Catastrophic EGR Cooler fail - new engine needed

[DrewCalifornia]

Hi, sadly my first (long!) post is not a happy one and I’m seeking advice on next steps/options from anyone that has had a similar experience:

In brief, my 2015 plate California SE needs a new engine and turbos after an ‘EGR Cooler failure’ at an initial quote of £13k. It has done a little over 22,000 miles and I bought it at 15,000 miles. After raising higher to VW customer services I’ve got the quote down to £11.5k out of ‘goodwill’ but I’m still not impressed.

The fault occurred after the coolant light came on during a 3hr journey. I stopped , checked coolant, saw it was low and topped up; the light went away again. I didn’t think too much of it as it had just been into the garage. It came back on later in the journey and I decided to take it back in immediately the next day. This is where the fun starts. VW Colchester checked the vehicle for any leaks, couldn’t find any and stated it was likely air in the system, meanwhile giving me a bottle of coolant and telling me top up as required and sending me on my way. One journey later and the van was struggling to start. AA called out who thought it could be a head gasket problem and so it was recovered back to the garage. They conducted a full diagnosis and provided the following:

‘Issues have stemmed from a failure of the EGR cooler which has in turn caused damage to the engine and Turbo Chargers.’

When asked how and why this can happen in such a young engine with no warning - just a coolant light for a limited time, (no engine management warning, no effect on engine power, no change in vehicle temp, no smoke out the back), they stated:

‘Ultimately it is hard to pin point exactly the causal failure other than the 'tubes' in which both air and coolant flow through as somehow weakened allowing the fluid to escape and into the intake system. I do take onboard your point reference the age and the maintenance you have had done to maintain the efficiency of the vehicle and avoid any unnecessary obstacles and I do except the mileage is also very young. All I can really say in this case is it is unfortunate this has indeed happened but I cannot give you any other reasons I am afraid.’

I am stunned, appalled and in disbelief this can just be bad luck in such a ‘young’ engine. Ok it’s out of warranty but its mileage is low. It’s had a full service history at VW garages and the checks online show nothing dodgy about its history in the 2 years 9 months I’ve owned it. It’s gone from being a dream to a nightmare and I appear to have few options.

Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom?

 

[sidepod]

Search and you’ll find hundreds of similar postings. Happy reading.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi, sadly my first (long!) post is not a happy one and I’m seeking advice on next steps/options from anyone that has had a similar experience:

In brief, my 2015 plate California SE needs a new engine and turbos after an ‘EGR Cooler failure’ at an initial quote of £13k. It has done a little over 22,000 miles and I bought it at 15,000 miles. After raising higher to VW customer services I’ve got the quote down to £11.5k out of ‘goodwill’ but I’m still not impressed.

The fault occurred after the coolant light came on during a 3hr journey. I stopped , checked coolant, saw it was low and topped up; the light went away again. I didn’t think too much of it as it had just been into the garage. It came back on later in the journey and I decided to take it back in immediately the next day. This is where the fun starts. VW Colchester checked the vehicle for any leaks, couldn’t find any and stated it was likely air in the system, meanwhile giving me a bottle of coolant and telling me top up as required and sending me on my way. One journey later and the van was struggling to start. AA called out who thought it could be a head gasket problem and so it was recovered back to the garage. They conducted a full diagnosis and provided the following:

‘Issues have stemmed from a failure of the EGR cooler which has in turn caused damage to the engine and Turbo Chargers.’

When asked how and why this can happen in such a young engine with no warning - just a coolant light for a limited time, (no engine management warning, no effect on engine power, no change in vehicle temp, no smoke out the back), they stated:

‘Ultimately it is hard to pin point exactly the causal failure other than the 'tubes' in which both air and coolant flow through as somehow weakened allowing the fluid to escape and into the intake system. I do take onboard your point reference the age and the maintenance you have had done to maintain the efficiency of the vehicle and avoid any unnecessary obstacles and I do except the mileage is also very young. All I can really say in this case is it is unfortunate this has indeed happened but I cannot give you any other reasons I am afraid.’

