New Club Joker Owner

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

I'm impressed with your knowledge and abilities which are out of my league BUT I still would like an answer to my batteries situation.
Can it be right that with lights and fridge on for several hours, one leisure battery drops its voltage from 12.4v to 11.4v whilst the other stayed at 12.5v?
Seems wrong to me. But is it? Is there some crazy Westfalia thing going on here?

With mismatched sizes I’m not surprised. The 75Ah would have a vintage drop before the 90Ah would.


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[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

With mismatched sizes I’m not surprised. The 75Ah would have a vintage drop before the 90Ah would.


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*voltage


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[The Blue Merle]

what is your display voltage saying on the westfalia controller.
All I can say is try 24/36hrs with heater and fridge etc on. Then test the second battery.
I thought there was some setup monitoring device to take account of the different batteries. So maybe one has to drop before it switches to the second. It’s the westfalia display info you need to look at if that’s lower than 11.2v after several hours then there is problem.
It’s a rubbish setup totally agree.

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

what is your display voltage saying on the westfalia controller.
All I can say is try 24/36hrs with heater and fridge etc on. Then test the second battery.
I thought there was some setup monitoring device to take account of the different batteries. So maybe one has to drop before it switches to the second. It’s the westfalia display info you need to look at if that’s lower than 11.2v after several hours then there is problem.
It’s a rubbish setup totally agree.

The problem is Westfalia doesn’t even do a “proper” parallel connection from the batteries to balance loads evenly. I rewired everything myself. All loads are connected to the left battery (drivers side in my LHD) so that battery was taking a large hit for both loads and charging vs the battery on the right. I rewired this in a proper way using busbars and now both batteries are perfectly balanced. I’d share some photos here but maybe better in my own thread as I have many more devices (MPPT’s, BuckBoost, Cerbo GX) vs a stock van.

If I were stuck in the situation as the OP and had no way out or budget to change something I’d swap the batteries side to side so the larger battery is directly connected to the loads vs the other way around. That would be a short term fix until I could change the 75 for equal capacity or for LiPo’s.


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[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

I asked AI and here’s the answer for the OP. Exactly as I’ve been stating:

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/b7c67384-8291-424b-b58d-8a44d28486f7

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[The Blue Merle]

Had mine swapped out as soon as I got my silver one back in 2018 it was a second hand van so a lot easier than doing it on a brand new one.
Had two 110 fitted, worked great back then.
Van is crying out for a setup like yours webbah

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

Here’s another AI answer about the risks of connecting different size AGM batteries in parallel:

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/b7c67384-8291-424b-b58d-8a44d28486f7

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[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

Had mine swapped out as soon as I got my silver one back in 2018 it was a second van too so a lot easier than doing it on a brand new one.
Had two 110 fitted, worked great back then.
Van is crying out for a setup like yours webbah

I also had mine swapped out for LiPo before delivery so don’t even know what it had originally.


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[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

Here’s another AI answer about the risks of connecting different size AGM batteries in parallel:

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/b7c67384-8291-424b-b58d-8a44d28486f7

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Looks like the same link as my above post. Sorry. Need to click on the follow ups below the answer.


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[Glenhyrst]

Thanks. There are other references online that say there is not a problem with parallel connections between batteries of the same voltage, age and type but with differing Ahs.
But which to believe?
And it seems beyond any doubt that the 75Ah + 95Ah batteries are what Westfalia fit. Although mine is 70Ah + 95Ah.
And Wandahome told me that there was no room under the passenger (left side seat) to fit a 95Ah battery.
Contact with Westfalia to try to get to the bottom of this seems impossible and Wandahome having sold the vehicle do not seem in much of a hurry to help with this.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Thanks. There are other references online that say there is not a problem with parallel connections between batteries of the same voltage, age and type but with differing Ahs.
But which to believe?
And it seems beyond any doubt that the 75Ah + 95Ah batteries are what Westfalia fit. Although mine is 70Ah + 95Ah.
And Wandahome told me that there was no room under the passenger (left side seat) to fit a 95Ah battery.
Contact with Westfalia to try to get to the bottom of this seems impossible and Wandahome having sold the vehicle do not seem in much of a hurry to help with this.

Ask Campersales - they are very helpful and sell alot of Jokers so will most probably know.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Need another van first.
Toying with a self build transit trail 350 spend less travel more idea at the mo.
But who knows if a nice joker with no leaks comes up could be tempted but £108k for new 4motion is way out of my happy place

The prices are madness. Transit trail looks good and super solid.

 

[The Blue Merle]

Ask Campersales - they are very helpful and sell alot of Jokers so will most probably know.

Great at looking after their own customers and now have lots of them, so wouldn’t want Wandahomes. Westfalia dealers aren’t the same as vw the dealer.
The dealer that sells you it pretty much needs to be the one to look after.
Another dealer would put you behind all of their own customers.
Best to establish if you have an issue, and then if there is put it in an email to the dealer that sold it.
So you now have written proof.
The dealer will need to deal with it.

