ID. BUZZ is too heavy for a California version.

[Roger Boeken]

According to several posts the ID. BUZZ will not be available (soon) as a California, because the total weight would make it illegal to drive it with a B category driving licence. So, it seems that it's then end for this project for now...

Volkswagen delays ID.Buzz California electric camper due to added weight

If you were waiting for the full-fledged electric camper version of the Volkswagen ID.Buzz, you will have to wait a...

electrek.co

Europe has new rules in the make , possibly 4100 kg limit for driver licence B category because electrical vans are much heavier than diesel versions. Maybe manufacturers are waiting legalisation and therefor hesitate to make a decision on which way to go.

 

[trev0rk]

Fiat E-Scudo Sets New Record For Longest Distance Driven By A Van On A Charge

The previous record was set in 2022 by a GM BrightDrop Zevo 600 van which drove 258 miles (415 km) between New York City and Washington, D.C.

insideevs.com

Came across this today.
Similar size van.
311 miles in 13 hours.

 

[aileron346]

The transition to electric will be interesting. I very much agree with the comment above about size in general. Many vehicles have to be big or they cannot fulfil their purpose. However, all of us will have neighbours using cars predominantly as a runabout that are designed like tanks. That fashion could change very fast with positive implications for overall energy use. Alongside the EV transition, we need to go smaller and lighter wherever that’s possible.

Anyone who camps will have seen the gross increase in size of cars, caravans and motorhomes (and actually, tents too) over the past 40 years.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Agree. We have an EV but I would take the Cali on a really long trip unless I had luxury of time. An EV with great range helps a lot though as it gives way more freedom. Our WLTP is 340 miles (in reality can expect 300 miles of real world driving), which is enough that we have never had range anxiety with it. We can get from Winchester to Manchester in one charge in the summer. We wouldn’t want less than that as typically only charge to 80% and worse performance in the winter, so in the worst conditions it still has superb range.

In the short to medium term for a Buzz Cali ideally there would need to be some pitches would need EV charging capability. Given the dire situation of come hookups currently and the investment required to do this I think it’s a very long way off. And the cost they’d charge you to use one of those pitches would be astronomical and make diesel the cheaper option probably. Without this you’d have to spend hours charging each day you travel so you’re not exactly going to get far…

Indeed. My calculations concluded that unless you can charge for under 40p per kWh (very difficult to achieve this away from home unless on the very slowest supermarket chargers), you're actually better off financially putting diesel in at under £1.50 per litre.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

If your only concern is a once a year long road trip. The obvious solution is to hire a vehicle for that trip.
The majority of journeys in cars is sub 5miles

This is true. Though to be honest an EV with a good range covers even summer holidays for us. It’s just not a big deal at all. Most of the people I know who complain about EVs haven’t even had one. They just speak about their fears of owning one with no real world experience. From real world experience I’d be amazed if they don’t work for most people, even for 100 mile each way commutes each day, but only provided they can charge at home.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Indeed. My calculations concluded that unless you can charge for under 40p per kWh (very difficult to achieve this away from home unless on the very slowest supermarket chargers), you're actually better off financially putting diesel in at under £1.50 per litre.

Yes but it’s very rare to charge away from home if you have a home charger. At home you can pay 7.5p/kWh and so it costs 2p per mile, instead of the 20p per mile my Cali costs. For 12.5k mile per year it saves £2250 on fuel alone over using the Cali for those journeys. Over the last 2 years I’ve driven 20,000 electric miles per year. I’ve charged away from home only 4 times, on each occasion paying 25-35p/kWh for a top up only. Have you owned and properly lived with an electric car?

 

[Pollewop]

Anyone who camps will have seen the gross increase in size of cars, caravans and motorhomes (and actually, tents too) over the past 40 years.

Exactly!!! One of the reasons why I like the California so much. Although the California grew as well it still has a decent size. Especially if you compare it to the many "Big Whites" you can see cruising around

 

[soulstyledevon]

Where did you get that statistic from? Whilst it maybe true, it does sound like another of those London centric stats. My problem with any of these EV discussions is that they tend to gloss over what goes on elsewhere.

