Leisure Batteries draining?

[Lightning]

12.4V is around 60%, which they recommend staying above for long life. Any lower will of course work fine but with progressively reducing cycle life. The more you keep the discharge above 60% AND / OR re-charge as soon as possible, the better life expectancy. Sulfation occurs when the cells discharge at ANY point below full charge, minor & reversible when above 12.4V, while below 12.4V then permanent sulfation occurs, getting progressively worse with lower voltage and longer time.

That's life for all lead acid cells...

edit - just found this interesting article on load testing... https://www.jefftk.com/p/load-testing-a-battery

and this youtube vid -

Alisons problem will be proving the good condition of the batteries prior to the dealerships 'intervention' and the fact that batteries are a wear and tear item, so the original 80Ah capacity will have inevitably dropped during normal good use over the years...

edit 2 - thinking of the dealers logic(!), the aux heater may well operate at 7.7V, but that is the heaters specs voltage range minimum, nothing to do with the vans 12V system.

The low voltage cut out mentioned in the video looks like it might be a good investment.

 

[MartG]

The low voltage cut out mentioned in the video looks like it might be a good investment.

Yes, though the van does have low voltage cutoff for both heater and fridge...

 

[AlisonF]

Fortunately I was away camping the weekend after reporting the 12V issue the garage investigating (and draining the batteries). No hook up. Batteries were at 60-70% at the end of weekend. All fine. So I think I can demonstrate the poor performance is related to them draining the batteries (glad I noticed the flashing icon on the control panel and took photo’s as soon as it was delivered back).

 

[AlisonF]

Had further correspondence with the dealer.

They confirmed the batteries were replaced last week (were reluctant to provide documentation / receipt as they paid for them until I said I needed info on the exact batteries and date of replacement for a complete service history for when I come to sell the van)...

So the 50% reading I had y’day after 10 mins with auxiliary heater on level 4 was with the new batteries. I asked if it was possible that there was a fuse blown or something else which meant the auxiliary heater was only drawing from 1 leisure battery. I was advised “the system is working as it should” several times... when I mentioned the batteries being wired in parallel I initially got a “that’s not how it works” and when I continued and said, it was my understanding they are wired in parallel I got a “I know that, the system is working as it should...”...

My old batteries were sent to a local battery firm for load testing. They were put under the “BBQ test” and whilst showing some reduced capacity, were within spec and the degradation is likely due to age (3.5 years old).

He is of the opinion the control panel is not showing the correct % of the batteries. However, I mentioned it worked fine up until it was in for the 12V socket investigation when it was delivered back with a flashing control panel indicating the batteries had been drained.

The service manager is awaiting feedback from VW on the email (posted earlier).

Thank you to the forum for all the advice, information and support so far. I can’t tell you how much you have helped me keep pushing for answers. Please keep adding any thoughts and advice as it seems the dealer is as equally perplexed as I am...

To be continued...

 

[Lightning]

Had further correspondence with the dealer.

They confirmed the batteries were replaced last week (were reluctant to provide documentation / receipt as they paid for them until I said I needed info on the exact batteries and date of replacement for a complete service history for when I come to sell the van)...

So the 50% reading I had y’day after 10 mins with auxiliary heater on level 4 was with the new batteries. I asked if it was possible that there was a fuse blown or something else which meant the auxiliary heater was only drawing from 1 leisure battery. I was advised “the system is working as it should” several times... when I mentioned the batteries being wired in parallel I initially got a “that’s not how it works” and when I continued and said, it was my understanding they are wired in parallel I got a “I know that, the system is working as it should...”...

My old batteries were sent to a local battery firm for load testing. They were put under the “BBQ test” and whilst showing some reduced capacity, were within spec and the degradation is likely due to age (3.5 years old).

He is of the opinion the control panel is not showing the correct % of the batteries. However, I mentioned it worked fine up until it was in for the 12V socket investigation when it was delivered back with a flashing control panel indicating the batteries had been drained.

The service manager is awaiting feedback from VW on the email (posted earlier).

Thank you to the forum for all the advice, information and support so far. I can’t tell you how much you have helped me keep pushing for answers. Please keep adding any thoughts and advice as it seems the dealer is as equally perplexed as I am...

To be continued...

This doesn’t add up.
If your batteries were within spec, and they had degradation commensurate with their age then why did they agree to replace them at their own expense? Very charitable of them. I don’t believe it.
If he doesn’t know how the percentage is calculated, how can he be so sure the system is performing as it should? Dont trust them would be my approach.