 

[The Blue Merle]

The prices are madness. Transit trail looks good and super solid.

I like the look of the h2 l3 wouldn’t be able to stand up straight in it fully but think I prefer h2 over the h3.
The AWD sell 2nd sell for around £15-20k less than crafter or MAN compromise is it’s a Ford.
Extra money would fund more toys for conversion or more trips away.
Still undecided at the mo, and AWD trails are rare

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

I like the look of the h2 l3 wouldn’t be able to stand up straight in it fully but think I prefer h2 over the h3.
The AWD sell 2nd sell for around £15-20k less than crafter or MAN compromise is it’s a Ford.
Extra money would fund more toys for conversion or more trips away.
Still undecided at the mo, and AWD trails are rare

Solar? Put this on your Jimmy.

Jackery Solar Rooftop Tent

Jackery has combined a rooftop tent with its solar charging system for an integrated off-grid power solution. The clamshell design opens upwards while a row of solar panels deploy from each side, enough to produce up to 1000W in good...

uncrate.com

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[The Blue Merle]

Solar? Put this on your Jimmy.

Jackery Solar Rooftop Tent

Jackery has combined a rooftop tent with its solar charging system for an integrated off-grid power solution. The clamshell design opens upwards while a row of solar panels deploy from each side, enough to produce up to 1000W in good...

uncrate.com

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Would tip over. Jimny wobbles like mad with very little on roof and payload is only 30kg including bars!
Some YouTuber have done it and said the Jimny handles ok, but the main guy Geordie Jimny camper has been trying to shave weight off the roof for years and even built his own roof tent and has updated suspension.

May get one for the Ford as extra sleeping if I go that route.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Great at looking after their own customers and now have lots of them, so wouldn’t want Wandahomes. Westfalia dealers aren’t the same as vw the dealer.
The dealer that sells you it pretty much needs to be the one to look after.
Another dealer would put you behind all of their own customers.
Best to establish if you have an issue, and then if there is put it in an email to the dealer that sold it.
So you now have written proof.
The dealer will need to deal with it.

I have never purchased anything from campersales. The owner used to live just down the road from us. They have always been incredibly helpful with recommending suppliers even though they gain nothing from it.

Quite sure that they would be able to tell the OP the correct leisure battery sizes that the Joker came supplied with from VW.

If the original dealer has fed the OP bullsh&t upon purchase, it’s likely to they will continue to do so until the purchaser gives up and resolves the issue themselves.

 

[Glenhyrst]

"Quite sure that they would be able to tell the OP the correct leisure battery sizes that the Joker came supplied with from VW"
After initial confusion at their (Campersales) end, they confirmed that Westfalia do fit a 75Ah with a 95Ah additional leisure battery - if the additional battery is specified.
Given that I have not spent any money with Campersales I am loathe to take too much advantage of their good nature.
I await word from Wandahome. They work to a business plan that is at variance with my expectation, but maybe I have just been unlucky.
At this stage, I am still unsure whether what seems to be a problem of battery function, with regard to the second leisure battery, is in fact a problem at all. Maybe once the main battery had died it will spring into life. Or not.
"A LIFETIME OF ADVENTURE STARTS AT WANDAHOME" - can't argue with that - nearly 4 months of adventure so far. And all for less than 90k. Who could wish for more?

 

[The Blue Merle]

"Quite sure that they would be able to tell the OP the correct leisure battery sizes that the Joker came supplied with from VW"
After initial confusion at their (Campersales) end, they confirmed that Westfalia do fit a 75Ah with a 95Ah additional leisure battery - if the additional battery is specified.
Given that I have not spent any money with Campersales I am loathe to take too much advantage of their good nature.
I await word from Wandahome. They work to a business plan that is at variance with my expectation, but maybe I have just been unlucky.
At this stage, I am still unsure whether what seems to be a problem of battery function, with regard to the second leisure battery, is in fact a problem at all. Maybe once the main battery had died it will spring into life. Or not.
"A LIFETIME OF ADVENTURE STARTS AT WANDAHOME" - can't argue with that - nearly 4 months of adventure so far. And all for less than 90k. Who could wish for more?

At least yours wasn’t built by westfalia with a massive leak and other issues, luckily my dealer was super quick with dealing with everything (campersales).
Sorry to hear Wandahomes aren’t being helpful, spending that sort of money you expect them to get it in and check 1hr job really.
Good luck

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

So I just had a chat with my trusted mechanic and he works on many many Westfalia's. Apparently this is true about the mismatched batteries for not only the Club Joker but also the Sven Heden vans. He was also stumped when he first came across this awhile back and Westfalia insisted it was due to space issues under the left seat. Needless to say it would have been better to then use the same Ah batteries under each seat but it is what it is. This is why the majority of his customers do a swap to LiPo 100Ah batts... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is highly unlikely Westfalia will rectify this.

