Rear speaker replacement

[777111]

Hi,

Has anyone successfully gained access to the speaker pair in the rear ceiling cupboard? I very much want to upgrade & replace the OE speakers because they are very poor quality.
I guess they are accessible by removal of the covers but not sure what technique to use to avoid snapping plastic lugs.
Has anybody actually done this already?

Thanks.

 

[777111]

And here's how it's done .......

I asked a VW Tech and he explained that the speaker housing backs that are inside the roof draw is stuck down with double sided tape and need to be prized away from the draw base. Big flat bladed screwdriver or a stiff flat scraper should do it. Easy to reseal with double sided tape again.

I will have a look at this shortly. Those rear speakers are very poor.

 

[T5WOB]

i took my covers off when i had the units wrap .like the guy says get behind it .they may snap .or may come off ok .i did not put the covers back on .when the covers are off .you can see the screws holding the speakers in .

 

[IanE]

Hi - I for one would appreciate it if you could let us know how you get on with this project. Improving the quality of sound is a concern of mine too!

Cheers

Ian

 

[777111]

i took my covers off when i had the units wrap .like the guy says get behind it .they may snap .or may come off ok .i did not put the covers back on .when the covers are off .you can see the screws holding the speakers in .

The word "snap" doesn't make me feel good! But will have to give it a shot.

Can you tel me what size are the speakers? And there is just one per channel? Hoping to install component tweeter and mid-bass in place of the OE cheapskate solution!

Ta.

 

[777111]

Hi - I for one would appreciate it if you could let us know how you get on with this project. Improving the quality of sound is a concern of mine too!

Cheers

Ian

Be a pleasure.
Once I know what size the speakers are and whether it can take component speakers I will select a suitable sized Hertz or Focal replacement driver(s) and add a small (8 or 10") sub to carry the bass. They will be probably be driven by a separate amp . Something like a Kenwood KAC 8405 - so 2 channels for the rear and then other 2 channels bridged for the sub. Nothing outlandish or too costly but a good sonic output.

 

[777111]

Job done.
Thanks to the forum sponsors (SMG) who confirmed how to access the rear speakers.
Tok a bit of nerve to start any modification to an expensive vehicle but well worth it.
I have installed Focal component speakers and the difference is immense.
Will be driven by a Kenwood 8405 amp.
I would be very happy to provide details if anyone else wants to do this.

 

[markh]

I'd definitely be interested in a bit more detail of what you've done and how you've done it. I've always found the sound system a bit lacking, especially in the bass department and have had vague plans to upgrade if and when funds allow.

Thanks
Mark

 

[777111]

My experience has been very positive and the combination of a decent amp driving superior rear speakers has worked well.
The good news is I took pictures of the rear speaker install and once you know how to get to them it is easy. The external amp is in the rear cupboard - neat fit not sacrificing too much storage space. Will upload details soon.

 

[markh]

Great - thanks!

I assume you are taking a high-level input for the amp from the speaker wires then? Where did you put the sub?

 

[777111]

Great - thanks!

I assume you are taking a high-level input for the amp from the speaker wires then? Where did you put the sub?

Mark,


No - but that is an option. Using the speaker level outputs (that a Kenwood 8405 can actually take) leads to a minor increase in distortion so it is better if you can present a line level signal from an aux output. The RNS 310 that I have does have one but it is presented on the Quadlock connector and not as a pair of phonos. The next challenge is routing that cable but I think I can see a way of doing this without having to disturb carpet etc. I have done this before in my (soon to be sold) T5 camper and it was not too difficult.
I have a professional background in electronics / audio (not vehicle tho) so not so difficult. Trickiest bit is getting access to stuff and avoiding any scratches but with the advice from this forum (inc SMG) I am nearly done.
Will sort pics soon.

 

[markh]

OK - I didn't think there was a line-level output from the OEM head units, although I haven't done a great deal of research into it. Also, the thought of running wires all the way from the front fills me with dread! I hate pulling up carpet and removing plastic bits - I always seem to break them! I'd be interested in what route you end up taking.

 

[777111]

OK - I didn't think there was a line-level output from the OEM head units, although I haven't done a great deal of research into it. Also, the thought of running wires all the way from the front fills me with dread! I hate pulling up carpet and removing plastic bits - I always seem to break them! I'd be interested in what route you end up taking.

I share your concerns... but I think I can poke a wire behind the dash get it to emerge right next to carpet edge of passenger door and then just tuck it under the edge of the rubber and plastic edging. Then behind the sink and out to where my amp is. I will let you know how it goes but like you I wont be going down any carpet out route for sure! I think it wont be so difficult.
Access to the head unit was a doddle but I now need an additional Quadlock accessory plug to grab the aux line outputs on pin 2,3 & 8. Why they cant just use phono sockets ....?

Will update next week once I have the wiring adapter for the Quadlock.

 

[Andy]

OK - I didn't think there was a line-level output from the OEM head units, although I haven't done a great deal of research into it. Also, the thought of running wires all the way from the front fills me with dread! I hate pulling up carpet and removing plastic bits - I always seem to break them! I'd be interested in what route you end up taking.

