interesting point: (perception that cyclists do not care about other road and pavement users) but there in also lies the the problem with perceptions As an example local to me: the council upgraded a pavement running from a housing estate to one of the local schools to encourage kids to cycle to school and reduce car congestion outside the school. Its a typical combined pedestrian/ cycle path with painted line delineation. Its also a road local cycling clubs and other road cyclists use to get out of town and into the country. Now there is Dept. for transport guidance that says cyclist should ride blow 12mph on this type of combined path and should ride on the road at speeds above 17mph this is not in the highway code and I have never seen it signposted so I would expect it to be unknown to most motorists. Most road cyclists easily exceed 17mph in favourable conditions on flat roads, so should ride on the road to protect pedestrians on the combined path but this antagonises motorists who think they are prats for not using the cycle path. I have tried both and even at speeds of 12mph on the combined path you end up having to weave around pedestrians with headphones on talking on their mobiles in the cycling lane and dog walkers with dogs on the end of 5m leads. These combined paths simply don't work and hence road cyclists learn to avoid them.

I completely agree about shared use paths. Sadly near where I live there is a 3 mile stretch of promenade that is used as a racetrack by people flying along, close-passing pedestrians with no audible warning whatsoever and at that meeting I attended this was one stretch that came up over and over again. I cycle along that stretch most weeks and see it for myself every time I cycle. A huge chunk of cycle education would not go amiss but equally the hazards posed to cyclists can make it a fraught journey.

I have to say, last year when my sister and I completed a 900 mile across Britain cycle ride the huge, vast majority of drivers were polite, courteous and gave us space. Sadly though it only takes that one in a thousand and human body meeting 2 tons of steel is only going to go one way. In all of those 900 miles there were only three go-pro clips sent to various police forces.

 

[Amarillo]

How do you calculate that only SOME cyclists cycle poorly and MOST motorists drive poorly?

Consider two offences: speeding and red light jumping.

Speeding by motorists is endemic. Nearly all drivers will break the speed limit sometime over a years driving. Many motorists will offend multiple times. (I include myself in this). Cyclists rarely break the speed limit; there are few places where they can.

Some cyclists will jump a red light over the course of a year, but nowhere close to all cyclists. Motorists too jump red lights, where they have the chance it is probably as frequent as cyclists.

It’s a similar position with the use of pavements. Some cyclists ride on pavements where it is not permitted - but nowhere near all. A great many motorists will park either fully or partially on the pavement where it is not permitted.

 

[ArunAlec]

Ashley Neal has one of the calmest, even-tempered channels on YouTube. He is also a cyclist and has made a couple of video's from a bicycle. I like his calm, measured take on Mikey here.

One of the few YouTube channels I follow.

 

[GrannyJen]

Consider two offences: speeding and red light jumping.

Speeding by motorists is endemic. Nearly all drivers will break the speed limit sometime over a years driving. Many motorists will offend multiple times. (I include myself in this). Cyclists rarely break the speed limit; there are few places where they can.

Some cyclists will jump a red light over the course of a year, but nowhere close to all cyclists. Motorists too jump red lights, where they have the chance it is probably as frequent as cyclists.

It’s a similar position with the use of pavements. Some cyclists ride on pavements where it is not permitted - but nowhere near all. A great many motorists will park either fully or partially on the pavement where it is not permitted.

Few cyclists may break a posted speed limit but I'm afraid, certainly where I walk and cycle, many many cyclists will break a socially acceptable speed limit,

 

[andyinluton]

Some cyclists will jump a red light over the course of a year, but nowhere close to all cyclists. Motorists too jump red lights, where they have the chance it is probably as frequent as cyclists.

It’s a similar position with the use of pavements. Some cyclists ride on pavements where it is not permitted - but nowhere near all. A great many motorists will park either fully or partially on the pavement where it is not permitted.

Speeding by motorists is endemic. Nearly all drivers will break the speed limit sometime over a years driving. Many motorists will offend multiple times. (I include myself in this). Cyclists rarely break the speed limit; there are few places where they can.

I would have worded it slightly differently:

A lot of cyclists ( not all) in central London completely ignore red traffic lights.

A few motorists continue through traffic lights after they have turned red, a tiny number of absolutely irresponsible motorists completely ignore Red traffic lights.

A lot of cyclists ride on the pavements, a lot of cyclists leave their bicycles on the pavements causing an obstruction.

A very few motorists drive on the pavement, some motorists park on the pavement where they shouldn't & end up getting fined for it.

As for speeding, in a car in central London it would be nice to have the chance. When sticking to the 20mph limit round Regents Park I am invariably overtaken by more cyclists than I overtake.

