Tough decision to call?

[Trail Planner]

I own a T4 Cali Event (2001), purchased new in 2001 and I am thinking about a new van. (see my long term review posted before https://trailplanner.co.uk/2020/09/14/vw-california-event-long-term-review-19-years/)

Options:

1. Keep the T4 - it runs like a dream after 20-years with no major issues and it is appreciating in value
2. Sell the T4 and purchase a new T6.1 for c £70-75k (ouch) - wait 12-month
3. Sell the T4 and purchase a new Marco Polo for c £65k (ouch) - wait 6-12-months
4. Wait for a couple of years for the T7 - I am convinced this will appear as a Cali in 2023 or thereabouts

I am very impressed with the new MP, they have solved most issues, it will drive better, but make me nervous exploring wet fields and distant lighthouse tracks (low ground clearance, rear-wheel drive and low profile tyres). The electric rock-and-roll seat is overkill, a silver screen will address the appalling front curtain fitment and the remainder an acceptable compromise - but it is a bit flash.

A new VW 6.1 has lots of goodies as standard, but you have to be disciplined on options. I like the quality and design, it will be more van-like than the MP, and shorter in length + big community now of Cali owners (that was not the case in 2001 when other Cali's in the UK were rare). Overall I am impressed with the refined development each year, there are a lot of neat touches.

I am tempted by Option 4, as I believe owning a diesel will become problematic, affecting depreciation and/or running costs. AdBlue is a pain too. That risk is lower if I keep my T4 and it should continue to pass emission MOTs for a while as Euro 3. I would foresee hybrid petrol/battery as a great camper build, PHEV or otherwise – lower emissions, the battery can be used for the interior functions, and it will have the capability to be autonomous over longer distances to ventures in the back of beyond.

How will the small campervan design/market evolve over the next 5-10 years? What should I do?

Martyn

 

[WelshGas]

I own a T4 Cali Event (2001), purchased new in 2001 and I am thinking about a new van. (see my long term review posted before https://trailplanner.co.uk/2020/09/14/vw-california-event-long-term-review-19-years/)

Options:

1. Keep the T4 - it runs like a dream after 20-years with no major issues and it is appreciating in value
2. Sell the T4 and purchase a new T6.1 for c £70-75k (ouch) - wait 12-month
3. Sell the T4 and purchase a new Marco Polo for c £65k (ouch) - wait 6-12-months
4. Wait for a couple of years for the T7 - I am convinced this will appear as a Cali in 2023 or thereabouts

I am very impressed with the new MP, they have solved most issues, it will drive better, but make me nervous exploring wet fields and distant lighthouse tracks (low ground clearance, rear-wheel drive and low profile tyres). The electric rock-and-roll seat is overkill, a silver screen will address the appalling front curtain fitment and the remainder an acceptable compromise - but it is a bit flash.

A new VW 6.1 has lots of goodies as standard, but you have to be disciplined on options. I like the quality and design, it will be more van-like than the MP, and shorter in length + big community now of Cali owners (that was not the case in 2001 when other Cali's in the UK were rare). Overall I am impressed with the refined development each year, there are a lot of neat touches.

I am tempted by Option 4, as I believe owning a diesel will become problematic, affecting depreciation and/or running costs. AdBlue is a pain too. That risk is lower if I keep my T4 and it should continue to pass emission MOTs for a while as Euro 3. I would foresee hybrid petrol/battery as a great camper build, PHEV or otherwise – lower emissions, the battery can be used for the interior functions, and it will have the capability to be autonomous over longer distances to ventures in the back of beyond.

How will the small campervan design/market evolve over the next 5-10 years? What should I do?

Martyn

Check out the Marco Polo Forum regarding:-
1. Blistering on the Fibreglass roof
2. Cracks appearing on 2-3 yr old vehicles on the roof.

I would wait - Option 4.

 

[andyinluton]

I wouldn't want to be an early adopter of option 4.
If you've had the current van 20 years why change now? Wait till the T7 is out, give it a couple of years to settle down & change in about 2027

 

[GrannyJen]

Option 4.