I share your concerns... but I think I can poke a wire behind the dash get it to emerge right next to carpet edge of passenger door and then just tuck it under the edge of the rubber and plastic edging. Then behind the sink and out to where my amp is. I will let you know how it goes but like you I wont be going down any carpet out route for sure! I think it wont be so difficult.
Access to the head unit was a doddle but I now need an additional Quadlock accessory plug to grab the aux line outputs on pin 2,3 & 8. Why they cant just use phono sockets ....?

Will update next week once I have the wiring adapter for the Quadlock.

You could run the cable under the floor of the van, in a suitable protective sheath. Take wire behind dash then under rubber trim & into the passenger seat base. There are several wires that go under the van from there. Route cable under van to rear, not sure about how to bring up into the cupboard though.
Food for thought ??

 

[777111]

Great - thanks!

I assume you are taking a high-level input for the amp from the speaker wires then? Where did you put the sub?

Mark - looks like there isn't any pre-out from the RNS 310! The Aux Out that is referenced and adjustable on the head unit is possibly just a signal out of Aux In! Thats a guess but having connected the pins up, turned the Aux Out volume to LOUD I am getting no signal whatsoever. Rather disappointing considering the effort I went to ! Grrrr.

So I maybe back to my original plan using the quality Hi-Fi amp rear speakers and sub (under the bed BTW) with my smart phone (which all sounds very nice ) and using the 310 as nav and radio only whilst driving. Not ideal.
And I also need to cough up another £150 for European maps for the 310 !

Or I go right over the top and buy a Kenwood DNX 521 DAB replacement for it.

I will have a think ......

 

[markh]

That's a bit of a blow! I do vaguely remember reading somewhere that there were no line outs on the VW OEM devices. That's what initially put me off doing any improvements.

What do you think of so-called high quality LOCs such as:
http://davidnavone.com/product/n-rhl4-4-channel-50-watt-per-channel-line-output-converter/ ?

Are these still not up to the job do you think? I guess if the amplified signal from the RNS is ropey to start with, it's only going to make it worse.

 

[777111]

Mark,

Well yes, that looks like an option. No experience with something like this but it certainly would save a lot of grief. Think my options are -
1) Have 2 audio systems - HQ music in the rear and sat nav radio in the front - far from ideal!
2) Pickup the speaker outs as you suggest and live with any dip in quality which is an unknown.
3) replace the RNS 310 with a better sat nav / audio head unit - ***** expensive ! But I still need to buy £150 of Europe maps for the 310 so might avoid that.

Decisions.

 

[777111]

Update -

Tried option 2) just now - awful. Unbalanced, distorted and the head unit couldn't see the rear speakers so no rear fader option either.
Fail.

 

[markh]

Oh dear - not good!

I was hoping that option might be acceptable since I haven't really got the budget for a new head unit at the moment and I don't really want a completely separate audio system, as I would quite like it for driving as well.

Sounds like it's back to the drawing board. btw - did you use a separate LOC or just a speaker level input on the amp? I wonder if it makes much difference?

Mark

 

[777111]

All is not yet lost....

Last ditch attempt even having considered replacing the head unit (Kenwood - just too expensive) and I thought I would give the LOC idea a go. Bought a Vibe LOC (has remote amp turn on as a bonus - keeps wiring minimal) and the quality seems fine. Dont understand why the speaker level inputs of the Kenwood amp fell so short of the mark but this sounds ok.
Only downside is the head unit cant see a rear speaker load attached so there is no fader option in setup on the head unit so I have to et the front / back levels to optimum via amp input gain control and leave it.
So, bit contrived but a workable solution that retains the VW sat nav. Sound quality is a whole lot better and to summarise -
Upgraded far superior rear speakers
a modest 10" sub hidden next to the side of seat for bass extension
driven by a Kenwood 8405 4 (3 as bridged sub) chaneel HQ amp

Only remaining gripe is the cost of European map updates for it - £150! Harsh.

 

[Raggedroy]

All is not yet lost....

Last ditch attempt even having considered replacing the head unit (Kenwood - just too expensive) and I thought I would give the LOC idea a go. Bought a Vibe LOC (has remote amp turn on as a bonus - keeps wiring minimal) and the quality seems fine. Dont understand why the speaker level inputs of the Kenwood amp fell so short of the mark but this sounds ok.
Only downside is the head unit cant see a rear speaker load attached so there is no fader option in setup on the head unit so I have to et the front / back levels to optimum via amp input gain control and leave it.
So, bit contrived but a workable solution that retains the VW sat nav. Sound quality is a whole lot better and to summarise -
Upgraded far superior rear speakers
a modest 10" sub hidden next to the side of seat for bass extension
driven by a Kenwood 8405 4 (3 as bridged sub) chaneel HQ amp

Only remaining gripe is the cost of European map updates for it - £150! Harsh.

Hi, just thinking, would connecting a 4 ohm resistor across each of the speaker outputs fool the head unit into thinking the correct load is there and enable the fader control?

What size speakers fit in the rear?

Cheers