Potential roof problem

[Mansfieldman750]

We had a problem with our roof this time last year resulting in a replacement electro-hydraulic pump. Since then roof has never budged 1mm even after being up for days.
This holiday we have noticed roof sinks on passenger side corner after one day. Drop roof 12 inches, put it back up and it’s fine again.
Hope it is not the start of a problem.
Now going to put roof up and down 5 times to bleed system and we’ll see what it’s like tomorrow. See pics of roof slack and tight.

 

[DevillBelgium]

We had a problem with our roof this time last year resulting in a replacement electro-hydraulic pump. Since then roof has never budged 1mm even after being up for days.
This holiday we have noticed roof sinks on passenger side corner after one day. Drop roof 12 inches, put it back up and it’s fine again.
Hope it is not the start of a problem.
Now going to put roof up and down 5 times to bleed system and we’ll see what it’s like tomorrow. See pics of roof slack and tight.View attachment 111130View attachment 111131

I’ve seen the same thing on the display car at the dealer. They told me this was normal and that they had to put the roof back up evrey other 3 day’s.
Does not seem ok to me.

 

[couplands]

We had a problem with our roof this time last year resulting in a replacement electro-hydraulic pump. Since then roof has never budged 1mm even after being up for days.
This holiday we have noticed roof sinks on passenger side corner after one day. Drop roof 12 inches, put it back up and it’s fine again.
Hope it is not the start of a problem.
Now going to put roof up and down 5 times to bleed system and we’ll see what it’s like tomorrow. See pics of roof slack and tight.View attachment 111130View attachment 111131

We had a drooping roof (on the left side only) from new (Sept 2022) and when the dealer investigated they found the relief valve in the hydraulic pump was leaking so they replaced the pump. It would drop at least 50mm in 15mins.

Now it will stay up for a few days, but still drops but equally both side and not enough to turn the roof lights off.

At the recent CamperJam meet, I noticed that other Calis roofs stayed up and taught for the weekend, so I'll monitor ours and see if it needs further attention.

 

[Eamless]

Here’s ours after a couple of days. It’s going in for inspection next week. It seems to collapse faster the hotter the weather

 

[couplands]

View attachment 111136
Here’s ours after a couple of days. It’s going in for inspection next week. It seems to collapse faster the hotter the weather

Is that the same both sides or just this side..?

 

[Perfectos]

@andyinluton would you be kind enough to post the link to your final remedial works ( pump replaced) I can’t seem to find it

 

[andyinluton]

@andyinluton would you be kind enough to post the link to your final remedial works ( pump replaced) I can’t seem to find it

Not sure where it is either. I think the sequence was
Repair 1 for system bleeding & software update to allow roof to be lowered or raised from the intermediate position
Repair 2 was replacement rams
Repair 3 was replacement pump

Taking 6 months from initial problem to final fix

As far as I know there were no further problems after that.

 

[DevillBelgium]

Not sure where it is either. I think the sequence was
Repair 1 for system bleeding & software update to allow roof to be lowered or raised from the intermediate position
Repair 2 was replacement rams
Repair 3 was replacement pump

Taking 6 months from initial problem to final fix

As far as I know there were no further problems after that.

Was this work been executed and payed by the warenty? Or did you have to pay for services here? Cause this seems to me something vw should fix without cost. (This is purly something for me since I am deciding wether I shoud go for the Cali or Grand)

 

[andyinluton]

Was this work been executed and payed by the warenty? Or did you have to pay for services here? Cause this seems to me something vw should fix without cost. (This is purly something for me since I am deciding wether I shoud go for the Cali or Grand)

All covered by the warranty.
Repair 1 was the important one, before that if the roof sagged on one side only, it could get to the point where the sensors couldn't work out if it was up or down & locked the control panel to not let you move the roof.
The software update got rid of the interlock.
The problem with the pump appears to be late 2019-early 2020 vans.
My current 2023MY van has no problems at all with the roof.

 

[andyinluton]

Was this work been executed and payed by the warenty? Or did you have to pay for services here? Cause this seems to me something vw should fix without cost. (This is purly something for me since I am deciding wether I shoud go for the Cali or Grand)

I would let the roof problems discussed on here make you worry.
There are thousands of members on here and 99.9% havn't had any problems, like any forum you tend to only hear about the problems. It didn't stop me coming back to buy a 3rd van.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Roof is rock solid now, like before. Maybe it’s a good idea to do that 5 times up and down procedure at sign of roof starting to sag.