You have a lovely vehicle, costing you nowt, possibly appreciating, and huge changes in the near future.

See what the near future brings.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Option 1 sounds the most reliable…

 

[B J G]

Hybrids are getting reports of worse actual pollution than diesels. cold starting of hybrid engine when battery low appears to be the cause.

Logic says Option 1 until the pros drop off. In real terms it is more pollution friendly than the production of a new build replacement. politics are another issue.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Option 1

 

[subthree]

If it ain't broke...

 

[Velma's Dad]

Option 1 all the way (and/but keep 4 under review). Lovely van , why would you want to change it.

 

[Defender90]

Option 1 defo
the world is changing anything can happen.stick with what you know for now.

 

[Camperfamily]

another vote for #1

 

[2haw]

Place an order now for a new one and spend the next year deciding. If you decide to keep the T4, I’m pretty sure you’ll get your deposit back.

 

[66tim99]

Place an order now for a new one and spend the next year deciding. If you decide to keep the T4, I’m pretty sure you’ll get your deposit back.

A few weeks ago, before the recent £5k deposit/no final price certainty shenanigans I’d have agreed. Now I’m not as sure, but if you didn’t want it, I’m sure you’d find a buyer to take it off your hands easily, probably for a profit

 

[SFO]

Marco Polo is nice but you can instantly tell it hasn't had the years of development of the California. Plus MP is made by Westfalia while Cali is full OEM.

things about MP that are not as good as Cali 6.1

• storage of external table and 2 chairs in separate storage bag in the rear
• window blinds in cabin
• rear seat folding - electric seats slow and more things to go wrong - the power cable also gets in the way
• internal table flimsy
• old and clunky control panel
• no external shower option
• upper bed doesn't have Cali's new spring system
• no adjustable angle function on lower bed
  

things MB does better

• more legroom and space as longer - but rear storage compromised due to table and chairs bag
• opening rear window on tailgate
• opening rear window on driver's side
• leather upholstery standard - leather not available on Cali

 

[66tim99]

opening rear window on driver's side

You do get that on a 6.1 Ocean

 

[Nich]

Hej You know what you got and what then........option no. 1

 

[Trail Planner]

The wisdom of crowds (forum) is wonderful. Options 1 and 4 prevail at the moment.

Cracks on MP roof - urgh.

Regarding the MP and comments from @SFO :

• I would ditch all the MP external table/chairs and rear bag and get better items and I would rarely use the Cali items, to be honest, but that is a personal preference
• Blinds are weak, but secrecy glass covers that
• The new control panel is integrated with the new MBUX system - it is really good on 2022 models - take a new look at MB videos at
• External shower now included
• I thought the T6.1 table was flimsy too, compared to my rock-solid T4 table
• The upper bed has those springs now and the lower bed does have angle adjustment
• It has a sunroof! (checking if this is true for the UK market)

My only real gripe is the electric folding seat - everything else is sorted or I have alternative solutions. Note that the VW California T4 is a Westfalia conversion, and that has stood the test of time. It was only when Mercedes bought the Westfalia (in 2000 I think) that VW started building their own conversion. Initial, I was not impressed by early T5s. The T4 Cali was built on the VW production line and all items were under full VW warranty. MP has now taken that over and I believe that it is built on the MB production line in South Africa.

In the Cali's favour (for me):

• Cali community and network
• Fabric trim preferred over leather
• Wider beds
• Design seems lighter (weight), but I note the VW T6.1 is a heavier vehicle than an MP
• Smalller (length on MP is over 5m) and FWD

Option 2,3 - a decision closer than it used to be, but a £10k saving for a similar spec is significant, considering a much better drive and luxurious interior.

