Polarity of Euro inverter socket

[rookeryview]

I am making up a euro plug to UK trailing socket for the inverter,(as others have already) but suddenly realised that polarity can be reversed when plugging it in - this will reverse the positive and negative in the socket and cause a problem with any item not capable of identifying this reversal.

Anyone know the left and right pin assignment in the female socket?
Is there any tripping protection for this socket?

I'll then label the plug so that we plug it in the right way round each time.
What is the likely outcome if you plug in an item back to front that doesn't normally have a figure of eight plug? (radios, laptops etc usually have figure of eight capability built in to their systems)
I would probably plug in something like a small 120w TV, and this would need to be correctly wired up surely?

 

[jts46]

Found this on internet:
There are two types of plug; a two pin plug for unearthed equipment and a three pin plug for earthed equipment. You should only use a two pin plug if your cable only has two wires; one black (or brown or red) and one blue. If there is a third wire (yellow and green) then use a three pin plug.

Two Pin Plugs: Connect each of the two wires to a different pin. It doesn't matter which way round because the French system has no fuse in the plug.

Three Pin Plugs: The earth will be marked (and is always the female pin in the centre top). Wire the green and yellow wire here. Then connect the other two wires, one to each of the other (male) pins. Again it doesn't matter which way round.


The above is what I found from the net .......... I take no responsibility for the accuracy of the information.

You could also buy a neon tester to determine the live, or a polarity tester plug

John

 

[teeboy]

The plug that fits into the inverter socket is a Euro plug:

Europlugs are only designed for low-power (less than 2.5 A) Class II (double-insulated) devices that operate at normal room temperature and do not require a protective-earth connection.

I suspect you have purchased a euro plug cable and have put a single UK extension lead socket onto that. Most of us have done that.

Strictly speaking you are not supposed to do that, as someone might think it had an earth.

However as I have said most of us do it, you just have to apply some common sense.

As a rule of thumb if the thing you are plugging in has a transformer and is less than 150 watts then you will be fine, so laptops, TVs, lights etc.

I wouldn't be plugging in toasters, kettles, power tools, as there is no earth and probably not enough power.

There are not many things that won't work when wired the wrong way round, however people make assumptions that a live wire is switched. Since none of the cali sockets have a switch this is mute.

This also why some people worry about reversed polarity on some Campsites. I don't.



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[Bramco]

Agree with teeboy, although I'm not an electrician.....

AFAIK the only device which would know a difference would be a switched socket. In the UK we have switched sockets, so as a safety measure can turn off the power to a device without having to unplug it, we also have plugs with fuses. In this case polarity matters, as you want live to be switched. On the continent if you want to turn the power off to a device you need to unplug it (although I think on higher rated circuits there will be a double pole switch, I.e. switching both wires.

Continental devices are exactly the same as devices in the UK. There aren't any of the kind you might plug into the inverter socket that care whether one lead is live or the other. These are all alternating current devices, so the electricity flows backwards and forwards, I.e the device hasn't a clue which is live because both leads appear the same. Hope that makes sense.

Having said that you can't connect something like a toaster to the inverter, it hasn't got the oomph to drive it. So a better idea would be to label the socket strip. 'Low power devices only'.

 

[rookeryview]

Thanks for all that wisdom chaps.
I'll try sticking a neon screwdriver in the holes to see what happens.
I find it amazing that it doesn't matter which way the power goes into a device - surely if you had a circuit with resistors and capacitors etc, the power needs to flow through that circuit in the right order? Maybe all factory made devices can handle this through some tricks inside.

 

[Bramco]

In general all of those types of devices first convert the alternating current to direct current. With DC it is important to know which direction the current is flowing.

 

[rookeryview]

That's why getting it right from the start is the best approach.

 

[teeboy]

No that is why getting it right or wrong at the start makes not one jot of difference.

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[rookeryview]

OK! Just put my neon stick onto the ends of a bare cable, And guess what?
Both ends show as live!
Say you made up a little circuit... Surely the order of flow going through each component in sequence is important? Or are we Just saying that every electrical device made will work back to front as long as an earth is not needed?

 

[teeboy]

No. However most things that you are going to shove into a 150w socket will work.

Remember all of this is not recommended as you are removing any safety, but if you go into this with you eyes open you will be fine.

Certain types of motors will go backwards if wired backwards, but you will mainly find these in dish washers and washing machines. Certainly beyond a 150w supply.

Most things you plug into this will go.

240v supply - to transformer - to bridge rectifier.

The bridge rectifier will sort out the positive and negative - ness.