 

[Eamless]

View attachment 111136
Here’s ours after a couple of days. It’s going in for inspection next week. It seems to collapse faster the hotter the weather

Both sides. I did try the 5 times raising routine but it didn’t help. At first the lights refused to work when it dropped but now they won’t switch off oh and the water pump has just failed. But we used to have a Knaus A class before this (from new) and that was no better in regards to things not working. I think they are designed to be used for a couple of weeks a year

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Our van is 8 years old and if left on a site for 3 days it does drop both sides very slightly. Just enough to notice the canvas is not as tight as it was when it went up. For us not a lot to worry about.

 

[DavidofHook]

Got back from France middle of June. We had the roof up on one campsite for 3 weeks. It didn’t drop at all. It also seems to have stopped sighing which it used to do when up for long periods. A drooping roof would concern me.

 

[Tim&carolsvan]

We have had a slight sag in the roof of our new t6.1 after 4 night of it being up our roof lights wouldn’t switch on which I discovered from the forum was due to micro switch not connecting I believe the roof should automatically reset after 10 hours then every 5 hours whilst the ignition is not turned on to ensure the canvas stays taught according to the manuel
after lowering and rising the roof the lights were fine again for another few days we have it booked in this Thursday at our local dealership hopefully to remedy this issue

 

[barrymw]

We had the retensioning happen automatically at 4AM in the morning and didn't know what was happening. Our poor daughter, who was up in the poptop awoke to her mother yelling at her to get down! The roof had been up for a few days, and in relatively warm conditions, but I wasn't expecting it to loosen off enough to retention itself. We are also finding that the passenger side is 50/50 when closing. Not sure if it's related, but it's annoying.

 

[DavidofHook]

We had the retensioning happen automatically at 4AM in the morning and didn't know what was happening. Our poor daughter, who was up in the poptop awoke to her mother yelling at her to get down! The roof had been up for a few days, and in relatively warm conditions, but I wasn't expecting it to loosen off enough to retention itself. We are also finding that the passenger side is 50/50 when closing. Not sure if it's related, but it's annoying.

It can be quite disturbing, I can understand your concern, we were the same initially. . I said that ours no longer 'sighs' i.e. resets but maybe after 11 years we just don’t notice it any more!

 

[altvic]

We have had a slight sag in the roof of our new t6.1 after 4 night of it being up our roof lights wouldn’t switch on which I discovered from the forum was due to micro switch not connecting I believe the roof should automatically reset after 10 hours then every 5 hours whilst the ignition is not turned on to ensure the canvas stays taught according to the manuel
after lowering and rising the roof the lights were fine again for another few days we have it booked in this Thursday at our local dealership hopefully to remedy this issue

Be prepared for dealership to tell you that the roof issue is within ‘acceptable standards’

 

[Mansfieldman750]

This was our roof this morning after being up for 2 days in the heatwave. The control panel was flashing between “ Roof open. “ with the green tick and “ intermediate position “ Must have been on the cusp between the two. Maybe if we had left it up for one more night it would have auto-corrected but had to be moving on.
For us the sagging is definitely related to hot daytime temperatures followed by cool nights.

 

[Perfectos]

just a thought

Does anyone know if the hydraulic oil used in a T6.1 roof mech is the same or has been changed from previous models.
Could a different hydraulic oil be causing some of the issues ?

it seems a lot of people report the issue when there is a variation in ambient temperature !

edit could it be simply the grade has been changed, possibly saving VW a few pennies ?

THE DENSITY OF HYDRAULIC OIL​

The hydraulic oil density is the ratio of its mass to the volume of space it occupies. It is expressed as grams per milliliter (g/ml).

Density is a core property of hydraulic oils that impacts the performance of hydraulic equipment. Hydraulic fluids with higher density can allow contaminant suspension and removal. That way, they enhance the hydraulic system’s contamination control.

The density varies based on the type of hydraulic oil. For example, mineral-based hydraulic fluid density ranges from 0.8 to 0.9 g/ml. That means these fluids float on the water.

HYDRAULIC OIL VISCOSITY​

That is the single most significant characteristic of hydraulic oils. Viscosity represents the resistance of these fluids to temperature changes.

Hydraulic oil viscosity and temperature range are tightly connected. When the temperature increases, the oil viscosity plummets, and vice versa. Hydraulic oil viscosity is measured in Centistokes at 40°C and 100°C.

