Servicing stitch up

[Borris]

Sorry, this isn't a Cali related item but just might be soon.

Just over a year ago I purchased a three year old low mileage Skoda Superb estate for Mrs B. As with every other car I have ever owned, once any warrantee period had expired I have always serviced them myself, saving a fortune in the process. Just before Christmas I carried out an annual service on said car. On completion I successfully reset the "Oil Service Now Due" indication on the MFD and then attempted to also reset the "Inspection Service Now Due" indication but this time without success. Since then I have tried all sorts of instructions posted online and on YouTube, without success. So today as a last resort I went into our local Skoda dealer to ask them how to reset it. The service chap who dealt with my enquiry said that the only way it can be reset is on their computor and that all of their new vehicles are now the same!!!
The other reason that I went to the dealer today was to order a specific service book for this car so I can comply with the service regime detailed there in and to record completed services. One wasn't supplied with this vehicle as it has an electronic service record. According to the service chap, all service records are apparently now electronic, being entered onto the Skoda computor system. So I doubt if said service book will be forthcoming.

Obviously, vehicle manufacturers and dealers have vested interests in encouraging owners to have their vehicles serviced at their expensive hourly rates. Over the years vehicles have increasingly been designed to deliberately discourage the owner from carrying out servicing themselves. If the Skoda service chap is correct in that all Skoda vehicles now have electronic service records on their system then this is yet another attempt to put the final nail in the coffin of self servicing.

As Skoda is a member of the VAG group could VW and the California be next?

 

[GrannyJen]

BMW also. No service book, just an electronic record.

 

[WelshGas]

Not a surprise with all the kerfuffle about Emissions. A good Independant can reset the MFD as they will have access to the software required. I know on our Defender the same applied but my local Independant could update the electronic record and reset the service display. There was still a paper record but that was due to be phased out.

 

[hirsty]

99% of motorists are now neither capable of, nor motivated to, service their own car.

There are multiple issues around safety (tyres, breakdowns, brakes, lights) and environment (oil down drains, millions of Service Books printed & shipped etc) & it’s going the way of the man with a red flag I’m afraid.

Increasing reliability, sophisticated electronics, consumer expectations, domestic set-ups & changing ownership models have all contributed.

Those now in their 60’s & 70’s had to put in the effort to clean their points & check their oil daily, but also got to experience the golden age of motoring on comparatively empty roads - like everything else in life it’s now all regulated down to the lowest common denominator to accommodate the small minority of fools who spoil things for the rest of us.

 

[SimonB]

I would suggest that it is also a way of manufacturers ensuring that only they can service and maintain their vehicles. Very expensive for the small independent garages to buy the hardware and software needed to analyse and reset the modern vehicles, so the independents are slowly declining in numbers as we have to go back to the main dealers now.

 

[Bellcrew]

I would suggest that it is also a way of manufacturers ensuring that only they can service and maintain their vehicles. Very expensive for the small independent garages to buy the hardware and software needed to analyse and reset the modern vehicles, so the independents are slowly declining in numbers as we have to go back to the main dealers now.

When our cars are all powered by electric motors perhaps a "hoover man" can carry out the service on the drive.

 

[Jabberwocky]

We have three cars in our household. '07 BMW Z4, '04 Skoda Yeti and a '17 Cali.
The BMW and the Cali both have service books that can be stamped and items ticked by the dealer as what was covered in the service. The Skoda has only an electronic record held by Skoda. As far as the BMW is concerned I always have to ask for the Service Book to be stamped and signed, the Cali has not had its first service yet so we will see how that pans our and as far as the Skoda is concerned well it's as Borris said.
In light of @Borris 's comments/information above it makes it much more important to keep all those invoices, past Mot certs and the odd spare part invoice etc. in a safe place for when you need to sell your car as it at least proves that certain work was carried out as and when appropriate/required. Do we really need the dealers/manufacturers online record?
More sinister is the information that the MFD cannot be reset in respect of the inspection due date by anyone other than the dealers. This must be illegal, surely. I guess we will find out eventually.
Needless to say keep all that paperwork and insist, if you don't already, that any service books you have are stamped and upto date. It's a habit thing with me!!