I am stunned, appalled and in disbelief this can just be bad luck in such a ‘young’ engine. Ok it’s out of warranty but its mileage is low. It’s had a full service history at VW garages and the checks online show nothing dodgy about its history in the 2 years 9 months I’ve owned it. It’s gone from being a dream to a nightmare and I appear to have few options.

Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom?

I’m afraid I have no pearls of wisdom. You have done well to negotiate a goodwill gesture payment.
Although the engine has low milage, less than 3,000 miles/year it is also 8 yrs old and has spent the majority of its time static, full of antifreeze, oil etc, not exposed to the normal regular temperature changes etc: and gaskets and liquid filled systems ie: coolant system do suffer from corrosion and failure over time especially if not used as designed.
One could argue that the original garage diagnosis is questionable as to Where and How the air got into the system in the first place and if they had investigated further might have found the initial cause of the coolant loss before the engine was damaged.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’m afraid I have no pearls of wisdom. You have done well to negotiate a goodwill gesture payment.
Although the engine has low milage, less than 3,000 miles/year it is also 8 yrs old and has spent the majority of its time static, full of antifreeze, oil etc, not exposed to the normal regular temperature changes etc: and gaskets and liquid filled systems ie: coolant system do suffer from corrosion and failure over time especially if not used as designed.
One could argue that the original garage diagnosis is questionable as to Where and How the air got into the system in the first place and if they had investigated further might have found the initial cause of the coolant loss before the engine was damaged.

I agree engines need regular running and sometimes low miles can be an issue. But, as we all know. Modern Volkswagen diesels with plenty of Egr, DPf and turbo issues are well documented.
Volkswagen won’t admit liability with their engines, but they definitely not reliable units. The last reliable engine they built, was the 2.5 5 pot on the T4.

I’m sorry about your issues O/P. There’s a company named regular on the T6 forum who have done a lot of T5 & T6 engine rebuilds.
Cheaper than Volkswagen, but still looking at £7.5k…

Services Archive - Retro Resus

www.retroresus.com

 

[Elmo3]

Sorry to hear this. Yes, it’s low mileage, which is not ideal for a diesel engine, however, it’s clearly premature failure due to a design fault which VW won’t admit to. If it was mine, VW would be the last place I’d take it. Find a decent independent engine reconditioner as suggested above. Best of luck.

 

[Steve1]

I was going to say similar, I know it's easy to say when it's not my van and don't have to get it moved somehow ... But, have they given you lots of details about the actual damage. This isn't the same as the other 180 occurrences where bits of aluminium may have ruined the bores, this sounds like water being pumped straight into the bores. Although if there is enough water, that can cause very serious problems such as hydraulic lock, or diluting the oil so much that the lubrication system does not work, is that what has happened or is the damage less serious. Main dealers are very quick to replace large components rather than repair things. In some cases like bore damage this would be the right choice, but in others there might be other options. So perhaps ask for some exact details of what has been damaged and if they can't give it try to get it to an independent garage for a second opinion if you can.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Mileage is irrelevant, once the cooler fails the damage is done…Metal particles kill engines - whether it’s at 1000 miles or 200k miles.

Get a new engine from VW and then you will enjoy a warranty on the engine which is valid any any dealer, so will be very valuable when it comes to resale.

 

[Steve1]

Mileage is irrelevant, once the cooler fails the damage is done…Metal particles kill engines - whether it’s at 1000 miles or 200k miles.

Get a new engine from VW and then you will enjoy a warranty on the engine which is valid any any dealer, so will be very valuable when it comes to resale.

But in this case the OP didn't say it was metal particles, he said it was a water leak between the coolers water and air section.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Hi, sadly my first (long!) post is not a happy one and I’m seeking advice on next steps/options from anyone that has had a similar experience:

In brief, my 2015 plate California SE needs a new engine and turbos after an ‘EGR Cooler failure’ at an initial quote of £13k. It has done a little over 22,000 miles and I bought it at 15,000 miles. After raising higher to VW customer services I’ve got the quote down to £11.5k out of ‘goodwill’ but I’m still not impressed.

