Help -- EGR

[Southcoastcali]

Hello. My 6 weeks out of Warranty van came up with the dreaded orange light last week although is running fine. Having spoken to the van centre last week and being reassured that if it was just orange and still running fine then no urgency I dropped it into Breeze Southampton this morning who have just called me to say that the EGR needs replacing, will cost just over £1k.
They have offered me 52% of the cost which is great and all but right now I am more than a little unhappy that a 3 year old van with 20k on the clock can be subject to such a "common fault" ( (their words) that they had the words EGR Fault ? ringed on the service sheet when I dropped it off this morning
Am beyond angry. What do I do next? Other than rant.

 

[Meoncoast]

feel the issue is with VW rather than your local van centre I would give them a ring/moan see what they can offer

 

[KernowLad]

So EGR valves going and roof paint bubbling seem to be issues happening to most Californias.

Recall time IMO.

 

[Southcoastcali]

Thanks both.... Yes, van centre in Southampton have always been brilliant. Just been on to VW who deny its a common fault. Am now waiting for them to call me back. However of course this means another weekend away cancelled due to the van being sat in Southampton rather than keeping me warm and dry in a field somewhere beautiful!
Kernowlad- reminds me- we checked the paint on roof just before it went out of warranty. What's the betting that's the next issue we face


Hope this isn't something I can expect to fail every 2-3 years. That may be a little hard to accept as reasonable...

 

[KernowLad]

It does sound rather exasperating! What's the actual cost of a replacement? Apparently it's a days work on a 180!!

If we can all expect to be hit by (this is a guess) a £2k++ failure a year or so after our warranty is up, I'm going to have to put on my complaining shoes and dance the moaning tango.
Same with the roof bubble - bet that costs a fortune to sort?!

When getting the handover, alarm bells did ring when I was given that key fob thing that tells you to drive a long way if your DPF light comes on - and if it fails, it's YOUR fault. I'm sorry but when did all this "don't just do short journeys" nonsense come along? It's all about emissions; I suspect repairing broken EGR valves and DPFs is far worse for the environment than a tiny bit more CO2.

Rant over. For now...

 

[Southcoastcali]

Well...am waiting for a call back from VW but don't expect much. Best start saving for 2 years time when this goes again I guess

Someone better remind me fast why I bought this van!

 

[Surforswim]

Hi southcoastcali, just had my 2010 180DSG suffer a second EGR valve failure 3 weeks out of warranty. Been called today to say its been fixed will pick up tomorrow. When i spoke to VW commercial customer services to enquire about their contribution i was also told they would contribute 52% of the cost when i asked them to expand they said repair estimate from the dealership was £489 so my contribution would be around £230. That estimate you had looks a bit steep, there must be a manafactures agreed time and cost for this part replacement so i can't see VW just giving the dealer 52% of whatever they like to charge. They say its 6 hrs work to replace on a 180.

 

[Southcoastcali]

Hiya surforswim....I've been told my cost would be £530! And total cost over £1k ( inclusive of VAT)
Does seem weird. £230 I could live with ( just!) £530 seems outrageous.

Ps. surf. Always.

 

[Southcoastcali]

VW just called back- nice chap- who confirmed cost at £920 exc VAT
And agreed I am unlucky with my van
Given surforswims cost to replace I have queried why this one so expensive.
Suspect this will drag on for some days so am definitely missing my weekend camping
Will keep you posted. And if anyone wants an EGR fault club then I'm in.

 

[Andy]

So EGR valves going and roof paint bubbling seem to be issues happening to most Californias.

Recall time IMO.

Recalls are only done on safety related items, which neither of these are. That said I do agree with you. There is a list of over a hundred calis, of all ages, with the blistered paint above windscreen on the german forum.

 

[KernowLad]

So EGR valves going and roof paint bubbling seem to be issues happening to most Californias.

Recall time IMO.

Recalls are only done on safety related items, which neither of these are. That said I do agree with you. There is a list of over a hundred calis, of all ages, with the blistered paint above windscreen on the german forum.

You could argue that the frustration of such an obvious pair of flaws could cause heart problems

And being stranded with a failed EGR valve somewhere remote wouldn't be the all that safe...

 

[Southcoastcali]

Is that right about recalls only for safety related items? As VW have been defending the EGR fault not being common due to VoSA not issuing a recall on it therefore it cannot be "common"

 

[Nottledim]

Does the180 engine only occur in Calis or would there be evidence of this failure in other variants like Transporters Caravelles etc. Might be worth asking an innocent question or two of VW?

