Need educating

[Shake n Bake]

Hi,

I am sure there is a post here somewhere that I am failing to locate......as a total newbie who thinks an Ocean could be the answer to getting to kids out camping, I am looking for a resource that describes the pro's and con's of different trim levels and new versus used etc.

Right now, myself, the wife and kids (17,12,8) go camping just once a year for 3 nights with a big group. The wife and the eldest are my big fans but I love it. However the 3 hour ordeal of packing away a truly enormous tent and every conceivable convenience item is enough to put me off doing it more regularly.

I have it in my head that the Ocean would mean I could spontaneously bundle the younger two kids into the van and head off for random 1 or 2 nights away, where we just park and we are good to go. No tiresome setup and when we are ready to go, it's 10 mins to pack away.

Should all 5 of us go, a little popup tent with air bed should sort us out.

Question 1: is the above scenario wishful thinking or blissful reality?

Next, when contemplating new or used, I could only afford new if I did away with my main car. So I would have to do 15-20,000 miles a year for the next 2 years (or however long it really takes Elon Musk to deliver the Tesla Model 3), after which it would become my 2nd car.

Question 2: does the T6 offer a lot of benefit over earlier models?
Question 3: is it comfortable on long journeys (my 5 series estate eats up the motorway miles with ease)?

When looking at used adverts, there we some lovely and custom looking examples.

Question 4: is it generally considered better to buy factory or to get the van she'll and customise?

MANY THANKS if you've made it all the way through my long, long first post and I would appreciate any advice!!

Shake.

 

[WelshGas]

What you have suggested is perfectly possible.
1. I presume you like driving and tend to get a move on? The T5/T6 180 or 204 would give your BMW a run for the money for eating up the miles in comfort with a lot more comfort for the family.
2. As a Daily Driver not a problem. That's mine and I'm upto 37,000 miles in 21 months.
3. VW conversions can be excellent, but you are often restricted with the base vehicle. If you are looking for a new vehicle base then VW restrict models and engine sizes etc: available to approved converters.
4. If you want a 5 seater then you will be restricted to a non-4Motion vehicle to gain the 5th seat which would have to be removed for sleeping.

May I suggest you look at a 5 seater California Beach fitted with some form of Kitchen Pod . This would fulfill all your requirements .
A must accessory would be the Diesel Parking Heater which is standard on the Ocean/SE.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Question 4: is it generally considered better to buy factory or to get the van she'll and customise?

I'll let others answer the first three questions but on Q4 you're going to find that as this forum is for the VW California (ie the 'factory' campervan) then inevitably most of us are likely to advocate the genuine Cali over custom conversions of a VW T5 or T6 van.

We bought our Cali (one year old) earlier this year after looking at conversion options. If you haven't done that, then you really ought to crawl over actual examples of the offerings from the various conversion companies and compare them like-for-like with a Cali. While they may look similar on paper, in 'the flesh' you'll find they are very different. The Cali oozes quality and quiet good design that's missing on any of the conversions I've seen.

The economics are that you can get a conversion on a nearly-new base van for somewhat less than a Cali, but watch out for what's included, eg does the conversion have an auxiliary heater? For a really comparable spec to a Cali, we discovered that we'd be spending almost as much for a good conversion as for a genuine Cali. Resale values also will be much stronger for the real McCoy Cali.

Another option to look at however is the Westfalia Joker conversion on the VW T5/6. That's a completely different proposition to run of the mill conversions and competes on quality with the 'factory' Cali. The Joker layout is different from the Cali as it has a fixed high top roof and a WC/shower squeezed in at the back.

Others on the forum have much more experience on both sides, but that's just a starter for you.

EDIT: I missed your requirement for 5 seats but WelshGas has addressed that in his post just now.

 

[Hotel California]

Hi and welcome , seems you got a lot Q's on what should be the best verhicle in your case.
Try do reed some on the forum on others experiences and see how you would feel in those diffrent situ ....
Budget is the first thing . Rule that out and see you are family of five there will be a good chance you are going to end up with a beach and a (drive-away)awning .
Throw in some coockinggear and your off.
If your not camping the Beach is ideal for big family's ( and friends of....)

 

[daveyboydanger]

I'm selling a t6 beach!
Go to the Cali's for sale section to see the yellow beauty there!

 

[Hotel California]

I'm selling a t6 beach!
Go to the Cali's for sale section to see the yellow beauty there!

Why are you selling ....?

 

[daveyboydanger]

Why are you selling ....?

Bought it to rent as well as use. The rental thing didn't work out. Had to buy out right to rent it out (rather than use the cheaper monthly finance deals through VW) and so can't afford to keep the payments on my personal loan going when business isn't really taking off.
I won't be without one for long. Am addicted now.
Sad to have to let this one go.
Could be a very long wait for a replacement!

 

[Hotel California]

Guess thats why i never ever had a loan/ finance on any of my cars ....only pay cash.
Only loan i ever did and will do is for my house , still nine years to go

 

[daveyboydanger]

Guess thats why i never ever had a loan/ finance on any of my cars ....only pay cash.
Ony loan i ever did and will do is for my house.