 

[Paul G - 2022 Ocean]

I own a T4 Cali Event (2001), purchased new in 2001 and I am thinking about a new van. (see my long term review posted before https://trailplanner.co.uk/2020/09/14/vw-california-event-long-term-review-19-years/)

Options:

1. Keep the T4 - it runs like a dream after 20-years with no major issues and it is appreciating in value
2. Sell the T4 and purchase a new T6.1 for c £70-75k (ouch) - wait 12-month
3. Sell the T4 and purchase a new Marco Polo for c £65k (ouch) - wait 6-12-months
4. Wait for a couple of years for the T7 - I am convinced this will appear as a Cali in 2023 or thereabouts

I am very impressed with the new MP, they have solved most issues, it will drive better, but make me nervous exploring wet fields and distant lighthouse tracks (low ground clearance, rear-wheel drive and low profile tyres). The electric rock-and-roll seat is overkill, a silver screen will address the appalling front curtain fitment and the remainder an acceptable compromise - but it is a bit flash.

A new VW 6.1 has lots of goodies as standard, but you have to be disciplined on options. I like the quality and design, it will be more van-like than the MP, and shorter in length + big community now of Cali owners (that was not the case in 2001 when other Cali's in the UK were rare). Overall I am impressed with the refined development each year, there are a lot of neat touches.

I am tempted by Option 4, as I believe owning a diesel will become problematic, affecting depreciation and/or running costs. AdBlue is a pain too. That risk is lower if I keep my T4 and it should continue to pass emission MOTs for a while as Euro 3. I would foresee hybrid petrol/battery as a great camper build, PHEV or otherwise – lower emissions, the battery can be used for the interior functions, and it will have the capability to be autonomous over longer distances to ventures in the back of beyond.

How will the small campervan design/market evolve over the next 5-10 years? What should I do?

Martyn

Option1 and wait to see what T7 looks like as a Cali and in what power train options. Don’t expect PHEV though as VW are fully invested into EV now as far as electrification goes. But in vans PHEV does make sense if they can overcome the battery weight and still get good battery range when battery technology advances. Or perhaps a set up like LEVC.
We sold our T5 camper (not Cali) back in August to take advantage of strong values and ordered a new T6.1 Ocean. We won’t see it until next summer but I’m starting to regret it as we miss the T5 now and it was bought and paid for. I also wonder if build quality will be affected in 2022 models in the pressure to get them built and delivered. So if I was in your shoes, option 1, working towards option 4.

 

[Toothlessjon]

No 1. and use the 65k to take a world cruise.

 

[Holidaymaker]

Option 5 - waiting full electric California purpose making - may it be T9 and keeping T4.

Technology today super, tomorrow a world we cannot today believe can be possible, but will come real.

Year 2036 we can be look behind and cannot believe how is much moving machine technology is change.

Same is people 1940 express steam train power 60km/h and is today super electric trains 300km/h - make same quantity change today and 15 years today - you cannot believe is real T9 California.

Is even more wonderful 15 years we can reading here this same talking program and looking rear direction how we think in 2036 what we not believe in 2021!.

 

[The Blue Merle]

The wisdom of crowds (forum) is wonderful. Options 1 and 4 prevail at the moment.

Cracks on MP roof - urgh.

Regarding the MP and comments from @SFO :

• I would ditch all the MP external table/chairs and rear bag and get better items and I would rarely use the Cali items, to be honest, but that is a personal preference
• Blinds are weak, but secrecy glass covers that
• The new control panel is integrated with the new MBUX system - it is really good on 2022 models - take a new look at MB videos at
• External shower now included
• I thought the T6.1 table was flimsy too, compared to my rock-solid T4 table
• The upper bed has those springs now and the lower bed does have angle adjustment
• It has a sunroof! (checking if this is true for the UK market)

My only real gripe is the electric folding seat - everything else is sorted or I have alternative solutions. Note that the VW California T4 is a Westfalia conversion, and that has stood the test of time. It was only when Mercedes bought the Westfalia (in 2000 I think) that VW started building their own conversion. Initial, I was not impressed by early T5s. The T4 Cali was built on the VW production line and all items were under full VW warranty. MP has now taken that over and I believe that it is built on the MB production line in South Africa.