 

[Amarillo]

I would have worded it slightly differently:

A lot of cyclists ( not all) in central London completely ignore red traffic lights.

A few motorists continue through traffic lights after they have turned red, a tiny number of absolutely irresponsible motorists completely ignore Red traffic lights.

A lot of cyclists ride on the pavements, a lot of cyclists leave their bicycles on the pavements causing an obstruction.

A very few motorists drive on the pavement, some motorists park on the pavement where they shouldn't & end up getting fined for it.

As for speeding, in a car in central London it would be nice to have the chance. When sticking to the 20mph limit round Regents Park I am invariably overtaken by more cyclists than I overtake.

What would you say is more prevalent?
1. Lawbreaking by motorists e.g. speeding
2. Lawbreaking by cyclists e.g. jumping red lights

 

[WelshGas]

Cardiff Barrage. Speed limit 5 and 10mph.
Combined cycle pedestrian route.
It has radar speed signs. Regularly flashing On, and it's not the pedestrians.

So the comment that cyclists rarely if ever break posted speed limits is blatantly incorrect.

Likewise the 20mph limits on residential roads.

 

[GrannyJen]

What would you say is more prevalent?
1. Lawbreaking by motorists e.g. speeding
2. Lawbreaking by cyclists e.g. jumping red lights

If I take my regular 12 mile round trip into Worthing and back then it will be lawbreaking by cyclists, by an absolutely huge margin.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Yes I ride a cycle and a motorcycle and drive various 4 wheeled vehicles so can understand the sentiment from all angles.
On a cycle and a motorcycle the chances are that if you hit a car or a car hits you then at least it’s going to hurt you and not the car driver. So when we go out I always put my defensive hat on. It doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong it will be you that gets hurt unless you are a masochist that’s not a good idea as legs and collarbones take longer to heal in your 70s.
One thing I don’t understand as a cyclist why would I want to ride side by side with another cyclist unless I just wanted to be bloody minded or had a death wish. I wouldn’t ride side by side with another motorcyclist so why on a cycle?
Can anyone tell me?

 

[RodCouncil]

Yes I ride a cycle and a motorcycle and drive various 4 wheeled vehicles so can understand the sentiment from all angles.
On a cycle and a motorcycle the chances are that if you hit a car or a car hits you then at least it’s going to hurt you and not the car driver. So when we go out I always put my defensive hat on. It doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong it will be you that gets hurt unless you are a masochist that’s not a good idea as legs and collarbones take longer to heal in your 70s.
One thing I don’t understand as a cyclist why would I want to ride side by side with another cyclist unless I just wanted to be bloody minded or had a death wish. I wouldn’t ride side by side with another motorcyclist so why on a cycle?
Can anyone tell me?

It's mostly a social thing so people can chat, also it's often safer for cars to overtake a shorter and wider chain of bikes. When on smaller roads we single out but I'd say 90% of my riding is on gravel now and controversially side by side chatting and enjoying nature.

The arsehole factor is much lower here as are the speed limits so the aggression is much much less too.

Like you I use all manner of vehicles and just screw my head on when i'm in any, you cannot beat the traffic, so just chill out and take in some nice podcasts, an audio book or talk to a passenger if there is one, enjoy your life.

 

[andyinluton]

What would you say is more prevalent?
1. Lawbreaking by motorists e.g. speeding
2. Lawbreaking by cyclists e.g. jumping red lights

Central London
From my observations in the area around the office in Covent Garden by far the most lawbreaking is by Cyclists. Its unusual to see a car get much above walking pace.
It would also be an extremely unusual morning to not have at least 3 or 4 bikes go through the lights on red at the crossroads outside Holborn station whilst pedestrians are using the pelican crossings.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

It's mostly a social thing so people can chat, also it's often safer for cars to overtake a shorter and wider chain of bikes. When on smaller roads we single out but I'd say 90% of my riding is on gravel now and controversially side by side chatting and enjoying nature.

The arsehole factor is much lower here as are the speed limits so the aggression is much much less too.

Like you I use all manner of vehicles and just screw my head on when i'm in any, you cannot beat the traffic, so just chill out and take in some nice podcasts, an audio book or talk to a passenger if there is one, enjoy your life.

Oh yes I do enjoy my life and will do anything that prolongs it which includes not chatting to the Mrs when riding by her side.
If she can’t hear me riding behind her then it just has to wait.
Having a pair of ear buds listening to a podcast or music to me is a recipe for disaster.
Is this limited to 2 abreast or can you just make the rules as you ride along?