 

[Southcoastcali]

Good idea...will do. Thank your- all advice very much appreciated.

I don't want to spend my time trying to sort this though. I just want my van to work properly so I can go camping and surfing and walking and exploring without having to fret about paying money hand over fist to keep it on the road :cry:

 

[Stu]

Is that right about recalls only for safety related items? As VW have been defending the EGR fault not being common due to VoSA not issuing a recall on it therefore it cannot be "common"

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservic ... ecalls.htm

About UK Automotive Recall System

Recalls to address safety defects in automotive products are launched and monitored under the terms of Codes of Practice formulated from discussions between the Department for Transport and the Trade Associations representing the Motor Manufacturing industry. The General Product Safety Regulations 2005 provide the legal support.

These Codes set out the guidelines and procedures for the recall of vehicles and components that have safety related defects due to a feature of design or construction, and which are liable to cause significant risk of injury to the driver, occupants of the vehicle or other road users.

The first Code was introduced in 1979. There are now three Codes (a link to them is on the website) which cover the following:

• Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects which includes components.

• Code of Practice on action concerning the recall of Tyres, Wheels and Associated parts in the aftermarket.

• Code of Practice for Pedal Cycle Recalls

It is the responsibility of the producer to inform VOSA when substantial evidence of a safety defect that requires remedial action has been confirmed. Additionally, evidence may be presented to the manufacturer by VOSA as a result of investigations into collisions and safety defects which have been brought to their attention from other sources.

 

[Stu]

VW just called back- nice chap- who confirmed cost at £920 exc VAT
And agreed I am unlucky with my van
Given surforswims cost to replace I have queried why this one so expensive.
Suspect this will drag on for some days so am definitely missing my weekend camping
Will keep you posted. And if anyone wants an EGR fault club then I'm in.

I think it's time to look more closely at the SogA. Fit for purpose, free from defect .....

 

[Stu]

Some more thought on this overnight.

There is an expectation that something such as a car/van will have a reasonable life, free from defects. So general wear and tear aside (brakes, clutch etc) the rest of the van is fair game.

So in my opinion, by virtue of both the number of failures and the spread across relatively new vehicles, the EGR is an inherently defective part, most likely due to design or manufacture. So at this point, regardless of agreed warranty, you have the support of the Sale of Goods Act.

Perhaps you can draw something from this -

It is important to remember that a guarantee does not replace or limit a customer's rights. Customers are entitled to raise a problem with you regarding a product for up to six years from the date of purchase (five years from the discovery of a problem in Scotland) regardless of the terms of any guarantee. Customers are entitled to rely on the remedies available to them under law (outlined in this guide) rather than their rights under a guarantee, if they wish.

This means that if a customer complains to you about an item that is not fit for purpose , does not match the description , or is not of satisfactory quality , you must deal with their complaint - you cannot force them to use their guarantee.

http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

In reality you'll have to pay up and then pursue them in the small claims court.

 

[beardie]

Some more thought on this overnight.

There is an expectation that something such as a car/van will have a reasonable life, free from defects. So general wear and tear aside (brakes, clutch etc) the rest of the van is fair game.

So in my opinion, by virtue of both the number of failures and the spread across relatively new vehicles, the EGR is an inherently defective part, most likely due to design or manufacture. So at this point, regardless of agreed warranty, you have the support of the Sale of Goods Act.

Perhaps you can draw something from this -

It is important to remember that a guarantee does not replace or limit a customer's rights. Customers are entitled to raise a problem with you regarding a product for up to six years from the date of purchase (five years from the discovery of a problem in Scotland) regardless of the terms of any guarantee. Customers are entitled to rely on the remedies available to them under law (outlined in this guide) rather than their rights under a guarantee, if they wish.

This means that if a customer complains to you about an item that is not fit for purpose , does not match the description , or is not of satisfactory quality , you must deal with their complaint - you cannot force them to use their guarantee.

http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

In reality you'll have to pay up and then pursue them in the small claims court.

So how do you prove that the failure of that component indicates its inherently defective when it operated for three years. Assuming a failure just out of warranty. You would also need reliable stats across many thousand vans

 

[KernowLad]

Some more thought on this overnight.

There is an expectation that something such as a car/van will have a reasonable life, free from defects. So general wear and tear aside (brakes, clutch etc) the rest of the van is fair game.