In the Cali's favour (for me):

• Cali community and network
• Fabric trim preferred over leather
• Wider beds
• Design seems lighter (weight), but I note the VW T6.1 is a heavier vehicle than an MP
• Smalller (length on MP is over 5m) and FWD

Option 2,3 - a decision closer than it used to be, but a £10k saving for a similar spec is significant, considering a much better drive and luxurious interior.

You missed option 5 a westfalia club joker hightop

 

[Toothlessjon]

Option 5 - waiting full electric California purpose making - may it be T9 and keeping T4.

Technology today super, tomorrow a world we cannot today believe can be possible, but will come real.

Year 2036 we can be look behind and cannot believe how is much moving machine technology is change.

Same is people 1940 express steam train power 60km/h and is today super electric trains 300km/h - make same quantity change today and 15 years today - you cannot believe is real T9 California.

Is even more wonderful 15 years we can reading here this same talking program and looking rear direction how we think in 2036 what we not believe in 2021!.

I thought we only had 12 years left, that’s my financial planning up the wall!

 

[Paul G - 2022 Ocean]

The wisdom of crowds (forum) is wonderful. Options 1 and 4 prevail at the moment.

Cracks on MP roof - urgh.

Regarding the MP and comments from @SFO :

• I would ditch all the MP external table/chairs and rear bag and get better items and I would rarely use the Cali items, to be honest, but that is a personal preference
• Blinds are weak, but secrecy glass covers that
• The new control panel is integrated with the new MBUX system - it is really good on 2022 models - take a new look at MB videos at
• External shower now included
• I thought the T6.1 table was flimsy too, compared to my rock-solid T4 table
• The upper bed has those springs now and the lower bed does have angle adjustment
• It has a sunroof! (checking if this is true for the UK market)

My only real gripe is the electric folding seat - everything else is sorted or I have alternative solutions. Note that the VW California T4 is a Westfalia conversion, and that has stood the test of time. It was only when Mercedes bought the Westfalia (in 2000 I think) that VW started building their own conversion. Initial, I was not impressed by early T5s. The T4 Cali was built on the VW production line and all items were under full VW warranty. MP has now taken that over and I believe that it is built on the MB production line in South Africa.

In the Cali's favour (for me):

• Cali community and network
• Fabric trim preferred over leather
• Wider beds
• Design seems lighter (weight), but I note the VW T6.1 is a heavier vehicle than an MP
• Smalller (length on MP is over 5m) and FWD

Option 2,3 - a decision closer than it used to be, but a £10k saving for a similar spec is significant, considering a much better drive and luxurious interior.

I was in favour of ordering a MP, but my partner prefers the VW community. In a way she is right. But there definitely is a dubtax as some non-VW owners call it.

 

[calibusje]

I own a T4 Cali Event (2001), purchased new in 2001 and I am thinking about a new van. (see my long term review posted before https://trailplanner.co.uk/2020/09/14/vw-california-event-long-term-review-19-years/)

Options:

1. Keep the T4 - it runs like a dream after 20-years with no major issues and it is appreciating in value
2. Sell the T4 and purchase a new T6.1 for c £70-75k (ouch) - wait 12-month
3. Sell the T4 and purchase a new Marco Polo for c £65k (ouch) - wait 6-12-months
4. Wait for a couple of years for the T7 - I am convinced this will appear as a Cali in 2023 or thereabouts

I am very impressed with the new MP, they have solved most issues, it will drive better, but make me nervous exploring wet fields and distant lighthouse tracks (low ground clearance, rear-wheel drive and low profile tyres). The electric rock-and-roll seat is overkill, a silver screen will address the appalling front curtain fitment and the remainder an acceptable compromise - but it is a bit flash.

A new VW 6.1 has lots of goodies as standard, but you have to be disciplined on options. I like the quality and design, it will be more van-like than the MP, and shorter in length + big community now of Cali owners (that was not the case in 2001 when other Cali's in the UK were rare). Overall I am impressed with the refined development each year, there are a lot of neat touches.

