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Permitted Towing Weight for a 2022 MY OCEAN 6.1 204 bhp 4 Motion - HELP!

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Peter84

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130
Location
Netherlands
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
Mine does have the towbar factory fitted but I can't tell if the other vehicles have them as it's not registered.
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
Mine does have the towbar factory fitted but I can't tell if the other vehicles have them as it's not registered.
Well Im thinking Peter, that mine will be exactly the same as yours, so if 2300kg then thats just within the parameters I require tow my boat, although I shall also request clarification from my dealer.
 
Calimili

Calimili

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1,459
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Lake Starnberg
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T6 Ocean 150 4Motion
By what I read on the german forum, VW decided to change this to avoid confusion/problems to its customers, as the train weight is, was and remains 5300kg. Putting a 2500Kg towing weight, if fully used, forces you to keep your towing vehicle weight at an unrealistic 2800kg. Since 4M Oceans comes already empty at 2700kg, they are virtually guaranteed to be over the limit, since once just one passenger gets in the van and with only 25Kg of camping equipment you are at 2800, assuming driver and wife are not overweight....
lowering the towing weight to 2300kg, VW is playing safe allowing to get the loaded van to a more realistic 3t, for a total of 5300Kg.
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
By what I read on the german forum, VW decided to change this to avoid confusion/problems to its customers, as the train weight is, was and remains 5300kg. Putting a 2500Kg towing weight, if fully used, forces you to keep your towing vehicle weight at an unrealistic 2800kg. Since 4M Oceans comes already empty at 2700kg, they are virtually guaranteed to be over the limit, since once just one passenger gets in the van and with only 25Kg of camping equipment you are at 2800, assuming driver and wife are not overweight....
lowering the towing weight to 2300kg, VW is playing safe allowing to get the loaded van to a more realistic 3t, for a total of 5300Kg.
Sounds sensible and logical but why has this taken so long for VW to make this change?
 
rod_vw

rod_vw

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1,049
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Shropshire
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Motorhome
Thanks Rod, I was having this discussion with my dealer last week and he seems to think the cross over is first week of Sept so this week.
When you get the vehicle check the 10th digit of the VIN. If it's an 'N' then it's a 2022 model if it's a 'P' then it's a 2023 model. International VIN system not unique to VW and 'O' is not used as it could be mistaken for a zero.
 
Norfolk Jim

Norfolk Jim

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383
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Norfolk
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Looking to buy
I thought towing weighs used to be linked to the towing vehicles weight and power delivery meaning a 4 M being heavier would be able to increase towing weight. I find it quite confusing that a Cali weighing in at 2700kg has max towing wieght of 2300kg and yet my 2011 Nissan X Trail T31 with 174 hp and kerb weight of 1651 and gross weight of 2170 has a train wieght of 4370 - 2200kg towing capacity with 100kg tow ball loading - what am I missing?
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

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T5 SE 180 4Motion
I thought towing weighs used to be linked to the towing vehicles weight and power delivery meaning a 4 M being heavier would be able to increase towing weight. I find it quite confusing that a Cali weighing in at 2700kg has max towing wieght of 2300kg and yet my 2011 Nissan X Trail T31 with 174 hp and kerb weight of 1651 and gross weight of 2170 has a train wieght of 4370 - 2200kg towing capacity with 100kg tow ball loading - what am I missing?
The MGW of the California is not 2700kg, but 3080kg. Mass Train Weight 5300kgm.
 
Norfolk Jim

Norfolk Jim

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Norfolk
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The MGW of the California is not 2700kg, but 3080kg. Mass Train Weight 5300kgm.
Ok but that still makes my X Trail seem light in comparison (some 910kg) to be allowed to tow 2200kg (only 100kg less than Cali)??? Those wieghts were taken of the plate on car. Must be something else in the equation - I haven't a clue about.....
 
Calimili

Calimili

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1,459
Location
Lake Starnberg
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150 4Motion
Ok but that still makes my X Trail seem light in comparison (some 910kg) to be allowed to tow 2200kg (only 100kg less than Cali)??? Those wieghts were taken of the plate on car. Must be something else in the equation - I haven't a clue about.....
It has to do a lot with suspensions too. My Q7 could tow 3500Kg because I specced air suspensions. Same car without air suspensions 2700Kg max tow weight. It also has to do with the rating of the towing hitch. There are kits here in Germany, suspension upgrades (+wheels) and towing hitch so that a Cali could load up to 3500KG and tow 3500Kg for a total train max weight of 7t. No changes required to the engine/gearbox, just upgraded suspensions and hitch.
 