 

[Borris]

I haven't just done the servicing on our older vehicles to save money but also to save time. Having the vehicle serviced in a garage involves driving to the garage and then kicking ones heels around town whilst the car sits in their yard waiting it's turn in their servicing queue. If you are lucky and they can do the job straight away it will still take several hours by the time you've got back home. However they usually take much longer and an entire day out is not uncommon.
On the other hand I can easily change the engine oil along with oil, pollen, air, and if necessary fuel filters in much less than an hour. Checks for leaks, underbody damage, exhaust system, brake components and pipework, tyres for bulges, splits and uneven wear, lighting, wipers etc and finally greasing hinges and locks etc can take another hour at most. A total of two hours tops for a straight forward simple service and all without leaving home. Any waste fluids are placed in an appropriate drum and disposed of on the next trip to the local recycling centre. The correct oil and filters etc can also be sourced at much cheaper prices from elsewhere. Emissions are checked annually during the MOT process which for me also provides another opportunity to visually inspect the underside of the vehicle along with the other aforementioned components. None of this is difficult.

I will also do other straight forward mechanical work on vehicles however there are areas of modern vehicles which don't lend themselves to DIY mechanics. These areas are best left well alone and should be carried out by a garage as only they have the specialist kit and training.

I intend to buy a VAG-COM plug in diagnostics tool when I can find one suitable for this vehicle. That will hopefully enable me to not only identify faults but cancel the service indicators as well. You can get these gadjets for less than £50 on line.

When I recieve a hefty bill (and a brief badly taken video) for something that I could easily have done myself, would have taken up less of my time and cost a fraction of the cost, DIY servicing becomes perfect sense to me for vehicles outside of the warrantee period. That is why I am annoyed by these latest attempts by vehicle manufacturers and their dealerships to make it more dificult for owners to carry out their own servicing regime.

Finally, I forgot to mention in my original post that the Skoda service chap actually said that they aren't allowed to reset service indicators unless its been serviced by Skoda!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I haven't just done the servicing on our older vehicles to save money but also to save time. Having the vehicle serviced in a garage involves driving to the garage and then kicking ones heels around town whilst the car sits in their yard waiting it's turn in their servicing queue. If you are lucky and they can do the job straight away it will still take several hours by the time you've got back home. However they usually take much longer and an entire day out is not uncommon.
On the other hand I can easily change the engine oil along with oil, pollen, air, and if necessary fuel filters in much less than an hour. Checks for leaks, underbody damage, exhaust system, brake components and pipework, tyres for bulges, splits and uneven wear, lighting, wipers etc and finally greasing hinges and locks etc can take another hour at most. A total of two hours tops for a straight forward simple service and all without leaving home. Any waste fluids are placed in an appropriate drum and disposed of on the next trip to the local recycling centre. The correct oil and filters etc can also be sourced at much cheaper prices from elsewhere. Emissions are checked annually during the MOT process which for me also provides another opportunity to visually inspect the underside of the vehicle along with the other aforementioned components. None of this is difficult.

I will also do other straight forward mechanical work on vehicles however there are areas of modern vehicles which don't lend themselves to DIY mechanics. These areas are best left well alone and should be carried out by a garage as only they have the specialist kit and training.

I intend to buy a VAG-COM plug in diagnostics tool when I can find one suitable for this vehicle. That will hopefully enable me to not only identify faults but cancel the service indicators as well. You can get these gadjets for less than £50 on line.

When I recieve a hefty bill (and a brief badly taken video) for something that I could easily have done myself, would have taken up less of my time and cost a fraction of the cost, DIY servicing becomes perfect sense to me for vehicles outside of the warrantee period. That is why I am annoyed by these latest attempts by vehicle manufacturers and their dealerships to make it more dificult for owners to carry out their own servicing regime.

Finally, I forgot to mention in my original post that the Skoda service chap actually said that they aren't allowed to reset service indicators unless its been serviced by Skoda!