Key walking and cycling statistics for the UK

A collection of statistics published by government sources relating to walking and cycling in the UK.

www.sustrans.org.uk

It’s a couple of years old, but can’t be that far out.

In another piece I’ve seen, the average UK car journey is 8.4 miles as of 2022…

 

[Stow]

Yes, well, as you mention this may be a feasible solution for "trips around town", but for people that use their car for summer holidays this is not an option at all. Let alone for campervans. A range of 600 km, without the need to charge in between, would be a "hard" criterium for me.
This however would need new battery technology to make batteries lighter, charge faster and double their specific capacity. Something which is currently being researched in many universities and companies, but is not there jet... Until then it will be the "good old Diesel"...At least for campervans...

Careful, my petrol T6 is up to the job

 

[Borris]

Key walking and cycling statistics for the UK

A collection of statistics published by government sources relating to walking and cycling in the UK.

www.sustrans.org.uk

It’s a couple of years old, but can’t be that far out.

In another piece I’ve seen, the average UK car journey is 8.4 miles as of 2022…

Thanks. I have breifly read the blurb and picked this out:

"About the National Travel Survey data and reports
National Travel Survey data collection consists of a face-to-face interview and a 7 day self-completed written travel diary, allowing travel patterns to be linked with individual characteristics. The survey covers travel by people in all age groups, including children. Approximately 16,000 individuals in 7,000 households in England, participate in the survey each year."

So if I have this right, with England's population currently being circa 57 million,16,000 individuals represents less than 0.03 percent of the population. Less than 3 in ten thousand! Again 7000 households is roughly 0.03% of the 23.4 million households in England (2021 census). The information may have said, but I am unclear how those households are chosen or did they volunteer? Were the face to face interviews etc carried out in all parts of England, urban, country and remote? Are these results representative of the entire population? Who knows.

Sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to be a pedant but merely questioning this survey's results which to me, seem rather pointless. To assume that the other 99.97% of the population act in a similar manner is sheer guess work. It reminds me of the way the Beeching Report was compiled.

What's that saying? ............ "Lies, damn lies and statistics".

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Could always go for a Tonke

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Thanks. I have breifly read the blurb and picked this out:

"About the National Travel Survey data and reports
National Travel Survey data collection consists of a face-to-face interview and a 7 day self-completed written travel diary, allowing travel patterns to be linked with individual characteristics. The survey covers travel by people in all age groups, including children. Approximately 16,000 individuals in 7,000 households in England, participate in the survey each year."

So if I have this right, with England's population currently being circa 57 million,16,000 individuals represents less than 0.03 percent of the population. Less than 3 in ten thousand! Again 7000 households is roughly 0.03% of the 23.4 million households in England (2021 census). The information may have said, but I am unclear how those households are chosen or did they volunteer? Were the face to face interviews etc carried out in all parts of England, urban, country and remote? Are these results representative of the entire population? Who knows.

Sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to be a pedant but merely questioning this survey's results which to me, seem rather pointless. To assume that the other 99.97% of the population act in a similar manner is sheer guess work. It reminds me of the way the Beeching Report was compiled.

What's that saying? ............ "Lies, damn lies and statistics".

Standard stats. Completely normal and is how it’s done. It’ll never claim to be 100% accurate, but it will claim to be roughly representative.

 

[Borris]

Standard stats. Completely normal and is how it’s done. It’ll never claim to be 100% accurate, but it will claim to be roughly representative.

Oh, I'm sure they are and I have no doubt the process is the usual way of doing things but that's my point. It wouldn't matter if these sort of surveys didn't sometimes affect future policy decisions. "Roughly" allows for all sorts of conclusions.

 

[wildslammer22]

I think that in the (near) future we will see that many of the ambitious energy transition initiatives, promoting electrification and getting rid of fossil fuels, will have to be downgraded, postponed or even be cancelled. The current technology is just not developed enough.

