BBC Panorama this evening

[GrannyJen]

Mickey claims not to be a vigilante because he merely photographs and reports. He doesn’t arrest or mete out “justice”.

Other than the scale of the crimes reported it is no different to someone handing in dash cam footage of a bank robbery.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about Tom.

There is a world of difference between capturing a contravention on camera, carrying on and submitting it online to standing in the middle of the road like Wyatt Earp on a bike saying "Gotcha". I know what I would think as a driver, "I hope this w*nker falls of his bike in front of me"...

 

[soulstyledevon]

I don't know what the hell you are talking about Tom.

There is a world of difference between capturing a contravention on camera, carrying on and submitting it online to standing in the middle of the road like Wyatt Earp on a bike saying "Gotcha". I know what I would think as a driver, "I hope this w*nker falls of his bike in front of me"...

It’s quite easy really.
Don’t break the law and you have nothing to worry about.
People only get upset because they been caught or know deep down they commit the same or similar offences.

Mikey has raised so much awareness. He deserves a medal…

 

[GrannyJen]

It’s quite easy really.
Don’t break the law and you have nothing to worry about.
People only get upset because they been caught or know deep down they commit the same or similar offences.

Mikey has raised so much awareness. He deserves a medal…

Well I've raised awareness with at least two families so far in two months without any confrontation.,

 

[Amarillo]

Well I've raised awareness with at least two families so far in two months without any confrontation.,

Ion Nicu Onut killed three people while surfing dating sites on his phone and driving his lorry on the A1(M).

If Mikey’s actions make another such incident just a bit less likely it is worthwhile (I can’t see how it might make such an incident more likely).

By hanging around and explaining his actions to the errant motorists he helps raise the profile of what he is hoping to achieve.

 

[GrannyJen]

Ion Nicu Onut killed three people while surfing dating sites on his phone and driving his lorry on the A1(M).

If Mikey’s actions make another such incident just a bit less likely it is worthwhile (I can’t see how it might make such an incident more likely).

By hanging around and explaining his actions to the errant motorists he helps raise the profile of what he is hoping to achieve.

Yes we know Tom, and the sh!t who piled his vehicle into the rear of a family car on the A34 killing a Mother and her two children and I can produce thousands of others where accidents have been caused by people on phones, including pedestrians and cyclists.... and the two I have mentioned, your Romanian chap and the bloke on the A34 were both on sex sites so perhaps in the interests of road safety we should castrate all male truckers first .... A daft suggestion but just as daft as pretending that cyclingMikey has raised awareness outside the gaggle of angry cyclists that applaud his every video.

I bet nowt of them I mentioned have heard of cyclingMikey but I bet there are hundreds, if not thousands, who have seen him telling other to "go back" and think "F*cking cyclists" .....

We want harmony and mutual respect if we are going to drag this country out of it's backwardness towards other road users and motorists and he is doing sod all to achieve that. I had a bucket load of cyclist antagonism a week ago at a cycle awareness meeting in my local town and heard all of the crackpot suggestions such as "they should pay tax just like us" but the one thing I heard most was "riding around like some effing policeman with a camera on a bike"......

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Absolutely not condoning mobile phone use in a moving vehicle but it could be argued that modern touch screen displays such as the VW Digital Media Pro are equally distracting.

 

[GrannyJen]

Absolutely not condoning mobile phone use in a moving vehicle but it could be argued that modern touch screen displays such as the VW Digital Media Pro are equally distracting.

I quite agree. I'm guilty of fiddling with a touch screen at 70mph and screaming at myself to stop being so bloody stupid. As the screens get bigger, as that iPad sized thing in Teslas and my own ID3 family, intrude more and more so the distraction gets greater.

 

[westfalia]

Absolutely not condoning mobile phone use in a moving vehicle but it could be argued that modern touch screen displays such as the VW Digital Media Pro are equally distracting.

Just don't touch it whilst stationary in traffic in Regents park or else that
nob ed Mickey will grass you up
Once he hears that they are distracting.

 

[andyinluton]

Just don't touch it whilst stationary in traffic in Regents park or else that
nob ed Mickey will grass you up
Once he hears that they are distracting.

I sat bored for 10 mins in traffic this morning, had a play with all 12 buttons, 2 scroll wheels and 2 touchpads on the steering wheel of a car that I don't frequently drive. Was just trying to work out what they did. Its not just phones that are distracting.