Edit!! hit wrong button!
Here is what I was going to say........
Yes, I agree with all you say and and thanks for your detail. For me is particularly poignant as I used to do all my own servicing but that was in the days before ecu's etc. Having just retired (well almost) I am starting to do a bit more myself and next week will be changing some brake pads and discs (on my sons Honda Jazz) which should be relatively straight forwards. I have always been "OK" about doing the mechanical bits. Clutches, cylinder heads, water pumps, brakes (I don't like bleeding though!!), wheel bearings, king pins (on Sunbeam Stiletto) etc etc.
Your last paragraph reminds me that the last time I took the Skoda to a dealer they could not reset the inspection date as, according to them, it could only be reset by the dealer who had last serviced/inspected it (they had forgot to reset in this case). That has to be b******s surely?
When you decide which VAG-COM plug-in diagnostics tool you will buy please share info as I suspect a few others will be keen to benefit from your research. Including me!!

 

[SimonK]

Sorry, this isn't a Cali related item but just might be soon.

Just over a year ago I purchased a three year old low mileage Skoda Superb estate for Mrs B. As with every other car I have ever owned, once any warrantee period had expired I have always serviced them myself, saving a fortune in the process. Just before Christmas I carried out an annual service on said car. On completion I successfully reset the "Oil Service Now Due" indication on the MFD and then attempted to also reset the "Inspection Service Now Due" indication but this time without success. Since then I have tried all sorts of instructions posted online and on YouTube, without success. So today as a last resort I went into our local Skoda dealer to ask them how to reset it. The service chap who dealt with my enquiry said that the only way it can be reset is on their computor and that all of their new vehicles are now the same!!!
The other reason that I went to the dealer today was to order a specific service book for this car so I can comply with the service regime detailed there in and to record completed services. One wasn't supplied with this vehicle as it has an electronic service record. According to the service chap, all service records are apparently now electronic, being entered onto the Skoda computor system. So I doubt if said service book will be forthcoming.

Obviously, vehicle manufacturers and dealers have vested interests in encouraging owners to have their vehicles serviced at their expensive hourly rates. Over the years vehicles have increasingly been designed to deliberately discourage the owner from carrying out servicing themselves. If the Skoda service chap is correct in that all Skoda vehicles now have electronic service records on their system then this is yet another attempt to put the final nail in the coffin of self servicing.

As Skoda is a member of the VAG group could VW and the California be next?

We have 2 Skoda Superbs and i've another arriving in April. Both have electronic service records and we have no service book for either. I don't have a problem with this tbh.

Whenever I have self-serviced a car in the past I never worried about having a service book. As long as I kept all receipts for genuine parts etc I had no problems at resale privately.

 

[Borris]

Edit!! hit wrong button!
Here is what I was going to say........
Yes, I agree with all you say and and thanks for your detail. For me is particularly poignant as I used to do all my own servicing but that was in the days before ecu's etc. Having just retired (well almost) I am starting to do a bit more myself and next week will be changing some brake pads and discs (on my sons Honda Jazz) which should be relatively straight forwards. I have always been "OK" about doing the mechanical bits. Clutches, cylinder heads, water pumps, brakes (I don't like bleeding though!!), wheel bearings, king pins (on Sunbeam Stiletto) etc etc.
Your last paragraph reminds me that the last time I took the Skoda to a dealer they could not reset the inspection date as, according to them, it could only be reset by the dealer who had last serviced/inspected it (they had forgot to reset in this case). That has to be b******s surely?
When you decide which VAG-COM plug-in diagnostics tool you will buy please share info as I suspect a few others will be keen to benefit from your research. Including me!!

I don't ever go anywhere near the ECU either or anything else electrical unless it involves a straight swop for a new replacement item. Unless it goes wrong leave it well alone I say. Having said that I did own an old school Mercedes Benz 190 until recently and you could take things like faulty window lift switches etc apart and service them on that vehicle. They're all sealed now days.
Like you I have done lots of assorted mechanical work on numerous vehicles in the past although less and less in recent years. Apart from my old veteran cars, all of the cars that I've owned in recent years have either been new or fairly new so haven't required much more that routine servicing. The only two that looked like requiring major work and expense were both Mercedes Benzs, (not the 190). Both had started to develop signs of potentially serious auto gear box issues. I sold them both immediately before I had to pay out.

