Leaking Bellows: Installed since October 2023 Only

[CampervanFlattie]

sorry I misread it as Oct 22, so I thought it was for everyone with the new bellows not the “new new” bellows! I can’t seem to cancel my vote as I am only awaiting a dealer test on the new (my23) bellows and not the “new new” ones!

That will teach me not to try to read posts on my phone.

 

[RockinNRollin]

sorry I misread it as Oct 22, so I thought it was for everyone with the new bellows not the “new new” bellows! I can’t seem to cancel my vote as I am only awaiting a dealer test on the new (my23) bellows and not the “new new” ones!

That will teach me not to try to read posts on my phone.

If it’s in the awaiting test category I’m not that worried!

 

[Jabberwocky]

These are not design for direct horizontal rain. In my experience of these vehicles you are best to have the rear of the van pointing into the wind and in really heavy rain either having a cover over or putting roof down. There are few tents that are completely waterproof in this world so why expect it of these roofs? .

I have just sold my T6 and swapped it for a T6.1. In the four and a half years I owned my T6 not one drop of water leaked thru the canvas material, seams, zips or stitching etc. during something approaching 100 days/year of up-top sleeping, Neither did we have a problem of wicking from canvas to bedding, even if the bedding was up against it. So what changed? VW introduced, for reasons I am not aware of, a new canvas material which is clearly different from the old and not fit for purpose. I am now on my third canvas for my T6.1, the first two leaking in unacceptable ways. I have yet to test my third canvas but will be trying to do this between showers over the next couple of days.

 

[Corradobrit]

I have yet to test my third canvas but will be trying to do this between showers over the next couple of days.

Assuming you managed to find some rain, how did the replacement bellows perform?

 

[babble]

Assuming you managed to find some rain, how did the replacement bellows perform?

And...does i look any different?

 

[RockinNRollin]

And...does i look any different?

Mine look maybe marginally darker on the outside but I might be imagining it

 

[Corradobrit]

Butschi on Calibord reports what I believe is the new new 'C' bellows leaking this weekend through front, side and rear panels. He is at his wits end with VW and completely frustrated with the lack of info from VW and what happens next.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So, number three bellows.......First things first. I can't see any visual differences with bellows three when compared to bellows two or bellows one. In fairness I don't have an example of each of the bellows side by side so I am relying on memory for that comment. So nothing really striking.
For the first leaker test I used a hose pipe that was set on a low flow mode (able to stop the flow with my thumb over the end of the pipe). The hose was played directly on the front and sides of the canvas. Water beading was observed for approximately ten minutes on the outsides. It was a still day with no wind. No leakage was seen at the seams (comment later), stitches or zips. What I did find interesting was the colour of the canvas changed from being a dark colour to very dark as the canvas became saturated. It appeared to "hold" quite a lot of water. After about fifteen minutes the seam between the canvas (two types) and the rubber seal (?) at the base of the canvas started to glisten. There was the beginnings of a breach which seemed to wick, left and right along the line of the seam.
So far so good? We will see. I will do a second leaker test in a more realistic situation when next we expect to see a rain/wind combination and report further.

 

[RockinNRollin]

After about fifteen minutes the seam between the canvas (two types) and the rubber seal (?) at the base of the canvas started to glisten. There was the beginnings of a breach which seemed to wick, left and right along the line of the seam.
So far so good? We will see.

I don’t really interpret that as good news - if glistening water is appearing then it’s getting through and I expect would start dripping given a little while longer (did you stop your test at the point above or keep going?). Yes, better than before, but doesn’t sound resolved. Unbelievably.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

It’s not resolved, I was told on Friday that the latest version reduces the problem but does not cure it. This experiment probably backs that up.

I think we will soon be calling on someone with the old style bellows to run a side by side test against the new, new ones as my concern is VW will lower the ‘acceptable’ standard as a cheap way out of this. Nobody should tolerate a bellows which does not perform at least equal to the former style in my opinion.

 

[RockinNRollin]

It’s not resolved, I was told on Friday that the latest version reduces the problem but does not cure it. This experiment probably backs that up.

I think we will soon be calling on someone with the old style bellows to run a side by side test against the new, new ones as my concern is VW will lower the ‘acceptable’ standard as a cheap way out of this. Nobody should tolerate a bellows which does not perform at least equal to the former style in my opinion.