Regarding the electrification of vehicles there are many limitations popping up:

• Loading capacity of cars is limited due to electric grid limitations. Not easy to change.
• Limited battery capacity with the current technology, leading to a limited driving range.
• For long range travelling: long loading time, leading to queues at recharging stations. Infrastructure is lagging behind severely.

Also hydrogen as a fuel is still far away (imho) and not a feasible option:

• Terribly energy inefficient to make.
• There is not enough energy available to make the required amount of hydrogen.

So it looks like that fossil fuels will be around longer than anticipated by some…

We aren’t too far away from EV penetration making Smart Grids feasible. This creates a virtuous circle as the issue with most renewables is energy storage so we can access electricity when it’s needed and not limited to when it’s produces ie when the sun shines or wind blows.

Whether there is the investment appetite or regulatory competence to make it a reality (in the UK at least) is an entirely different matter!

 

[soulstyledevon]

Oh, I'm sure they are and I have no doubt the process is the usual way of doing things but that's my point. It wouldn't matter if these sort of surveys didn't sometimes affect future policy decisions. "Roughly" allows for all sorts of conclusions.

If you note your next 7 days of driving, and I note mine.
Would we fall within the report spectrum…?

For personal use, I would. Business, no chance. My average work day is between 100-150 miles per day, however I can hit 300 miles plus on a bad day.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Yes but it’s very rare to charge away from home if you have a home charger. At home you can pay 7.5p/kWh and so it costs 2p per mile, instead of the 20p per mile my Cali costs. For 12.5k mile per year it saves £2250 on fuel alone over using the Cali for those journeys. Over the last 2 years I’ve driven 20,000 electric miles per year. I’ve charged away from home only 4 times, on each occasion paying 25-35p/kWh for a top up only. Have you owned and properly lived with an electric car?

It doesn’t help that VAT on home charging is 5%, and away from home it’s 20%. InstaVolt used to charge 5%, but got stomped on by HMRC.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

We aren’t too far away from EV penetration making Smart Grids feasible. This creates a virtuous circle as the issue with most renewables is energy storage so we can access electricity when it’s needed and not limited to when it’s produces ie when the sun shines or wind blows.

Whether there is the investment appetite or regulatory competence to make it a reality (in the UK at least) is an entirely different matter!

Solar panels + storage battery at home; 2 way battery on the car.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Oh, I'm sure they are and I have no doubt the process is the usual way of doing things but that's my point. It wouldn't matter if these sort of surveys didn't sometimes affect future policy decisions. "Roughly" allows for all sorts of conclusions.

What would your recommendation be then?

 

[Devaprem]

VW apparently plan to cut EV vehicle production due to 'customer resistance' (https://thedriven.io/2023/07/06/cus...roduction-as-it-fails-to-keep-up-with-market/). I don't know how this will affect ID.Buzz production and sales but time will tell.

I spoke to a couple of sales people at my local dealer ship who said that VW's plans keep changing and that, until they see a new vehicle on the forecourt, they prefer to wait and see rather promise something that VW then change their mind over. They also said that ID.Buzz in its current form has been ruled out as a campervan as it would have problems due the high torque EVs produce. Grass pitches and off some road situations would lead to wheel spin. They added that the T7 multivan would have loading problems as it is built on a passenger vehicle chassis and not a commercial one.

 

[wildslammer22]

It doesn’t help that VAT on home charging is 5%, and away from home it’s 20%. InstaVolt used to charge 5%, but got stomped on by HMRC.

And therein lies the rub, HMG took £25.1bn in tax revenue in 2022/3 which is c.3% of the entire tax tax for the UK. If EV’s continue to proliferate that tax revenue loss will need to come from somewhere.


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[Borris]

If you note your next 7 days of driving, and I note mine.
Would we fall within the report spectrum…?

For personal use, I would. Business, no chance. My average work day is between 100-150 miles per day, however I can hit 300 miles plus on a bad day.

No, not in our case.

Being retired, all of our outings are for personal use. I/we don't go out every day, just most days. Five miles wouldn't get me/us to the nearest town. That's not to say that we don't have some local facilities but they are fairly limited. Living in the country almost always involves using a car.