So in my opinion, by virtue of both the number of failures and the spread across relatively new vehicles, the EGR is an inherently defective part, most likely due to design or manufacture. So at this point, regardless of agreed warranty, you have the support of the Sale of Goods Act.

Perhaps you can draw something from this -

It is important to remember that a guarantee does not replace or limit a customer's rights. Customers are entitled to raise a problem with you regarding a product for up to six years from the date of purchase (five years from the discovery of a problem in Scotland) regardless of the terms of any guarantee. Customers are entitled to rely on the remedies available to them under law (outlined in this guide) rather than their rights under a guarantee, if they wish.

This means that if a customer complains to you about an item that is not fit for purpose , does not match the description , or is not of satisfactory quality , you must deal with their complaint - you cannot force them to use their guarantee.

http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

In reality you'll have to pay up and then pursue them in the small claims court.

So how do you prove that the failure of that component indicates its inherently defective when it operated for three years. Assuming a failure just out of warranty. You would also need reliable stats across many thousand vans

Looking from the opposite direction, VW will do all they can to avoid a recall but the SoGA angle is a powerful one. I'll ask on other forums but EGR valve failure does seem common across all types of 180 vans. Even a glance here shows its common.

I will speak to my dealer when we get the roof sorted and see what their angle is on both the roof and the EGR issue.

 

[Nottledim]

That adds to my view that this is a VW van issue and is not specific to California's unless relatively low mileage is a factor.
Not sure if there are similar forum for the VW converters like Bilbo (am I allowed to mention them?) and do they have similar issues?

Andrew

 

[Mr Soft]

Had the EGR light come on the the wifes 6yr old Audi, turned out to be the nylon segment gear in the throttle valve had worn. 50p part that cannot be bought seperately, total valve cost abot £300!! Don't know if these are similar to the VW valves!

Bob


Soft & re-arranged!

 

[Southcoastcali]

Hi all. Really appreciating all the guidance...

Just had a call from VW who have gone through the cost detail given the diffence between my quote and surforswims. Turns out its not just the EGR ( part cost about £180ish) but something else too I didn't quite catch ( diesel blah blah am blonde girl) that costs £600 ish

So...my thoughts on this have changed somewhat. First am annoyed that breeze didn't actually tell me the full detail of what the issue is. Second that this is two things that are wrong not one. Given the van has already been in 10 times under warranty for various issues ( airbag, fridge,control panel, roof etc etc etc) am now just of the impression that the van is a walking disaster and that the catalogue of issues we have had with it will just continue ad infinitum

Next steps are for me to get the detail on exactly what is wrong with it and then wait for VW to escalate.

 

[Southcoastcali]

That adds to my view that this is a VW van issue and is not specific to California's unless relatively low mileage is a factor.
Not sure if there are similar forum for the VW converters like Bilbo (am I allowed to mention them?) and do they have similar issues?

Andrew

Chap at VW said that the EGR is a VW issue across all vans. Well. Not that he admitted it was common of course but that there was similar conversations happening about transporters and caravelles



My main issue now is the continual backwards and forwards because things are not working rather than the specifics of this current problem. 12 separate issues in 3 years and 20k miles seems too many to me. We tend to do either very long (3hr+) journeys or relatively short hops. Maybe a VW van can't cope with that

 

[Surforswim]

Hi Southcoastcali, I have just picked mine up from the garage and as you indicated there are ERG valve replacements and EGR VALVE replacements hence the cost difference. I spoke to the technician who worked on both my failures and he confirmed for the first failure under warranty they could not split the valve out of the housing and so were forced to replace the whole unit it sits in, this time they just took the valve out as diagnostics was indicating it wasn't fully opening. They showed me the valve, its about the size of a tea cup. The valve was clean and the problem was clearly electronic either the motor malfunctioning or the open signal to the engine management programme faulty not a further inherent underlying problem like turbo seals etc so gives me some degree of comfort. If i was you i'd still want to understand why the workscope for yours was so large as your fault sounded so similar to mine, orange warning light on but no hint of problem with driving performance, what exactly was the diagnostics telling them, why did they go for a larger repair option. After a few stressful days, driving back down the coast today in the cali with the gorse in full bloom backed by a beautiful blue sea and knowing the surf is up this weekend all suddenly seems right in the world. wishing you best of luck with yours for the future. Keith.

 

[BerndRos]

On both of my EGR failures that had to replace the whole largish unit.......mine is a march 10 reg....

Both under warranty.......