 

[westfalia]

I sat bored for 10 mins in traffic this morning, had a play with all 12 buttons, 2 scroll wheels and 2 touchpads on the steering wheel of a car that I don't frequently drive. Was just trying to work out what they did. Its not just phones that are distracting.

Naughty you.
Thats as bad as drink driving, according to Mickey and his followers.
ffs, I wouldn't think that anyone on here needs wising up as to not use the phone
whilst driving, but sat in traffic..

 

[Maxx]

Caution - rant incoming.

Im genuinely nervous responding to this thread…but here goes!

So, as with many others in this thread, l’m equal parts cyclist/motorist. I’m also fairly obsessive/compulsive about my driving, and by ‘fairly’ I of course mean completely and utterly. The purpose of this paragraph was to get over that I both know and follow the rules of the road obsessively. And I honestly believe the laws and the punitive measures available are sufficient, the issue is enforcement and particularly failure to take action when people break the law with serious outcomes.

So, my experience as both a cyclist and a motorist (often in the same commute - literally park & ride!) is that there are both good and bad drivers and to the same degree, good and bad cyclist. But the volumes of these road users are unequal meaning you tend to encounter more from one cohort.

The rules of the road are not unclear or ambiguous, but too many folk either forget or disregard the rules. Of course cyclist are significantly more vulnerable on the road, but again the rules and laws [when respected] safeguard all road users from each other. Of course sometimes accidents cannot be foreseen or avoided but these appear to be in the minority these days.

I’ve unfortunately witnessed and been first on the scene of 2 fatal road collisions and another resulting in significant injury

1. Speeding Motorcyclist came off bike on corner and sadly slide directly into the path of an oncoming car, which had no opportunity to take avoiding action. Motorcyclist suffered injuries incompatible with life. 1 life lost and two families lives destroyed.

2. Cyclist (no helmet) cycling down a street when an elderly lady walked out between two parked cars. The noise of the cyclist head hitting the road will remain with me. Cyclist died of head injury. Elderly lady sustained multiple fractures and died a week or so later in hospital.
3. Cyclist (think carbon bike, Lycra, angry etc) doesn’t fancy stopping/queing at Zebra crossing, so passes cars at speed and ploughs through a mother and toddler crossing. The toddlers face and body was struck by the wheels and pedals as the cyclist road over her. Her injuries, particularly the facial injuries were significant. The cyclist failed to stop and I don’t believe was ever traced.

So my personal view is that any form of road user, as with many aspects of life…should follow the rules…but if one chooses to break the rules, one should be prepared to accept the consequence (legal or otherwise).

I have literally no sympathy or FTG to any motorist or cyclist who breaks the rules and suffers as a result. Is it really so hard to follow the rules?!

I do have sympathy for innocent victims of those who take liberty with the rules and will
always do what I can to help, both in the moment, with my camera/dashcam footage and, if necessary in the witness box.

 

[willwander]

The most shocking thing for me is that people still watch Panorama. Click bait TV.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I sat bored for 10 mins in traffic this morning, had a play with all 12 buttons, 2 scroll wheels and 2 touchpads on the steering wheel of a car that I don't frequently drive. Was just trying to work out what they did. Its not just phones that are distracting.

That’s the state of society today.
People can’t sit and be mindful for more than 2 minutes.
People feel the need to reach for a screen and scroll.

I changed that habit this year. I keep my phone in my pocket as much as possible and observe people around me and try and talk. It’s difficult, because so many people are now absorbed in their screens. But on the odd occasion, when you connect with someone, they genuinely seem interested in communicating.

 

[SamSara]

You don’t have to agree, but before writing it off as ridiculous, look at the de-humanised label given to a certain type of cyclist: “mamil”.

And there’s the research of traffic psychologist, Ian Walker:
Drivers give, on average, 8cm less space to cyclists wearing a helmet.

Want to be bike-safe? Don a wig, not a lid - BikeBiz

Earlier this year, Dr Ian Walker published research that said White Van drivers passed closer to cyclists than car drivers. The University of Bath academic has now used the same video and distance sensor technology to measure drivers' attitudes to women cyclists and cyclists wearing helmets. -...

bikebiz.com

Yes, dress like a school teacher from the ‘70’s if you like but put a wig over the top of a cycle helmet. No one wants their epitaph to be- great bloke killed after bouncing in a pot hole and hitting the kerb edge with his very delicate wee skull

 

[Corradobrit]

Dress like this while riding your bike and safe passage is guaranteed.