 

[WelshGas]

This doesn’t add up.
If your batteries were within spec, and they had degradation commensurate with their age then why did they agree to replace them at their own expense? Very charitable of them. I don’t believe it.
If he doesn’t know how the percentage is calculated, how can he be so sure the system is performing as it should? Dont trust them would be my approach.

Personally I would check the Rear Cube fuse on the +tve lead.

 

[AlisonF]

Personally I would check the Rear Cube fuse on the +tve lead.

I specifically asked about the fuses... that’s when I got a rather terse “everything’s working as it should”...

 

[AlisonF]

This doesn’t add up.
If your batteries were within spec, and they had degradation commensurate with their age then why did they agree to replace them at their own expense? Very charitable of them. I don’t believe it.
If he doesn’t know how the percentage is calculated, how can he be so sure the system is performing as it should? Dont trust them would be my approach.

Apparently he used to work at the battery place my ‘old’ batteries were sent to for testing, so ‘knows’ all about batteries...

 

[Lightning]

Apparently he used to work at the battery place my ‘old’ batteries were sent to for testing, so ‘knows’ all about batteries...

Apparently he used to work at the battery place my ‘old’ batteries were sent to for testing, so ‘knows’ all about batteries...

I think the cube fuse is straightforward to check yourself with a multimeter, it’s just a continuity check to see if it’s blown. I would also try and look visibly at the battery in the boot and see if there are any date stickers on it indicating it’s age.
Another approach or last resort, may be to wait and see how this turns out and then to ask VW central customer services for an inspection by an independent dealer, if it’s still not resolved. I think they are not keen to agree to this, but I have seen this approach followed by somebody with a different problem with poor workmanship and warranty cover on this forum.

 

[MartG]

I wouldn't worry too much about the % reading, Alison, keep an eye on the voltage...

And bear in mind that the voltage will drop when under load then recover slightly when off load. You should see about 14.3V when engine is running (G) symbol, 12.8V when engine off / fully charged.
Then the voltage will steadily drop when loads are applied but should take at least 2-3 days to drop to 12.5V (about 50%), the cold weather will quicken this too, with both fridge and heater on. This check should show up whether the system is on 1 battery or worse, duff batteries.

If you would like me to have a prod! I can get to you with my meter...

 

[AlisonF]

I think the cube fuse is straightforward to check yourself with a multimeter, it’s just a continuity check to see if it’s blown. I would also try and look visibly at the battery in the boot and see if there are any date stickers on it indicating it’s age.
Another approach or last resort, may be to wait and see how this turns out and then to ask VW central customer services for an inspection by an independent dealer, if it’s still not resolved. I think they are not keen to agree to this, but I have seen this approach followed by somebody with a different problem with poor workmanship and warranty cover on this forum.

I may be heading to VW customer services soon. Remembering this all started out from the 17 days for a 6 hour job fitting the towbar and electrics over a year ago... which took 5 months to get quotes for and then I was overcharged by several hundred pounds... I had to report to VW Customer Services at the time...
From that work the 12V sockets were disconnected, hence the can going back in this October...
And from that the battery draining issue which we are now struggling to resolve...
I am very close to selling and buying something completely different, NOT from Clark Commercials !!!

 

[AlisonF]

I wouldn't worry too much about the % reading, Alison, keep an eye on the voltage...

And bear in mind that the voltage will drop when under load then recover slightly when off load. You should see about 14.3V when engine is running (G) symbol, 12.8V when engine off / fully charged.
Then the voltage will steadily drop when loads are applied but should take at least 2-3 days to drop to 12.5V (about 50%), the cold weather will quicken this too, with both fridge and heater on. This check should show up whether the system is on 1 battery or worse, duff batteries.

If you would like me to have a prod! I can get to you with my meter...

If you have plans to be near Aberdeen sometime send me a PM - another opinion would be great. Thanks for the offer.
In the meantime, I’ve put the fridge on full (the same as I had when camping in September) and will monitor the battery %, Volts and Ampage draw... the service guy poo poo’d this idea, but my scientific brain wants to have a go anyway...

 

[MartG]

In the meantime, I’ve put the fridge on full (the same as I had when camping in September) and will monitor the battery %, Volts and Ampage draw... the service guy poo poo’d this idea, but my scientific brain wants to have a go anyway...

It's certainly not a scientific test but should give a ball park idea of their condition.

 

[Loz]

I wouldn't worry too much about the % reading, Alison, keep an eye on the voltage...

And bear in mind that the voltage will drop when under load then recover slightly when off load. You should see about 14.3V when engine is running (G) symbol, 12.8V when engine off / fully charged.