Would love to have the freedom of no loan but it took me a couple of years to save up 25% of the cost of my beach. If I'd waited to have no finance or loan I suspect i'd never be able to have one. I wanted to be able to spend time with my kids in the van rather than only when they've left home.
We're not very wealthy as a family so this was the way we decided to go.

 

[bigmac77]

Hi and welcome. We are a family of four and have two boys ages 8 & 5, we've owned our T5.1 Cali SE 140 for 10 months now and have had a lot of trips away in it.

Q1 - For one or two nighters you can stock the van with basics supplies then on the day put in your bedding, chuck some food in the fridge and head off pretty quick. My kids always want to take bikes I find this takes ages to load them up. For longer trips you have to pack lite and be super organised especially with 5 you don't have a lot of room to play with.

Q2 - Not really

Q3 - We have the Cali plus an Q5 the Cali is more comfy on long journeys than the Audi. This summer we drove from near La Rochelle to Calais then the next day Folkestone to North Wales no problems didn't even get a numb backside.

Others have answered Q4. We rented a conversion for a week and went away for October half term to see if we could live with it (we loved it) I would say that would be the best thing for you to do before you splash nearly £50000 on a vehicle that might not be right for you.

 

[bigmac77]

With regard to seat numbers obviously I don't know your family but how long would a 17 year old continue to holiday with their parents? Maybe 4 seats in an Ocean or an SE would be fine.

 

[Amarillo]

Guess thats why i never ever had a loan/ finance on any of my cars ....only pay cash.

A sound policy.

1st car, Ford Orion; £800 cash in 1992 (worst car ever)
2nd car, Peugeot 309; £3,000 cash in 1993
3rd car, Peugeot 406, £6,000 cash in 2002 (best car ever)
4th car, Peugeot 5008, £17,000 cash in 2013
5th car, VW Beach, £41,000 cash in 2016
I will start saving now for car #6.

 

[daveyboydanger]

A sound policy.

1st car, Ford Orion; £800 cash in 1992 (worst car ever)
2nd car, Peugeot 309; £3,000 cash in 1993
3rd car, Peugeot 406, £6,000 cash in 2002 (best car ever)
4th car, Peugeot 5008, £17,000 cash in 2013
5th car, VW Beach, £41,000 cash in 2016
I will start saving now for car #6.

It is a sound policy. However you managed to save or have £41000 between 2013 and 2016. I could only save around £10000.
So it was either buy your second hand Peugeot 5008 or get finance!

 

[Keith Smith]

If you want to look at camper options the Caravan show at the NEC (15-16 October) is the place to go. I went last year and there were dozens to look at and compare; no VW California's though.

One thing to look at with conversions, especially if you want to use it as a regular driver, is that they usually use a "rock and roll" bed. We felt that they are set well (a bit too far) back in the cabin for regular use and have less headroom than the Cali which would be a problem for anyone approaching 6ft.

 

[Shake n Bake]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond, and in such detail too. Very helpful indeed. You've really given me some great insights.

Renting sounds like a very good idea indeed - should give us a real sense for the camping experience and an good view into what the day-to-day experience should be like.

 

[Shake n Bake]

4. If you want a 5 seater then you will be restricted to a non-4Motion vehicle to gain the 5th seat which would have to be removed for sleeping.

Thank you. I had not realised that the 4Motion option resulted in less seats. 5 seats is important for me.

 

[Shake n Bake]

If you want to look at camper options the Caravan show at the NEC (15-16 October) is the place to go. I went last year and there were dozens to look at and compare; no VW California's though.

One thing to look at with conversions, especially if you want to use it as a regular driver, is that they usually use a "rock and roll" bed. We felt that they are set well (a bit too far) back in the cabin for regular use and have less headroom than the Cali which would be a problem for anyone approaching 6ft.

I am above 6 foot, so it is good to know this. The NEC show sounds great and it's just 20 mins away

 

[Shake n Bake]

The Cali oozes quality and quiet good design that's missing on any of the conversions I've seen.

Quality is very important to me - thanks for this

 

[Shake n Bake]

With regard to seat numbers obviously I don't know your family but how long would a 17 year old continue to holiday with their parents? Maybe 4 seats in an Ocean or an SE would be fine.

Indeed - and she is only with us every second weekend anyway. However the more I read, the more this sounds like a great vehicle for day trips too - something we are a big fan of. Last week's beach day would have have been a damn sigh easier with a decent space to get changed in afterwards

 

[Lewis]

It is a sound policy. However you managed to save or have £41000 between 2013 and 2016. I could only save around £10000.
So it was either buy your second hand Peugeot 5008 or get finance!

My thoughts precisely. We have a similar situation. I'm 30 and our daughter is not far off 2. We could save hard for another 5yrs and buy a Cali outright when she's 7 (and not do much for those years aside from save). Alternatively we can pay a 15-20% premium over the life of the finance agreement(s) and enjoy those years and the Cali lifestyle. It's a no-brainer to me.

I have no issue with finance whatsoever as long as it's well planned, stress-tested and selective. The Cali is the perfect family vehicle, I want to enjoy it as a family!