 

[kernnowkarmann]

I'm a road cyclist and a driver, love my bikes and my car/van.

I used to ride a lot in Cornwall before moving to Luxembourg earlier this year. The attitude towards cyclists (and I'm talking carbon/lycra as that's what I know) is pretty bad, but it is of course just a tiny percentage of drivers. If you go for a 30 mile ride you will be overtaken by hundreds of cars, but it just takes the one going past too close (and there nearly always is the one) and it scares you.

I've come off twice in 7 years, both times due to a car pulling out on me with full visibility (and I had hi viz and lights), both times the drivers were incredibly apologetic and one even gave me a lift home as my bike was broken. Accidents do happen. But I've also seen the aggression including drivers getting out of the car to confront cyclists (after they drove so close they touched them!!!)

In Cornwall a lot of roads are narrow with high hedges and also quite twisty but it never failed to amaze me how drivers would risk overtaking me towards a blind bend.

In Luxembourg I have been amazed by how courteous the drivers are and how much space they give you. Maybe it's because I've been on quieter roads with more space to overtake.

Conversely, when you drive in Luxembourg the overall standard is awful!!! Already had someone drive into the back of me at a T junction! Thankfully not in the Cali

 

[DaveB]

I live in Devon. As a road cyclist my life is threatened most days. A minority of drivers but it’s one a ride as there is so much traffic nowadays. I have F and R cameras and Devon Police have Operation Snap which is amazing. I get a result almost every submission cos I only a send the real bad ones. I don’t agree with confrontation as the driver is already ignorant, I ain’t gonna change that. One fella contacted the police asking if he could apologise to me face to face in their presence after he saw just how bad his close pass was. I feel that’s the right result. But it’s sad it’s so bad. As a kid I rode my bike 5 miles to school everyday on the main road feeling totally safe. Never occurred to me that I’d get hit by a car as the attitude to cyclists was so different. On my van I go out of my way to respect the riders, runners, horses, pedestrians, mobility scooters or tractors I encounter. I’ve never been in a situation where I can’t give up a minute or two for someone else to feel safer.

 

[BikerGran]

It is not a matter of whether a cyclist has died as a result of their own fault, but whether the cyclist has died as the result of the driver’s fault.

I was once cycling along the A20 through Lewisham with a coach behind me. My handlebar broke and I came off my bike. Fortunately the coach driver came to a stop inches from me, but it could have ended differently. Had the result been fatal it would not be reasonable to find the coach driver automatically guilty unless there is a law that drivers must leave a safe stopping distance between their vehicle and any cyclist.

Surely even without the more recent changes to the section about cyclists in the Highway Code, failing to leave a safe stopping distance between you and the vehicle in front was a no-no? And if it causes an accident then it's classed a driving without due care, or even dangerous driving (unless the vehicle in front is a cycle, it seems!)

 

[Amarillo]

Yes, dress like a school teacher from the ‘70’s if you like but put a wig over the top of a cycle helmet. No one wants their epitaph to be- great bloke killed after bouncing in a pot hole and hitting the kerb edge with his very delicate wee skull

No need to dress like a 70s school teacher. Your normal clothes are perfectly adequate.

And if helmets are so vital for mitigating risk, why do the Dutch (who hardly ever bother with helmets) have the lowest cycle accident rates in the world?

I reckon it’s because they pootle about upright on their bikes without breaking into a sweat.

Cycling for sport, BMXing, mountain biking, racing the no10 bus along the Old Kent Road, yes you probably would benefit from a helmet. Pootle to the library, or hairdresser, or for a kick about with your mates in the park, totally unnecessary.

 

[Mike Frost]

No need to dress like a 70s school teacher. Your normal clothes are perfectly adequate.

And if helmets are so vital for mitigating risk, why do the Dutch (who hardly ever bother with helmets) have the lowest cycle accident rates in the world?

I reckon it’s because they pootle about upright on their bikes without breaking into a sweat.

Cycling for sport, BMXing, mountain biking, racing the no10 bus along the Old Kent Road, yes you probably would benefit from a helmet. Pootle to the library, or hairdresser, or for a kick about with your mates in the park, totally unnecessary.