Kemper-van

Kemper-van

Messages
176
Location
Belgium
Vehicle
T6.1 Beach camper 150
It has to do a lot with suspensions too. My Q7 could tow 3500Kg because I specced air suspensions. Same car without air suspensions 2700Kg max tow weight. It also has to do with the rating of the towing hitch. There are kits here in Germany, suspension upgrades (+wheels) and towing hitch so that a Cali could load up to 3500KG and tow 3500Kg for a total train max weight of 7t. No changes required to the engine/gearbox, just upgraded suspensions and hitch.
Can you share more info on how they achieve this please? I assume a TUV approval is also required?
 
Calimili

Calimili

Messages
1,459
Location
Lake Starnberg
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150 4Motion
Can you share more info on how they achieve this please? I assume a TUV approval is also required?
The procedure in Germany is relatively easy, the parts come with their own Tüv certificate for the specific application/vehicle. Once installed, the registration papers must be amended by the registration office to include the new parts and the new gross weights, axles weight and towing accordingly.
 
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OxonCalifornia

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Messages
259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
UPDATE: I have been in contact with my VW dealer today who was able to provide me with the information I required and Good news...Max towing weight is 2300kg for a 204 4Motion. They had a recently registered one in showroom and he was able to look at Vin Plate and V5 Registered Keeper Document, so all good and I can go ahead. He was unable to provide the official reason for downgrading.

Thanks for all your contributions and help...

One more query about towing...I am in my late 50's and I am sure there was a rule or legal requirement that you could only tow with a veh that was equal or more than the mass plated weight of trailer (incl load).Am I right or dreaming this? I cant find anything relating to this..was it law or just good practice or did regulations change at some point.
Now I get the impression that as long as you don't go over max permissible towing weight (and keeping in mind mas train weight or mass) of vehicle. So for example my boat trailer is plated at 2500kg but now I can tow with my cali with max towing weight of 2300kg as long as the boat load and trailer don't go over that figure....and the mass train weight is not exceeded either of cali, contents plus trailer plus boat and contents. Am I right?
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
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OXFORDSHIRE
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T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
Hi if I’ve read mine correctly 2022 registered 4 motion 2500kg.
Hope this helps
Hi Blueeyedboy - Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
I hope your van will be rated for 2500Kg in tow. In this case the total train weight will still be at 5300, so if your trailer+boat actual weight is 2300, that will allow you to load the Cali up to 3t instead of 3,08t.

if unfortunately your new van has a towing capacity lower than 2500, instead of changing the trailer, you could explore the possibility of uprating the rear suspension in order to increase both the rear axle weight and the towing back to 2500 or more.
Hi Calimili - Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
Mine was first registered in Jan 2022 in Germany ... max braked towing weight is 2500kg ... unbraked is 750kg

Below is a copy of the registration details ...

View attachment 98840
Hi CaliforniaOcean. Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
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OxonCalifornia

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Messages
259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
My 2022, 204ps 4motion (Ocean) registered in the Netherlands has a maximum towing weight (O1) of 2300kg.
Hi Peter84, - Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg as is yours - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
The train weight will be one to watch, not on my V5 but on the VIN/Chassis plate.
As above mention by @andinluton it is 5,300kgs.
A loaded 4M will be close to 3,000kgs leaving the 2,300kgs for the trailer gross weight.
Trailer plated Grosse weight can be more than 2,300kgs but you can only load it up to the combined 5,300kgs of Cali +trailer with both loaded including passengers, driver etc.

I'm sure that I saw a Van Owner mention this reduction in trailer weight but as usual finding it is another matter, however I did find this i the Spec info for Transporters (link below) >
  • Max Trailer Load, braked
    • L1H1 2200 – 2500 kg
    • L1H2 2200 – 2500 kg
    • L2H1 2200 – 2500 kg
    • L2H2 2200 – 2500 kg
    • L2H3 2200 – 2500 kg
  • Gross Train Weight
    • L1H1 4800 – 5300 kg
    • L1H2 4800 – 5300 kg
    • L2H1 4800 – 5300 kg
    • L2H2 4800 – 5300 kg
    • L2H3 4800 – 5300 kg
Hi BJG - Hi - Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
According to the configurator for vans, they are all 2500kgs braked towing weight. All Cali's, I believe are based on the T30 chassis, but downgraded due to initial weight, to a braked towing weight of 2300kgs. Suspect that the Aug 21 brochure had an incorrect 'van-related' value in there - seen this before with the Cali brochure when updates come though - sometimes the van info 'slips through' before it gets updated properly .. just my two-pence worth of a guess ..
Hi Ardm17 - Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
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OxonCalifornia