 

[Glenhyrst]

So I just had a chat with my trusted mechanic and he works on many many Westfalia's. Apparently this is true about the mismatched batteries for not only the Club Joker but also the Sven Heden vans. He was also stumped when he first came across this awhile back and Westfalia insisted it was due to space issues under the left seat. Needless to say it would have been better to then use the same Ah batteries under each seat but it is what it is. This is why the majority of his customers do a swap to LiPo 100Ah batts... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it is highly unlikely Westfalia will rectify this.

I would be happy to accept the disparity in battery capacities even if this is less than the best option.
My concern now is about the apparent inactivity of the 2nd battery. I would have expected that in use, both would show similar voltage drops, or at the very least, some sign of being present at the party.
If there is a problem, I would like it fixing - before I sell the blessed vehicle!

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

I would be happy to accept the disparity in battery capacities even if this is less than the best option.
My concern now is about the apparent inactivity of the 2nd battery. I would have expected that in use, both would show similar voltage drops, or at the very least, some sign of being present at the party.
If there is a problem, I would like it fixing - before I sell the blessed vehicle!

I can certainly appreciate your frustration however you’ll almost certainly lose more selling the van vs a relatively cheap fix. The Club Joker is a great van for its size and solid base to build from. Every manufacturer cuts costs in some fashion. Hymer, Westfalia, VW, Frankia, etc. Don’t make a rash decision out of frustration. My 2 pence!


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[Glenhyrst]

I can certainly appreciate your frustration however you’ll almost certainly lose more selling the van vs a relatively cheap fix. The Club Joker is a great van for its size and solid base to build from. Every manufacturer cuts costs in some fashion. Hymer, Westfalia, VW, Frankia, etc. Don’t make a rash decision out of frustration. My 2 pence!


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You are of course correct. I regret not having researched the situation more thoroughly before my purchase and I might have come to the conclusion that a dependence on effectively one provider to service/carry out warranty work on the habitation area was a risky option.
But it is as it is and the van is useable without it seems its full battery potential and the stop/start not working. Both problems from the word go.
I am still optimistic about a fix and maybe, having shed my tears of regret, get to like the beast.
And once the warranty period comes to an end, perhaps I will look elsewhere for a committed engineer/technician.
I do wonder how others manage who live further from their sales outlet than do I - mine just a puny 80 mile round trip.

 

[The Blue Merle]

You are of course correct. I regret not having researched the situation more thoroughly before my purchase and I might have come to the conclusion that a dependence on effectively one provider to service/carry out warranty work on the habitation area was a risky option.
But it is as it is and the van is useable without it seems its full battery potential and the stop/start not working. Both problems from the word go.
I am still optimistic about a fix and maybe, having shed my tears of regret, get to like the beast.
And once the warranty period comes to an end, perhaps I will look elsewhere for a committed engineer/technician.
I do wonder how others manage who live further from their sales outlet than do I - mine just a puny 80 mile round trip.

The stop start problem maybe due to they sit in Germany westy factory waiting to get converted 6mth plus and then get aftermarket alarm fitted which drains battery even more.
I was doing about 1000miles a month and took about a month two for my stop start to kick in and work.
So if yours is sat on drive having very little use the main battery will be below the limits for stop/start to work.
Wait for the fun and games to start going to vw with a German import van. Had to get both my jokers on there data base even though the new one was pdi by vw.
They are great vans but getting dated now for the money you pay for 90s tech(controller) and no insulation. Wait for the flashing lights when the heater kicks in.
That being said I would still have another van, all vans have niggles and lacking in someone way.
Try to focus on the amazing places they take you.

Fingers crossed it’s all simple silly stuff and Wandahomes become helpful, I would have swapped the issues mine had for yours all day long!!!

 

[Glenhyrst]

The stop start problem maybe due to they sit in Germany westy factory waiting to get converted 6mth plus and then get aftermarket alarm fitted which drains battery even more.
I was doing about 1000miles a month and took about a month two for my stop start to kick in and work.
So if yours is sat on drive having very little use the main battery will be below the limits for stop/start to work.
Wait for the fun and games to start going to vw with a German import van. Had to get both my jokers on there data base even though the new one was pdi by vw.
They are great vans but getting dated now for the money you pay for 90s tech(controller) and no insulation. Wait for the flashing lights when the heater kicks in.
That being said I would still have another van, all vans have niggles and lacking in someone way.
Try to focus on the amazing places they take you.

Fingers crossed it’s all simple silly stuff and Wandahomes become helpful, I would have swapped the issues mine had for yours all day long!!!

Who says there won't be more problems!!
But I have already attended to the lower bed support and strut.
And the vehicle battery voltage is well up to speed. I'm not bothered about the Stop/Start but would prefer that those elements that should work, do so.
When the time comes to sell, the next buyer may not be as patient as I have had to be.
Where is the insulation deficit, apart from the back door? And what did you do about it?
PS - I quite like driving the beast. And thankfully my wife likes travelling in the passenger seat.
Just as well as it's her fault we have it - a relatively private toilet and a shower too was what sold it to her.