The fault occurred after the coolant light came on during a 3hr journey. I stopped , checked coolant, saw it was low and topped up; the light went away again. I didn’t think too much of it as it had just been into the garage. It came back on later in the journey and I decided to take it back in immediately the next day. This is where the fun starts. VW Colchester checked the vehicle for any leaks, couldn’t find any and stated it was likely air in the system, meanwhile giving me a bottle of coolant and telling me top up as required and sending me on my way. One journey later and the van was struggling to start. AA called out who thought it could be a head gasket problem and so it was recovered back to the garage. They conducted a full diagnosis and provided the following:

‘Issues have stemmed from a failure of the EGR cooler which has in turn caused damage to the engine and Turbo Chargers.’

When asked how and why this can happen in such a young engine with no warning - just a coolant light for a limited time, (no engine management warning, no effect on engine power, no change in vehicle temp, no smoke out the back), they stated:

‘Ultimately it is hard to pin point exactly the causal failure other than the 'tubes' in which both air and coolant flow through as somehow weakened allowing the fluid to escape and into the intake system. I do take onboard your point reference the age and the maintenance you have had done to maintain the efficiency of the vehicle and avoid any unnecessary obstacles and I do except the mileage is also very young. All I can really say in this case is it is unfortunate this has indeed happened but I cannot give you any other reasons I am afraid.’

I am stunned, appalled and in disbelief this can just be bad luck in such a ‘young’ engine. Ok it’s out of warranty but its mileage is low. It’s had a full service history at VW garages and the checks online show nothing dodgy about its history in the 2 years 9 months I’ve owned it. It’s gone from being a dream to a nightmare and I appear to have few options.

Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom?

That’s a worrying story. I really feel for you.

 

[edocali]

Very worrying and infuriating, considering you had the van seen and were advised to top up.
I feel your pain.

Dealers and manufacturers take no responsibility for these costly failures.

Not a Cali story, but on my wife's 216d we had an oil sensor failure for a couple of years. During the yearly serviced it was reset but then failed again. This year I wanted it investigated as the engine light came on - sensor failed due to fuel leaking through it. Fuel damaged wiring and other sensors and an ECU unit. Total bill £4100. On a car worth ~8-10k (if running properly).
We changed our mind and decided to sell it at webuyanycar before the work started but the dealer and BMW refused to cancel as they said the parts were coded for this car VIN.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Mileage is irrelevant, once the cooler fails the damage is done…Metal particles kill engines - whether it’s at 1000 miles or 200k miles.

Get a new engine from VW and then you will enjoy a warranty on the engine which is valid any any dealer, so will be very valuable when it comes to resale.

I personally wouldn’t go to Volkswagen for the replacement. It’s going to cost you more money and I think they only warranty the work for 2 years.
I would head down the independent route and save the cash…

 

[G&Ts]

I'm really sorry to hear this. We had a very similar experience in 2017 - EGR valve failure caused coolant to leak into the engine, causing catastrophic damage. Here's the thread we posted at the time:

EGR valve fault / engine damage on 66 plate T6

Hi all, we have a 2016 T6 204PS California. Last week the engine wouldn't start and the coolant warning light came on; on checking the coolant it was completely empty. VW Assist recovered the vehicle to the garage, it turns out that a fault with the EGR valve had caused the coolant to leak into...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

The cali was only 10 months old when it happened, with 13,000 miles on the clock. We were equally stunned that it could happen to such a young engine. The only 'plus' was that it was within warranty so all the costs were covered by VW.

Our extended warranty (part of the all-in plan we bought a couple of years ago) has just run out, and we can't buy the plan again as the cali's over 6 years old now. So, we now have the dilemma of whether or not to fork out £950 a year for extended warranty... I was leaning towards not to, but your post is making me think twice.