The bus service we do have is so restricted that it isn't worth considering. We do have a railway station about a mile away which we use occasionally but that only serves two points on the compass neither of which we have any cause to visit on a regular basis.

Our circumstances aren't unusual and we don't live in what could be described as a remote location. Like many millions we just don't live in the town.

The only reason I mention all of this is to illustrate what goes on outside of the urban areas......urban areas for which these national statistics are so often directed.

 

[wildslammer22]

If you note your next 7 days of driving, and I note mine.
Would we fall within the report spectrum…?

For personal use, I would. Business, no chance. My average work day is between 100-150 miles per day, however I can hit 300 miles plus on a bad day.

Apparently the average UK driver covers 6,800 miles a year, how that breaks down by journey will obviously vary enormously from driver to driver with many factors having an impact.

My own personal perspective from a clean air/environmental approach is not nearly enough is being done to convert many of those 1-2 mile car journeys onto shared transport or better still active transport. 20% of all car journeys are less than a mile and 38% less than 2 miles.

The explosion in car ownership has made us lazy. I have two adult children who are both considered ‘elite’ athletes, yet they will not walk anywhere. The irony of driving half a mile to the gym is lost on them! Yet woe betide any local authority who dares to try and give over any road space to cycle or bus lanes or horror pedestrianise shopping areas (which also nearly always increases business for local shops and services). If everyone made a conscious effort to walk/cycle more it would surely have a significant impact on air quality and in a much more egalitarian way that pushing EV ownership which is a pipe dream for large swathes of the population.


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[Borris]

What would your recommendation be then?

That's not for me to determine.

However, with all the data being collected on us and our habits, there must be a more meaningful way of gathering this information.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Apparently the average UK driver covers 6,800 miles a year, how that breaks down by journey will obviously vary enormously from driver to driver with many factors having an impact.

My own personal perspective from a clean air/environmental approach is not nearly enough is being done to convert many of those 1-2 mile car journeys onto shared transport or better still active transport. 20% of all car journeys are less than a mile and 38% less than 2 miles.

The explosion in car ownership has made us lazy. I have two adult children who are both considered ‘elite’ athletes, yet they will not walk anywhere. The irony of driving half a mile to the gym is lost on them! Yet woe betide any local authority who dares to try and give over any road space to cycle or bus lanes or horror pedestrianise shopping areas (which also nearly always increases business for local shops and services). If everyone made a conscious effort to walk/cycle more it would surely have a significant impact on air quality and in a much more egalitarian way that pushing EV ownership which is a pipe dream for large swathes of the population.


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Absolutely spot on.
It’s such a frustration for us, as a family that do try and walk/cycle as much as possible.
The real stumbling block is lack of infrastructure. It’s desperately needed, but you can’t change NIMBY short sighted British attitudes.
I posted on a local forum about incorporating a one system through the centre of our small town which is due to grow by 8000 additional houses within the next 10 years. It was met with real venom.
So we will just bury our heads in the sand and have an even worse problem in 10 years time…

I’m very envious of the Dutch and what they have.

 

[wildslammer22]

Absolutely spot on.
It’s such a frustration for us, as a family that do try and walk/cycle as much as possible.
The real stumbling block is lack of infrastructure. It’s desperately needed, but you can’t change NIMBY short sighted British attitudes.
I posted on a local forum about incorporating a one system through the centre of our small town which is due to grow by 8000 additional houses within the next 10 years. It was met with real venom.
So we will just bury our heads in the sand and have an even worse problem in 10 years time…

I’m very envious of the Dutch and what they have.

Absolutely.

It can be done if there is a will which is sadly lacking here.

Amsterdam transformed their city in a few short years in the 80’s. The city was drowning in traffic and children were getting killed on the roads in excessive numbers. The Netherlands still struggle with congestion but their city planners are allowed to take radical measures to address it. As a regular visitor to Amsterdam on business I always marvel at young mums with two kids on the back of a bike and about a weeks shopping on the front!


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