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259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
It will be the max train weight stamped on the vehicle that matters & that doesn’t appear to have changed from 5300kg.
Hi Andyinluton - Found my answer directly from my dealer now, its been reduced to 2,300kg - see my update. Thanks for your comments on this. Ian
 
California_Ocean

California_Ocean

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Messages
266
Location
Ammersee
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
So max braked towing weight is now reduced to 2300kg, but what does that mean?

The Max Combined Weight (Trailer + Van) for my van (and those at towing weights of 2300 kg) is 5300 kg - this has stayed the same.

With a max trailer weight of 2500 kg, the van + load must weigh 2800 kg or less.
The unladen weight of my van is 2607 kg, leaving me 193 kg of available load.

With a trailer weight of 2300 kg, it means the max weight of the van can be 3000 kg
This allows a van payload of 393 kg, which makes the van 3000 kg. (Still under the max laden weight for the van of 3080 kg.)

So basically, remove stuff from the trailer and put it in the van? ... I know this is not always possible but the maximum train weight has remained the same at least.

20220114_120931_copy.jpg
 
andyinluton

andyinluton

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T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
So basically, remove stuff from the trailer and put it in the van? ... I know this is not always possible but the maximum train weight has remained the same at least.

Yes just watch the load on the back axle. I would recommend a trip to a weigh bridge to check how close to any limit you are getting.

Note in the UK anything less than 5% overweight is 99.999% of the time a ticking off, under 10% a small fine. Over that & it starts to get serious & you are in trouble.
 
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OxonCalifornia

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Messages
259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
So max braked towing weight is now reduced to 2300kg, but what does that mean?

The Max Combined Weight (Trailer + Van) for my van (and those at towing weights of 2300 kg) is 5300 kg - this has stayed the same.

With a max trailer weight of 2500 kg, the van + load must weigh 2800 kg or less.
The unladen weight of my van is 2607 kg, leaving me 193 kg of available load.

With a trailer weight of 2300 kg, it means the max weight of the van can be 3000 kg
This allows a van payload of 393 kg, which makes the van 3000 kg. (Still under the max laden weight for the van of 3080 kg.)

So basically, remove stuff from the trailer and put it in the van? ... I know this is not always possible but the maximum train weight has remained the same at least.

View attachment 98990
Yes you are right to a point.
The difference is that new cali's can only legally tow up to 2300kg , not 2500kg which is trailer and load. Sometimes the load of the trailer cant be put in the vehicle which in my case is my boat (it doesn't fit)
Basically My new cali can legally tow less than your cali yet the overall train weight mass remains at 5300kg for both...VW are cutting the margins to force new cali owners to allow greater margin in payload in their van for safety, making us keep an extra 200 Kg at the front of the Cali / Trailer combination,, than the back.
 
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OxonCalifornia

VIP Member
Messages
259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
Yes just watch the load on the back axle. I would recommend a trip to a weigh bridge to check how close to any limit you are getting.

Note in the UK anything less than 5% overweight is 99.999% of the time a ticking off, under 10% a small fine. Over that & it starts to get serious & you are in trouble.
Yes - Im happy to accept the Cali now as boat towing is not precluded but I will be attending the weigh bridge at first opportunity to understand where the load distribution is and make adjustments accordingly with payload in the car and the boat.

Ive also suggested that the other half and myself go on a diet...I love that they include the notional driver at 75kg ....and the rest! :)
 
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OxonCalifornia

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Messages
259
Location
OXFORDSHIRE
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
Yes just watch the load on the back axle. I would recommend a trip to a weigh bridge to check how close to any limit you are getting.

Note in the UK anything less than 5% overweight is 99.999% of the time a ticking off, under 10% a small fine. Over that & it starts to get serious & you are in trouble.
As Ihave a twin axle trailer nose weight is not too much of an issue or addition on the rear axle but I agree I still need to be aware of the increase it makes.
 

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