 

[Wild Rover]

I'm really sorry to hear this. We had a very similar experience in 2017 - EGR valve failure caused coolant to leak into the engine, causing catastrophic damage. Here's the thread we posted at the time:

EGR valve fault / engine damage on 66 plate T6

Hi all, we have a 2016 T6 204PS California. Last week the engine wouldn't start and the coolant warning light came on; on checking the coolant it was completely empty. VW Assist recovered the vehicle to the garage, it turns out that a fault with the EGR valve had caused the coolant to leak into...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

The cali was only 10 months old when it happened, with 13,000 miles on the clock. We were equally stunned that it could happen to such a young engine. The only 'plus' was that it was within warranty so all the costs were covered by VW.

Our extended warranty (part of the all-in plan we bought a couple of years ago) has just run out, and we can't buy the plan again as the cali's over 6 years old now. So, we now have the dilemma of whether or not to fork out £950 a year for extended warranty... I was leaning towards not to, but your post is making me think twice.

Check the small print on the extended warranty. It’s rubbish compared to the VW All IN plan. It has a max claim limit of £2500, or did last time I brought it. Not worth it.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

I'm really sorry to hear this. We had a very similar experience in 2017 - EGR valve failure caused coolant to leak into the engine, causing catastrophic damage. Here's the thread we posted at the time:

EGR valve fault / engine damage on 66 plate T6

Hi all, we have a 2016 T6 204PS California. Last week the engine wouldn't start and the coolant warning light came on; on checking the coolant it was completely empty. VW Assist recovered the vehicle to the garage, it turns out that a fault with the EGR valve had caused the coolant to leak into...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

The cali was only 10 months old when it happened, with 13,000 miles on the clock. We were equally stunned that it could happen to such a young engine. The only 'plus' was that it was within warranty so all the costs were covered by VW.

Our extended warranty (part of the all-in plan we bought a couple of years ago) has just run out, and we can't buy the plan again as the cali's over 6 years old now. So, we now have the dilemma of whether or not to fork out £950 a year for extended warranty... I was leaning towards not to, but your post is making me think twice.

Who would the new extended warranty be with?

 

[G&Ts]

@Wild Rover thank you - I didn't realise that. It really is extortionate in that case. The VW All In Plan was such a great deal, I'm gutted we can't buy it again.

@Ozzy Pete that's with VW. Although come to think of it, maybe there are cheaper alternatives with other companies worth looking at.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

@Wild Rover thank you - I didn't realise that. It really is extortionate in that case. The VW All In Plan was such a great deal, I'm gutted we can't buy it again.

@Ozzy Pete that's with VW. Although come to think of it, maybe there are cheaper alternatives with other companies worth looking at.

Don’t even think about buying an aftermarket warranty Before at least looking at their feedback. Some are just out to rip you off. The Ts and Cs need to be absolutely scrutinised and even then I wouldnt trust a lot of them.
if you can get a GENUINE VW warranty go for that For peace of mind.

 

[Wild Rover]

Don’t even think about buying an aftermarket warranty Before at least looking at their feedback. Some are just out to rip you off. The Ts and Cs need to be absolutely scrutinised and even then I wouldnt trust a lot of them.
if you can get a GENUINE VW warranty go for that For peace of mind.

The non all in one genuine commercial VW warranty is almost equally crap, it’s just an insurance policy with rough a third party. £2500 limit per claim when I had it. It’s expensive to take out too.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

The non all in one genuine commercial VW warranty is almost equally crap, it’s just an insurance policy with rough a third party. £2500 limit per claim when I had it. It’s expensive to take out too.

So if it’s a third party warranty £2500 buys you nothing in engine damage. And you could be paying a grand a year for the privilege.

 

[Wild Rover]

So if it’s a third party warranty £2500 buys you nothing in engine damage. And you could be paying a grand a year for the privilege.

Yes, it’s not worth it.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The non all in one genuine commercial VW warranty is almost equally crap, it’s just an insurance policy with rough a third party. £2500 limit per claim when I had it. It’s expensive to take out too.

