Carbon monoxide alarms, pointless?

[Bramco]

In fact if more than 1 person sleeps in the vehicle then you are more at risk of Carbon Dioxide poisoning than Carbon Monoxide. Ventilation is very important, and that means more than just the Canvas Roof Vents.

Wasn't there an earlier discussion of this where someone worked out that you'd need to be in a closed box with no ventilation for days before you'd succumb to carbon dioxide poisoning?

As I understand it from your previous work you should be able to give chapter and verse on this - surely the vents in the roof when up would be more than enough to allow the exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide with the atmosphere to prevent any build up of carbon dioxide and especially to the levels needed for it to be toxic.

Also while carbon monoxide alarms are very useful, if you haven't stowed a still smouldering barbecue in the boot and you haven't left the rings on the stove burning then there can't possibly be any build up of CO while you are sleeping.

So the uses for a CO detector are when you are cooking inside the van over an open flame but if you aren't doing this then they've nothing to detect.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And while I'm thinking about this it might be a good idea to have a sticky thread that explains all of this in clear English so that no one falls into the trap of believing some of the mad ideas that get bandied around.

 

[WelshGas]

Wasn't there an earlier discussion of this where someone worked out that you'd need to be in a closed box with no ventilation for days before you'd succumb to carbon dioxide poisoning?

As I understand it from your previous work you should be able to give chapter and verse on this - surely the vents in the roof when up would be more than enough to allow the exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide with the atmosphere to prevent any build up of carbon dioxide and especially to the levels needed for it to be toxic.

Also while carbon monoxide alarms are very useful, if you haven't stowed a still smouldering barbecue in the boot and you haven't left the rings on the stove burning then there can't possibly be any build up of CO while you are sleeping.

So the uses for a CO detector are when you are cooking inside the van over an open flame but if you aren't doing this then they've nothing to detect.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And while I'm thinking about this it might be a good idea to have a sticky thread that explains all of this in clear English so that no one falls into the trap of believing some of the mad ideas that get bandied around.

There is a whole range of symptoms relating to Carbon Dioxide poisoning. I can virtually guarantee that 4 people sleeping in a California, depending on just the roof vents, on a windless night, are more than likely to wake up with a thick head and possibly a stuffy nose.
However, opening a window slightly, or fitting a window vent will produce an air current, even if there is no wind so more than adequate ventilation.

Adult Breathing Volume / minute. 5 - 8 L/min so average 6.5L

Internal Volume of California 5m x 2m x 1.0m = 10 cubic m = 10,000 L approximately.

Adult sleeping for 8 hrs. Total gas exchange volume 6.5 x 60 x 8 L / 8 hrs sleep approximately


4 Adults sleeping for 8 hrs = 6.5 x 60 x 8 x 4 = 12,480 L approximately


Average Expired CO2 concentration is about 3 - 4 %


So, if 4 people entered a California, with roof up, and slept for 8 hrs with poor ventilation you could end up with the Air in the California having a CO2 concentration of about 4%.

Breathing 5% CO2 in Air can give you a thumping headache.

Combine this with the reduction in the Oxygen levels from a normal of 21% to about 18% and you could feel quit unwell.


Also, don’t forget, except in warm weather, you might have spent all evening in the Vehicle so may not be starting off with normal gas levels.

 

[Vinczz]

I don't see the need for CO detector.

As other said, CO would come from the hobs when there is no proper ventilation.

I always keep the side window and the opposite front window slightly open when cooking.

Has ever anyone had the CO detector alarm triggered?

 

[B J G]

It will also detect a (very unlikely) failure in overnight heater.

Alarm not going off isn't a reason not to have one.

My house smoke and CO alarms haven't gone off but no reason not have them.

My Volvo HGV came with one fitted as standard. It went off - triggered by fumes coming in through the open window from an external source.

 

[MattBW]

I don't see the need for CO detector.

As other said, CO would come from the hobs when there is no proper ventilation.

I always keep the side window and the opposite front window slightly open when cooking.

Has ever anyone had the CO detector alarm triggered?

There was a post on this very forum of a crushed exhaust manafold from new that was leaking fumes I suspect including no and co into the cab area.

The chap was feeling rough for sometime snd put it down to a virus. He then loaned the vehicle to his family. I recall family and kids all got sick. Could have been worse if they hadnt figured it out. All because of overtightening of the bolts.

For the cost of a CO alarm
it just seems a simple peace of mind item that will probably never make a sound in years of happy camping.

I have actually had one go off too, albeit in a t25 not a Cali and we were driving along too.

 

[flying banana]

Pointless. When you use the hob I assume you are awake ? In that case just open a window. I just cant imagine someone rustling up a full English with all the windows shut and the roof down anyway. I use wind deflectors and leave the windows open an inch permanently when camping. The diesel heater exhausts outside the van. A gas leak would drop Out the bottom of the container anyway , and even if it didn't the alarm wouldn't operate. The best place for a co2 alarm is in your house near the boiler.
You can be over cautious with all this and taking fire blankets, alarms , gas lockers, suits of armour, bubble wrap etc is overkill. Just use your noggin

 

[andyinluton]

You can be over cautious with all this and taking fire blankets, alarms , gas lockers, suits of armour, bubble wrap etc is overkill. Just use your noggin

I almost totally agree with you, I do however keep a fire blanket within reach of the stove.

As part of the fire training I've done through work, I know how to use one. I would hate to have my bacon burning & have to unzip awning doors etc to get it away from the van.

 

[GrannyJen]

I almost totally agree with you, I do however keep a fire blanket within reach of the stove.

As part of the fire training I've done through work, I know how to use one. I would hate to have my bacon burning & have to unzip awning doors etc to get it away from the van.

I had to use mine once.

Not a pleasant experience seeing sheets of flame suddenly appear from the left hand hob and spreading towards the wardrobe.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

They’re so inexpensive to buy (about £13) and have a battery life of 10 years, so at £1.30 per year it’s cheap ‘just in case’ insurance.