 

[Stuart]

As a family car (which ours is too), the rail system is definitely one of the big advantages of the Cali as then the kids aren't sitting at the back of the van. Also knowing that it's all been put together in a factory by VW makes me feel happier about safety ... although I appreciate that could be nonsense!

And you're right - for us it's as much a great vehicle for day trips as well as a campervan

 

[Velma's Dad]

One thing to look at with conversions, especially if you want to use it as a regular driver, is that they usually use a "rock and roll" bed. We felt that they are set well (a bit too far) back in the cabin for regular use and have less headroom than the Cali which would be a problem for anyone approaching 6ft.

Yes, that's an important point. Only a few conversions have a seat/bed on rails (more expensive to buy and to fit in a base van) so for most you are stuck with the fixed rock-n-roll bench seat position - which I believe is dictated by the floor strongpoints in the T5 base van - and hence very limited space in the rear for gear. That was a big issue for us as we wanted to be able to accommodate a dog crate at the back (which we can easily in the Cali).

You can opt for a LWB van conversion, but in the ones I saw the extra foot or so of space that creates is in the living area, so you still don't get any extra rear luggage capacity.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi S & B, All the above points about space, everyday driver and specification of Factory build v custom and product quality are all very well made above and of course I will reiterate what Velma's Dad said - you are bound to get a slightly biased view here . That said I am not yet an owner of a Cali or a conversion but have been going through the same process as you, albiet only for me and my lady. The children are gone (for the time being)

We have looked and talked about this dilemma at all the shows, at the converters at VW directly and we even rented two custom builds and a Cali. My summary of our findings is as follows. Oh, but just before I go there you should know I used (two years ago) to drive a 3 series coupe and now a Z4 both 2.5's but one a diesel and one petrol.

Space and Flexibility - there is no doubt that a bed on rails offers much more flexibility in this area, this was an important point for us too. A fixed bed as in "Rock and Roll" gives very limited room at the back of the van for your luggage or other stuff and you can't change that. The other real down side of a fixed bed is that your passengers are a long way away from you (driver and your first passenger). they are also not as comfortable on a long journey as the Cali offering.

Specification/Price - check very thoroughly custom v factory. Really look into the detail! e.g. how do you fill the fresh water tank? We hired a custom from a very reputable converter - you have to remove the pump from a tank (10 litres) and then remove the tank from the van before you can fill it up. Moreover the only time you know you are running out of water is when you are empty! The Cali tank can be refilled from outside the van (although I think this is not the case with the Beach). It is also possible to check your levels via a small control panel. Research is hugely important before you make your decision.
In the round we found that when you spec up a a good custom build the price is almost the same as a factory build if not more. During this exercise we even had one converter admit that it was almost impossible to mach a factory spec for the same price. That got me thinking!! Of course the converter has to undo a good bit of work the factory put into a base/donor vehicle in the first place and then put some of it back. This is time consuming and costly. It is also a great source of future squeaks and rattles - you mentioned quality was important to you?

New v Second Hand? Obviously depends on personal circumstances but I like you would only go new if could be used as a daily driver. The manual is great but a bit more effort is required than a car (Clutch and Stick). Commuting? A lot of stop and start? Go for the DSG if answer yes.

Ocean spec v Beach? With five of you, you will need an extra bed. On a cost basis a Beach with a "drivaway" awning arrangement will probably be best for you with some kind of kitchen pod (as I think has already been said).

Decision? Considering detail, flexible luggage space, quality, price and resale value and the few extras you get for your money (eg Electric roof, double glazing, soft close doors, heated front seats, three zone a/c, diesel heater etc. on factory Ocean We ended up ordering a new Ocean DSG. I am in the process of taking early retirement and will sell my beloved Z4 and use the Cali as a day driver.

Hope this helps.

 

[Shake n Bake]

Hope this helps.

Immensely helpful - thank you.

Congratulations on your impending retirement - sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun!!!

 

[Velma's Dad]

Just to add also, regarding seating. Not sure if you realise this but it's crucial as you said you must have five seats... apols if I'm stating the obvious.

The standard Cali Ocean/SE format is 4 seats (driver, front passenger and two-seat bench behind). To have a fifth seat requires an extra rail fitted and the fifth (single) seat then goes in as a new 'middle row'.

BUT: having the fifth seat fitted really compromises the use of the vehicle in camping mode. It can be removed but is heavy and not something I'd want to do every time I parked up for the night... although others may have a different view on that.

For that reason though, I would think very carefully before choosing an Ocean or SE for travels with five bodies, even kids.

That still leaves a couple of options: (a) buy a Beach, which will seat five comfortably, or (b) go for one of the conversions that has a three-seat bench - although each seat will then be narrow and probably only comfortable for smaller children, or with a double front passenger seat - although then you probably won't be able to rotate it or move between front and back of the van inside.

If it were me I'd deffo go for the Beach, probbaly with a kitchen pod as Jabberwocky said. But anyone on here have actual experience with touring/camping with five in an Ocean/SE? Or maybe it's possible to spec/mod an Ocean/SE with double front passenger seats? (sorry, there's bound to be a forum post on here somewhere for that!).