I will let you know about the VAG-COM gadjet.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't ever go anywhere near the ECU either or anything else electrical unless it involves a straight swop for a new replacement item. Unless it goes wrong leave it well alone I say. Having said that I did own an old school Mercedes Benz 190 until recently and you could take things like faulty window lift switches etc apart and service them on that vehicle. They're all sealed now days.
Like you I have done lots of assorted mechanical work on numerous vehicles in the past although less and less in recent years. Apart from my old veteran cars, all of the cars that I've owned in recent years have either been new or fairly new so haven't required much more that routine servicing. The only two that looked like requiring major work and expense were both Mercedes Benzs, (not the 190). Both had started to develop signs of potentially serious auto gear box issues. I sold them both immediately before I had to pay out.

I will let you know about the VAG-COM gadjet.

Wise man!

 

[hirsty]

Everyone always has plenty to say about Dealers - but I'd rather pay a premium & buy an Approved Used (Mercedes Benz?) vehicle with a full Dealer service history than a home-serviced one without warranty, which may or may not have an imminent expensive gearbox fault ...

 

[WelshGas]

Times are changing.
Home servicing of Autonomous Vehicles will certainly not be allowed.

 

[rod_vw]

Borris, it is quite possible to reset the various service indicators with Vagcom (now known as VCDS) I have the same problem with my T5 and T6 and have VCDS for that and other jobs.

If you are interested in purchasing have a read on the manufacturer's website at https://www.ross-tech.com/

I suspect that if you join the VW T6 Forum https://www.t6forum.com/ (or any other covering modern VAG vehicles) you will find someone close to you willing to do the reset for you for the cost of a pint or two. There may well be members of this forum close to you who can do the same.

Rod

 

[Borris]

Everyone always has plenty to say about Dealers - but I'd rather pay a premium & buy an Approved Used (Mercedes Benz?) vehicle with a full Dealer service history than a home-serviced one without warranty, which may or may not have an imminent expensive gearbox fault ...

So would I and that's why I did pay a premium for both the Mercs concerned (E class estate and an R Class seven seater), both were nearly new and approved used when purchased and both were serviced and stamped by the main agent dealership during the warrantee period. My youngest son carried out every service during that period. He was and still is a long standing highly experienced Mercedes Benz mechanic for the same Mercedes Benz dealership from where I purchased. I only took over the servicing once they were out of warrantee. He advised me to sell rather than repair once the not uncommon gearbox issues started to show themselves some time later on. By that time they wouldn't have been sold as approved used by a main agent dealership, either with or without a full dealer service history.
I can understand why many people have their older cars serviced by main agents or independants but for me it is purely a case of practicality and economics. I don't want to chuck money at dealers for servicing an older car with a vastly reduced value. It doesn't make any sense. Further more, selling a car with a main agent followed by self service history has never presented any problems at point of sale or effected resale value either.

 

[Borris]

Borris, it is quite possible to reset the various service indicators with Vagcom (now known as VCDS) I have the same problem with my T5 and T6 and have VCDS for that and other jobs.

If you are interested in purchasing have a read on the manufacturer's website at https://www.ross-tech.com/

I suspect that if you join the VW T6 Forum https://www.t6forum.com/ (or any other covering modern VAG vehicles) you will find someone close to you willing to do the reset for you for the cost of a pint or two. There may well be members of this forum close to you who can do the same.

Rod

Thanks Rod,
Sound advice.

 

[Borris]

Times are changing.
Home servicing of Autonomous Vehicles will certainly not be allowed.

Yes I agree but I suspect that by the time fully autonomous vehicles become available to the great unwashed, I will no longer be bothered by this issue.

 

[hirsty]

https://www.wired.com/story/gm-cruise-self-driving-car-launch-2019/

Ready to go, waiting for the law to catch up ...

 

[CYCLOPATH]

Sorry, this isn't a Cali related item but just might be soon.