Please note I am not a qualified electrician, and all of my knowledge comes from school physics.

I have managed to live until my mid - forties without killing myself.

If you are unsure don't do it!

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[Matthew Mills]

I know I know... I'm sorry - I can't believe I sound like my Dad!

But what about insurance?

There are typically 'lot's of clauses about 'using a suitably qualified' bod to do this type of stuff. If I did this I could guarantee Mrs M would have her hairdryer plugged in as soon as my back was turned; "well you put the plug on it... it's not my fault Ruby caught fire and now the Insurance won't pay - it's your fault!"

Now I have ordered a Euro connector to standard 'small' 2 pin used in the UK - so using the laptop example lots of pieces of equipment that are low power etc., like lots have suggested above tend to come with a 2 pin plug/socket between the cable and transformer or that plugs directly into the appliance etc...

I think that is perfectly safe as it's the intended use and is a standard cable supplied for exactly this application.

But then again... it would be handy!

 

[jts46]

Why not buy one of these?


John

 

[briwy]

Nearly all appliances nowadays are double insulated which is why they have no earth and aren't polarity conscious.
Things like TVs, phone chargers, laptop power supplies etc have to drop the voltage from mains to whatever is required. This done by a transformer which will only work on AC, not DC. The outgoing AC low voltage is then rectified to produce the DC to charge/power the various items.
Most chargers now just have a plastic earth pin which is only there to open the UK type socket covers.
If you have an appliance that has a metal earth pin then it may well need an earth so you will need to check to see if an earth is required.

 

[teeboy]

Cos they will not fit in the hole. The plug on the cali is a Euro plug, not a European plug. The Europlugs us a sort of elongated diamond shape which plugs into a European socket. It is used on double insulated devices which do not care about polarity. A feature we are circumventing by wiring g into a standard 3 pin UK socket.

Obviously this is for UK spec vehicles. We have a 3 pin UK plug (which only works when on hookup) and a euro plug which works off the leisure batteries via a 150w inverter.

I imagine euro spec vehicles have a European socket in place of the UK 3 pin socket, which works on hookup only. In which case the converter you posted will be perfect for that.

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[teeboy]

I know I know... I'm sorry - I can't believe I sound like my Dad!

But what about insurance?

There are typically 'lot's of clauses about 'using a suitably qualified' bod to do this type of stuff. If I did this I could guarantee Mrs M would have her hairdryer plugged in as soon as my back was turned; "well you put the plug on it... it's not my fault Ruby caught fire and now the Insurance won't pay - it's your fault!"

Now I have ordered a Euro connector to standard 'small' 2 pin used in the UK - so using the laptop example lots of pieces of equipment that are low power etc., like lots have suggested above tend to come with a 2 pin plug/socket between the cable and transformer or that plugs directly into the appliance etc...

I think that is perfectly safe as it's the intended use and is a standard cable supplied for exactly this application.

But then again... it would be handy!

You are correct. That is why it is a bad idea to do this, as I have said most things will work, but we are removing a level of safety.

The safest thing to do is get a euro plug to figure of 8 cable and plug that into chargers. Or buy appliances with euro us molded on. Those devices can be used in the house by using a standard UK to euro adapter.

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[briwy]

As teeboy says, they won't fit.
You need something like this

http://www.comfortzleisure.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=85_88&product_id=96

 

[jts46]

I do apologise, i have not got this socket or fitted inverter in my cali, as it is 2006 with a rusting front roof panel
I do have a european socket, original fitting, not the 13a socket as is fitted now.

John

 

[teeboy]

Weird is yours UK spec?

I assumed all UK spec vans had UK plugs and the inverter option. Is that a 5.1 thing only?

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[jts46]

Yes it is uk spec, bought from deepcar near sheffield and supplied by sheffield van centre. It is a post face lift thingy!!!

John

 

[teeboy]

I suppose it feels more like a holiday if you need a euro converter to use it

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[rookeryview]

So that £15 device has some magic inside - yes? What is that magic?

 

[Matthew Mills]

£1.87 and safe... Simple

 

[rookeryview]

Got one! But the other end won't fit my TV. It has a wired UK plug.

 

[WelshGas]

So that £15 device has some magic inside - yes? What is that magic?

No. It is just a multi plug adapter that can be configured to plug in ALL European plugs etc: into the Inverter Euro Socket.

 

[briwy]

No. It is just a multi plug adapter that can be configured to plug in ALL European plugs etc: into the Inverter Euro Socket.

And into US and Australian plugs if you get the Cali that far.