 

[Defender90]

just a thought

Does anyone know if the hydraulic oil used in a T6.1 roof mech is the same or has been changed from previous models.
Could a different hydraulic oil be causing some of the issues ?

it seems a lot of people report the issue when there is a variation in ambient temperature !

edit could it be simply the grade has been changed, possibly saving VW a few pennies ?

THE DENSITY OF HYDRAULIC OIL​

The hydraulic oil density is the ratio of its mass to the volume of space it occupies. It is expressed as grams per milliliter (g/ml).

Density is a core property of hydraulic oils that impacts the performance of hydraulic equipment. Hydraulic fluids with higher density can allow contaminant suspension and removal. That way, they enhance the hydraulic system’s contamination control.

The density varies based on the type of hydraulic oil. For example, mineral-based hydraulic fluid density ranges from 0.8 to 0.9 g/ml. That means these fluids float on the water.

HYDRAULIC OIL VISCOSITY​

That is the single most significant characteristic of hydraulic oils. Viscosity represents the resistance of these fluids to temperature changes.

Hydraulic oil viscosity and temperature range are tightly connected. When the temperature increases, the oil viscosity plummets, and vice versa. Hydraulic oil viscosity is measured in Centistokes at 40°C and 100°C.

Very good point

 

[Perfectos]

may help to explain a bit more :

Hydraulic oil compressibility: what is it and what are the risks? - Q8Oils

Hydraulic oils are somewhat compressible which can cause problems in hydraulic systems. Aspects like temperature changes and the presence of air bubbles in the hydraulic oil influence compressibility which can lead to uncontrolled decompression and other problems related to compressibility.

www.q8oils.com

 

[Mansfieldman750]

just a thought

Does anyone know if the hydraulic oil used in a T6.1 roof mech is the same or has been changed from previous models.
Could a different hydraulic oil be causing some of the issues ?

it seems a lot of people report the issue when there is a variation in ambient temperature !

edit could it be simply the grade has been changed, possibly saving VW a few pennies ?

THE DENSITY OF HYDRAULIC OIL​

The hydraulic oil density is the ratio of its mass to the volume of space it occupies. It is expressed as grams per milliliter (g/ml).

Density is a core property of hydraulic oils that impacts the performance of hydraulic equipment. Hydraulic fluids with higher density can allow contaminant suspension and removal. That way, they enhance the hydraulic system’s contamination control.

The density varies based on the type of hydraulic oil. For example, mineral-based hydraulic fluid density ranges from 0.8 to 0.9 g/ml. That means these fluids float on the water.

HYDRAULIC OIL VISCOSITY​

That is the single most significant characteristic of hydraulic oils. Viscosity represents the resistance of these fluids to temperature changes.

Hydraulic oil viscosity and temperature range are tightly connected. When the temperature increases, the oil viscosity plummets, and vice versa. Hydraulic oil viscosity is measured in Centistokes at 40°C and 100°C.

This is the hydraulic fluid they were using in 2019. I don’t know if it has changed since then.
So if fluid expands back into the reservoir with temperature, the pump has to activated to replenish the “lost“ fluid ? That makes sense.

 

[vbk1975]

This is the hydraulic fluid they were using in 2019. I don’t know if it has changed since then.
So if fluid expands back into the reservoir with temperature, the pump has to activated to replenish the “lost“ fluid ? That makes sense.
View attachment 114078

We have suffered from slight roof sagging on very hot days when the temp then cools off.

Rather than wait for the self correcting to kick in (or not) we normally just lower the roof slightly and raise fully.

However after a bit of experimenting, I ended up making (cutting a bit of plastic) sun shades for the rams. It appears to have stopped the issue completely over the last 6 months from the day I made them. Clearly they aren’t needed unless conditions require.

They take about 5 secs to fit and are easy to store. I made one for both sides but in reality you probably only need one depending on van to Sun position.







75mm x 75mm angle and 800mm long. Purchased from French DIY store, but I am sure widely available

 

[Mansfieldman750]

We have suffered from slight roof sagging on very hot days when the temp then cools off.

Rather than wait for the self correcting to kick in (or not) we normally just lower the roof slightly and raise fully.

However after a bit of experimenting, I ended up making (cutting a bit of plastic) sun shades for the rams. It appears to have stopped the issue completely over the last 6 months from the day I made them. Clearly they aren’t needed unless conditions require.

They take about 5 secs to fit and are easy to store. I made one for both sides but in reality you probably only need one depending on van to Sun position.

View attachment 114087

View attachment 114088

View attachment 114089

Wow, a simple but effective solution. Important to remember it’s there though, although you could take it off when the sun goes down I suppose.