Just over a year ago I purchased a three year old low mileage Skoda Superb estate for Mrs B. As with every other car I have ever owned, once any warrantee period had expired I have always serviced them myself, saving a fortune in the process. Just before Christmas I carried out an annual service on said car. On completion I successfully reset the "Oil Service Now Due" indication on the MFD and then attempted to also reset the "Inspection Service Now Due" indication but this time without success. Since then I have tried all sorts of instructions posted online and on YouTube, without success. So today as a last resort I went into our local Skoda dealer to ask them how to reset it. The service chap who dealt with my enquiry said that the only way it can be reset is on their computor and that all of their new vehicles are now the same!!!
The other reason that I went to the dealer today was to order a specific service book for this car so I can comply with the service regime detailed there in and to record completed services. One wasn't supplied with this vehicle as it has an electronic service record. According to the service chap, all service records are apparently now electronic, being entered onto the Skoda computor system. So I doubt if said service book will be forthcoming.

Obviously, vehicle manufacturers and dealers have vested interests in encouraging owners to have their vehicles serviced at their expensive hourly rates. Over the years vehicles have increasingly been designed to deliberately discourage the owner from carrying out servicing themselves. If the Skoda service chap is correct in that all Skoda vehicles now have electronic service records on their system then this is yet another attempt to put the final nail in the coffin of self servicing.

As Skoda is a member of the VAG group could VW and the California be next?

I ve an Audi and daughter a Skoda, both without service books, though with the Audi, I can acess the service schedule online

 

[Stoneybroke]

@Borris the electronic service book all seems rather anti-competetive to me.
As for servicing, I would argue it can be easier on modern cars as there is less to do, none of that messing about with top dead centre and points!

 

[Borris]

Well electronic servicing now seems to have happened to the California as well. Please read the first post on the attached thread.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/t6-owners-document-pack.22566/

I had expected it to happen but just not quite so soon.

 

[hirsty]

they also can’t be doctored by the unscrupulous, or lost, but can be printed / shared / emailed / searched upon request.

10.4M VW vehicles per year is a lot of trees, electricity & shipping.

 

[Digger]

Not a stitch up at all. Welcome to the modern world where everything is going online. Banks and police stations closing!. It was obvious that with technology and intricate electronics demanded by EU directives the manufacturers would have to get on board to prove compliance.

 

[Borris]

Not a stitch up at all. Welcome to the modern world where everything is going online. Banks and police stations closing!. It was obvious that with technology and intricate electronics demanded by EU directives the manufacturers would have to get on board to prove compliance.

Of course everthing's going on line, nothing new there.

Going to online servicing records isn't the issue and it's not a new concept either. It's the removal of the owners service book and the insistance that there will only be online servicing records in future that is my gripe. Add to that the removal of the facility for an owner to reset the service indicator themselves and it all starts to point towards manufacturers deliberately attempting to restrict the owners servicing options to manufacturer/dealership servicing. If he/she doesn't self service, the owner could of course use an independant garage however that garage would, in the case of many manufacturers, have to pay to access that manufacturer's licensed online service records and in Skoda's case that isn't cheap.

Manufacturers and their dealers may well have to prove compliance with the servicing that they carry out however that can't in any way, be a valid excuse for purely online servicing records. For the time being at least, vehicle manufacturers and their dealers are not legally required to service their products and you are not legally obliged to have your vehicle serviced by them either. Therefore if a dealer hasn't serviced a particular vehicle they can't be held accountable for any non compliance issues. So why not make service books an option to those owners who still want them? They could be used perfectly well without fuss, alongside the online system and it wouldn't cost a lot in "trees, electricity and shipping". They only need to give a service book to the owner that requests one or are rubber stamps too expensive for the cash strapped VAG group to provide?

No, I believe that this is all about the motor industry positioning themselves closer to a sealed bonnet future where you will have no choice and will have to have your vehicle serviced by the manufacturer/dealer by law. If that were to ever happen, they would then have the monopoly on servicing and up would go their prices. That in turn would drive yet more older cars off the roads therefore creating more need for shiny new cars. Who wins? Certainly not the owner.


So in the absence of any other plausible explanation, IMO it remains a "Servicing stitch up".