Amaryllo, as a cyclist, and RoSPA advanced qualified motorcyclist, I'm picking up your earlier point about clothes making a difference to attitude. The police manual, 'Motorcycle Roadcraft' is very specific on a certain point; don't allow the 'red mist' to take hold of you - boys in blue are just the same as us, but their instructors feel sufficiently concerned on this point to mention it more than once in the manual. So, by extrapolation, it's a facet of human nature, which we all curb and we hope, manage. However, the lamentably arrogant behaviour of MAMILs, at least here in the Surrey Hills, is a sure trigger for this phenomenon. Once it's happened a few times, people lump us streamlined ones all together, and have a correspondingly short fuse. Consequently I always cycle in day to day clothes, and am invariably treated with courtesy. Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Snowball1935]

For the last 9 years before I retired, for exercise I cycled to work year round regardless of the weather, covering about 11 miles round trip per day. I am also a motorist, and took my driving test in 1953 - some 69 years ago. I have always given consideration to ALL other users of the highway. In view of later, stricter driving tests, I did think that younger drivers would be “showing me the ropes” but, sadly, many of today’s younger drivers display appalling road manners, and much of this seems to come from a serious lack of patience.

Cyclists, along with ALL other users of the highway, have equal rights to use the roads. I do have reservations about the the authorities specifically stating that cyclists have priority over motorised vehicles, simply because this almost certainly creates some cyclists to actively show belligerence towards motor vehicles, which in many cases causes drivers to react in stupid and dangerous behaviour. Also, young cyclists can daily be seen to totally disregard proper behaviour in accordance with the Highway Code (in fact, I believe many neither understand nor care about its existence).
I have on several occasions been forced to react in order to avoid a cyclist - and sometimes a pedestrian - bringing grief upon themselves.

Regarding head cams, because the owner of such can turn his/her head so as to present an apparent line of travel contrary to that which truly exists between a motor vehicle and the wearer of the headcam, I feel that such apparatus should only be acceptable as evidence where it is rigidly attached to the mode of transport, as is the case of a dashcam fitted in a motor vehicle.

With the rise In serious incidents between drivers of motor vehicles and cyclists it became obvious that some action was necessary, but the government have IMHO lost an opportunity to emphasise to all road users that consideration for safety of others applies right across the board. A great pity.

 

[willwander]

Be careful attaching torches/headcams to your bike helmet. It’s not safe.

 

[pluc99]

The only reasonable way to do that would be to make dash cams mandatory to allow the motorist to prove no fault.

On a more controversial point, I think that I encounter fewer bad drivers because about 99% of my cycling is in everyday clothes and no helmet. My theory is that cycle specific clothing somehow dehumanises cyclists in the view of many motorists.

... or they just didn't see you

 

[PhilR]

(Copied from a similar post, I’m not typing all this again on my phone, it is distracting me from eating my breakfast)….
I’m a cyclist, I used to ride outdoors a lot, but a friend of mine got knocked off his bike and killed just over a year ago, by a driver looking at Facebook on her mobile phone. I don’t really go out any more as that accident really put me off. I’ve now got a nice indoor set up with a Wattbike and Zwift (basically gaming/racing other people in a virtual world) - there’s no road rage, animosity between different road users, bad weather, punctures etc. More importantly there’s no morons stuck to their phone screens driving vehicles. You only have to watch a few cars/vans/lorries etc passing by and you’ll see “eyes down” from someone in no time. It’s getting ridiculous now.
However……this Mikey chap, whilst his frustrations are understandable, is just making things worse in my opinion, mainly due to the way he is going about it. He is looking for, and finding (easily as I’ve said) drivers behaving badly. He ain’t going to stop that. He’s just feeding the anger towards cyclists. I’ve seen cyclists in London and a lot of them are as badly behaved as some of the car drivers. So there’s always going to be anger.
The police need to start doing something about this mobile phone usage. But they don’t/aren’t. Whilst people can get away with it they will. And they do. Thousands of them everyday. The roads are a dangerous battleground. My friend's family have been devastated by what happened. Married with two young daughters. Ripped apart - for Facebook ffs

 

[Snowball1935]

No need to make dash cams mandatory (if ever that became necessary, insurers could do that by making it conditional for obtaining insurance.)
The police/courts could easily rule that only fixed cams would be acceptable to provide evidence. It would also help to calm down people like this Mikey fellow. Antagonists on either side are not helpful - common courtesy across the board in the form of one human to another is the only sensible way to share the roads; along with common sense in how one uses them, of course.