It’s binary in my eyes; it either works or it doesn’t. Yes I don’t expect it to withstand an industrial pressure washer or being submersed in the North Sea, but I doubt a normal hose on any setting other than the jet/narrow will exert any more (probably less in fact) hydrostatic head than normal rain in moderate wind (and I am referring to seams and joints still as I know the HH head of the new material itself isn’t in question).

 

[Corradobrit]

It’s binary in my eyes; it either works or it doesn’t. Yes I don’t expect it to withstand an industrial pressure washer or being submersed in the North Sea, but I doubt a normal hose on any setting other than the jet/narrow will exert any more (probably less in fact) hydrostatic head than normal rain in moderate wind (and I am referring to seams and joints still as I know the HH head of the new material itself isn’t in question).

And what are VW doing to get this nominal improvement? We need that info to understand if those improvements will give long term protection. No point having an effective bellows for a couple of years only to fail outside warranty. Any type of topical sealant will eventually fail, especially given the stretchy properties of the fabric and tensions put through it with the lifting mechanism. Same goes for seam tape.
IMO a complete redesign is needed, focused primarily at the seams. Cotton based thread that swells?

 

[RockinNRollin]

In the UK at least, I would lean on the Consumer Rights Act if replacement bellows started failing in less than 10 years (a time period I would suggest would be reasonable for bellows to last). Ordinarily it might be burdensome, but I suspect if one starts failing prematurely, most will, so it would potentially gain momentum, although I'm sure it would still be a difficult journey.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don’t really interpret that as good news - if glistening water is appearing then it’s getting through and I expect would start dripping given a little while longer (did you stop your test at the point above or keep going?). Yes, better than before, but doesn’t sound resolved. Unbelievably.

I had to stop test because I wanted to be sure I could dry everything before folding roof away. For my second test I will need daylight with a wet morning and a clear dry afternoon/evening for clearing up/drying etc. So probably not this week.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Why doesn't VW bite the bullet, admit the new bellows (and the new, new and apparently the new, new, new bellows) just dont work and go back to the tried and tested pre-MY23 version ?

 

[Corradobrit]

Why doesn't VW bite the bullet, admit the new bellows (and the new, new and apparently the new, new, new bellows) just dont work and go back to the tried and tested pre-MY23 version ?

The supplier of the pre MY23 bellows might be in Ukraine/gone bust/unable to supply for any number of reasons. The fact they are unavailable even as replacements for early vans supports the supply chain problems.

 

[RockinNRollin]

The supplier of the pre MY23 bellows might be in Ukraine/gone bust/unable to supply for any number of reasons. The fact they are unavailable even as replacements for early vans supports the supply chain problems.

Indeed, this seems to be the most likely conclusion. It actually exacerbates the problem for VW, but presents a fantastic opportunity for an independent manufacturer to "get it right".

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

Indeed, this seems to be the most likely conclusion. It actually exacerbates the problem for VW, but presents a fantastic opportunity for an independent manufacturer to "get it right".

Who makes the bellows that are fitted in conversions? I’m assuming it’s a selection of independent manufacturers.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Who makes the bellows that are fitted in conversions? I’m assuming it’s a selection of independent manufacturers.

I assume so as I've seen many different variations (unless it's just one or two manufacturers producing multiple products). I've always though the Cali bellows seems better quality though than any of the conversions. Well, until now anyway. To be fair, a bin bag would perform better.

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

Just seen my latest We Buy Any Car valuation (down £16k from last week). I’m assuming you lot are all fed-up with waiting for a solution and have been checking to see what you’d get for your van if you got rid of it… so WBAC think they are just about to be “flooded” with Californias haha!

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I've heard of plenty problems with cars at launch which have to be ironed out, but I've never heard of a problem at the end of the production which wasn't there previously. Absolutely bonkers, I'll be letting my dealer know before I collect mine that if it leaks I will be rejecting it within 30 days, so they may as well save themselves any trouble by checking beforehand.....

 

[Betsycalifornia]

New bellows being fitted to my 6 week old CAli on Tuesday. then being tested before I‘m going to collect it.

edit: not anymore. No bellows available. On back order. Date to be determined next week now. That might be a good thing the way the replacements appear to be leaking.

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

Mines 3 days old and untested. Will do ASAP but suspect I’ll join the club of ongoing replacement. Hoping still!!

 

[babble]

i not sure if hope has anything to do with this. i don't think there is a single person who actually has a non-leaking bellows of this sort, new or replaced.

 

[Kayleigh]

i not sure if hope has anything to do with this. i don't think there is a single person who actually has a non-leaking bellows of this sort, new or replaced.

Unfortunately, that’s correct