I recently bought a car through BMW used, with their 12 months warranty plan.
On the drive home, I noticed the screen wash wasn’t working properly and as the drive from A-B was 7 hours, I reported to the 4hr courtesy call.
The response, it’s not covered by warranty. We can’t guarantee that the previous owner used BMW screen wash, hence the blockage.
We can clear it, if you drive it back and pay the £170+ VAT.

Obviously, it wasn’t worth my time arguing the toss and my local garage sorted for £60. But the moral of the story is, I wouldn’t wipe my ass with aftermarket warranties. Even OEM…

 

[Ozzy Pete]

I recently bought a car through BMW used, with their 12 months warranty plan.
On the drive home, I noticed the screen wash wasn’t working properly and as the drive from A-B was 7 hours, I reported to the 4hr courtesy call.
The response, it’s not covered by warranty. We can’t guarantee that the previous owner used BMW screen wash, hence the blockage.
We can clear it, if you drive it back and pay the £170+ VAT.

Obviously, it wasn’t worth my time arguing the toss and my local garage sorted for £60. But the moral of the story is, I would wipe my ass with aftermarket warranties. Even OEM…

A few years ago we had a Mini Cooper Diesel. At the end of the main warranty I decided to take another warranty with mini themselves. I think it was around £325 a year. Did the same for the next couple of years so all in cost me about a Grand. Half way through the third Warranty there was a nasty noise coming from the engine plus one of the electric windows failed. Took it into mini in Swansea and they agreed it was a warranty claim. No hassle at all. The bill would have been £950.
So not all manufacturers are the same with their aftermarket warranties.
Ok it didn’t save me anything but in the end it didn’t cost anything. Just like any insurance policy you hope you won’t need it.
If we didn’t have insurance we could potentially save a fortune, but on the other hand if you didn’t have any you could lose a fortune as well.

 

[sidepod]

I recently bought a car through BMW used, with their 12 months warranty plan.
On the drive home, I noticed the screen wash wasn’t working properly and as the drive from A-B was 7 hours, I reported to the 4hr courtesy call.
The response, it’s not covered by warranty. We can’t guarantee that the previous owner used BMW screen wash, hence the blockage.
We can clear it, if you drive it back and pay the £170+ VAT.

Obviously, it wasn’t worth my time arguing the toss and my local garage sorted for £60. But the moral of the story is, I would wipe my ass with aftermarket warranties. Even OEM…

I think that would incense me! To insult your intelligence by suggesting there is a difference between BMW screen wash and , well, tap water? They may as well have called you a ***t.

 

[soulstyledevon]

A few years ago we had a Mini Cooper Diesel. At the end of the main warranty I decided to take another warranty with mini themselves. I think it was around £325 a year. Did the same for the next couple of years so all in cost me about a Grand. Half way through the third Warranty there was a nasty noise coming from the engine plus one of the electric windows failed. Took it into mini in Swansea and they agreed it was a warranty claim. No hassle at all. The bill would have been £950.
So not all manufacturers are the same with their aftermarket warranties.
Ok it didn’t save me anything but in the end it didn’t cost anything. Just like any insurance policy you hope you won’t need it.
If we didn’t have insurance we could potentially save a fortune, but on the other hand if you didn’t have any you could lose a fortune as well.

I do like a gamble.
If a dealer quoted me £950 a year, I would take my chances…

 

[Doug Curran]

As bad as extended warranty rates are, it is always worth reflecting on the fact that they are only offered because they make money for the factory or the insurance company - otherwise they would never be offered. So, yes, they may be worthwhile if you're unlucky, but the odds are - over the long term and across all purchases - that these warranties are not worth buying. Are you a lucky person?

 

[Vagophile]

As bad as extended warranty rates are, it is always worth reflecting on the fact that they are only offered because they make money for the factory or the insurance company - otherwise they would never be offered.

I would never take an extended warranty on anything. The out of warranty lives of all cars, domestic appliances etc have been self insured ever since I set out in life in my teens. I reckon that I must be quids in.