@AlisonF can I just a caveat to this sound advise, once the starter battery reaches 80% the alternator can go to idle and stop charging (blue motion nonsense to save fuel) so occasionally you may see the voltage drop back down from 14v and also current may flow and show negative on the control panel when the engine is running.
just so you are aware...

 

[MartG]

Hi @AlisonF , hope you had a good Christmas & New Year?
How are the batteries holding up? Have you had any more dealings with Clark's!

 

[AlisonF]

Hi @AlisonF , hope you had a good Christmas & New Year?
How are the batteries holding up? Have you had any more dealings with Clark's!

Hi, Happy New Year! Thanks for following up.
After I fully charged them they seem to be doing ok.
I haven’t heard anything more from Dyce so will be dropping an email on Monday and asking for documentation for the battery replacements, asking about the T6 cambelt recall and letting them know I have a leaking near side sliding window... i guess they won’t be too pleased to hear from me...

 

[AlisonF]

I feel I need to post an apology to the service manager at VW Clark Commercials Dyce (Aberdeen). He is objecting to me posting his email to me on this forum. I can only apologise.

 

[AlisonF]

I was emailing the service department to book the van in for a near side window leak under warranty. Unfortunately, they tried to pick up the van y’day (14th, Tues) when I had been advised they had no slots before tomorrow (16th, Thurs) but I need a Tuesday, so emails show they would try again for next week.
I forwarded emails from service department receptionist to service department manager (which were all friendly and polite, as have been all my correspondence by phone and email). The response was no-one in the service department is allowed to email me as a result of my posting an earlier email on the internet (I am assuming this forum).
I am very sorry I have caused offence. I have been trying to use this forum to get help and support to resolve technical issues. Whilst my disappointment in the dealership and issues with the van I am happy to make public, but it was not my intention to offend individuals. If I have done so in my frustration then I can only apologise.
A similarly worded email will be sent to the manager of local dealership in next day or two.

 

[2into1]

Well I could tell you what I think about the way you've been treated, but it may not help your cause with the delicate souls at Aberdeen. Keep pushing for proper service and value from the 5 year warranty they were happy to supply and charge for. Then find a good independent dealer to look after you in rhe way you, and your £ deserve.
If Aberdeen want to salvage their reputation here, they just need to step up and I know you'll report their great service here.

 

[kurienp]

I need to post an apology to the service manager at VW Clark Commercials Dyce (Aberdeen). He is objecting to me posting his email to me on this forum. I can only apologise.

I think that is very unprofessional of the service manager at VW Clark Commercials. Rather than stepping up and solving your issues, he is asking you to post an apology on here? What a D**k!

That shows their standards of operation. Seems a case of Ego before service. Not impressed with that at all.

This forum is like a team that help each other with information and so far that is what this thread has been - as a group everyone contributing their knowledge to solve an issue. They have to realize that in this connected world, they will not have any place to hide for inferior service. They have to step up their game.

 

[AlisonF]

I think that is very unprofessional of the service manager at VW Clark Commercials. Rather than stepping up and solving your issues, he is asking you to post an apology on here? What a D**k!

That shows their standards of operation. Seems a case of Ego before service. Not impressed with that at all.

This forum is like a team that help each other with information and so far that is what this thread has been - as a group everyone contributing their knowledge to solve an issue. They have to realize that in this connected world, they will not have any place to hide for inferior service. They have to step up their game.

It wasn’t requested that I apologise. I felt the need to as clearly I have offended someone. I’ve edited the post.

 

[kurienp]

It wasn’t requested that I apologise. I felt the need to as clearly I have offended someone. I’ve edited the post.

Oh ok. Apologies for my post as well then. Understood. Good on them then.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[AlisonF]

I have a letter from the dealer stating that all 12V batteries have been replaced with VW batteries. The old batteries were tested and no faults found. New batteries 000915105CD.

 

[Garry Robertson]

I think that is very unprofessional of the service manager at VW Clark Commercials. Rather than stepping up and solving your issues, he is asking you to post an apology on here? What a D**k!

That shows their standards of operation. Seems a case of Ego before service. Not impressed with that at all.

This forum is like a team that help each other with information and so far that is what this thread has been - as a group everyone contributing their knowledge to solve an issue. They have to realize that in this connected world, they will not have any place to hide for inferior service. They have to step up their game.

 

[Joker 1299]

Hi Gary, welcome to the forum. Are you the service manager from @AlisonF ’s local dealership?