I am tempted by Option 4, as I believe owning a diesel will become problematic, affecting depreciation and/or running costs. AdBlue is a pain too. That risk is lower if I keep my T4 and it should continue to pass emission MOTs for a while as Euro 3. I would foresee hybrid petrol/battery as a great camper build, PHEV or otherwise – lower emissions, the battery can be used for the interior functions, and it will have the capability to be autonomous over longer distances to ventures in the back of beyond.

How will the small campervan design/market evolve over the next 5-10 years? What should I do?

Martyn

Nice T4 and the 150 horsepower is rare. In a way I understand you: keep that old faithful T4 westfalia or not. I suspect that you know what you want: a new california or Marco Polo (back westfalia and although they are now French, the quality is certainly comparable to the volkswagen california. I like them too, but that's personal); + maybe keep the T4?
The things that are much more pleasant with the california from VW itself (T5 and onward) are: movable table at the kitchen unit so that you do not have to remove that heavy table from the bench every time; the outdoor table that is in the sliding door and no longer takes up space in the trunk and the same for the two folding chairs in the tailgate.
You know the advantages of a small camper like the California well enough and you also have them in new ones.
I don't know about your low emission zones but here in Europe I prefer to drive around with one that is recent so we don't get unexpected and overly expensive fines.
Still, it is and remains difficult: we have a T4 westfalia california from 1991, 5-cylinder diesel (78hp). Fully in order and very original and no rust like later T4s (rust treatment first year westfalia california built in the Audi car factory). But we have ordered a new T6.1 coast (I don't want an electro-hydraulic roof, so no ocean for me but everyone has their own idea about this). We opted for an evolution from old to new and will be very pleased with the above mentioned improvements compared to the westfalia california, but certainly with air conditioning while driving and more horsepower.
For now we make our holidays with the old one and enjoy her very much the way she is. Do I want to keep her: of course and the money I can get for the westy is very good but isn’t near enough to let her go sentimentality
All I can add is: make a fine choice.
Greetings
Calibusje
Oh, Option 4 will not come based on what we now know as the new T7 and certainly not in 2023. I thought the California T6.1 will continue to be built until 2025. The new one will be based on the new transporter (which is not like the new T7 multivan on a passenger car chassis) and will be developed together with ford (transit).

 

[calibusje]

The wisdom of crowds (forum) is wonderful. Options 1 and 4 prevail at the moment.

Cracks on MP roof - urgh.

Regarding the MP and comments from @SFO :

• I would ditch all the MP external table/chairs and rear bag and get better items and I would rarely use the Cali items, to be honest, but that is a personal preference
• Blinds are weak, but secrecy glass covers that
• The new control panel is integrated with the new MBUX system - it is really good on 2022 models - take a new look at MB videos at
• External shower now included
• I thought the T6.1 table was flimsy too, compared to my rock-solid T4 table
• The upper bed has those springs now and the lower bed does have angle adjustment
• It has a sunroof! (checking if this is true for the UK market)

My only real gripe is the electric folding seat - everything else is sorted or I have alternative solutions. Note that the VW California T4 is a Westfalia conversion, and that has stood the test of time. It was only when Mercedes bought the Westfalia (in 2000 I think) that VW started building their own conversion. Initial, I was not impressed by early T5s. The T4 Cali was built on the VW production line and all items were under full VW warranty. MP has now taken that over and I believe that it is built on the MB production line in South Africa.

In the Cali's favour (for me):

• Cali community and network
• Fabric trim preferred over leather
• Wider beds
• Design seems lighter (weight), but I note the VW T6.1 is a heavier vehicle than an MP
• Smalller (length on MP is over 5m) and FWD

Option 2,3 - a decision closer than it used to be, but a £10k saving for a similar spec is significant, considering a much better drive and luxurious interior.

Beautiful reflections! Just to mention something: the T4 westfalia california was not made in the Volkswagen factory but assembled as a camper in the westfalia factory so not on a VW production line. It was based on a T4 multivan that was of course built in the VW factory. The Volkswagen warranty was covered on the entire vehicle as they were then also sold within the VW dealership.