Fair price on a Westfalia T4 1996?

[linusmaxe]

Hi!

I’m looking to get a westfalia T4 1996. The car is supposedly in great condition with everything working and so on.. it has gone Roughly 305,000 km with what I believe is the smallest engine at 57kw ~ 85(?) bhp, manual gear box.
Since I’m a bit of a newbie to the cali’s I’m wondering what a fair price would be given the facts above.

It’s one of these :

1995 VW Westfalia T4 California Coach

An information site about Volkswagen Westfalia T4 Transporter camper vans.

www.westfaliat4.info

I’m interested in a ballpark number so that I know the seller is not asking to much.. it’s listed at £13,200/€14,500.

I’m thankful for any input!

Regards

Linus

 

[rod_vw]

If it's really the low output engine then you may be disappointed with the performance, I would have expected it to be a 102ps.

It may be worth asking the vendor for the VIN and going to a dealer (parts dept is best) and asking for a Car Data Print of that VIN, that should give you a full spec of the vehicle as produced.
The other way is to get the vendor to supply you with a scan or good photo of the data label from under the dash or in the service book. Decoding the PR codes in that will give the same details, You can decode PR codes here.

 

[AndyWT]

Looks good, has double glazing, mileage is reasonable for its age it’s less than my 2000 Cali.

Is it a genuine Cali, get sight of registration doc, check VIN on van to docs.
Check for rust, at that age it’s earthier good or drive it to the Junk yard unless your hobby is welding.
It’s slow yes but the 2.4D will keep going for ever if it’s been looked after.
Service history? Does it have any?.

Don’t be distracted by the camper, what is the condition of the van, brakes suspension, engine gearbox etc etc, it’s an ongoing repair job with and old T4.

Check if everything works in the camper, fridge especially, control panel, if the panel has all buttons it’s got an Eberspächer parking heater, at the age it’s got a suitcase sized one underneath, it’s unlikely to work and obsolete no parts, if your lucky it may have been replaced.

If all checks out it’s a fair price, but you need a fund for inevitable repairs.

 

[sidepod]

https://m.mobile.de/auto/search.html?s=Car&vc=Car&dam=0&fe!=EXPORT&ms=25200%3B33%3B%3B&mk=25200&md=33

Have a wander through here for price comparison.

 

[AndyWT]

https://m.mobile.de/auto/search.html?s=Car&vc=Car&dam=0&fe!=EXPORT&ms=25200%3B33%3B%3B&mk=25200&md=33

Have a wander through here for price comparison.

Some amazing prices, it’s a little more realistic on AutoScout24.
3 years ago I imported a clean 2000 Coast from Germany to Italy, € 22,900 including all costs, minor rust, needed a clutch and peeing oil from crank & cam both ends, both repairs by VW.

Any old vehical becomes a labour of love, especially if it’s your only car and daily runner, we do about 18,000 km/yr 99% is traveling, or were until Covid.
You need to be handy with the tools.
So far, brake disks, 2 wheel bearings, timing belts, brake master cylinder, vacuum pump, glow plugs, radiator, head light relay mod, EGR clean & blank, blocked cat, shock absorbers.
I carry an un-locked engine ECU for when the immobilizer fails, which it will, a spare ECU is cheaper than a tow to VW.

What’s next? Oh! leaking rear brake cylinder and the handbrake cable looks suspect, some electronic parts are becoming hard to find.

Point is the price is the price, how much are you willing or able to spend on repairs, those with short arms and deep pockets don’t need to apply

 

[linusmaxe]

Wow, Thanks a lot for the replies!
I will now have a list when checking the vehicle.

/L

 

[ThomasHJ]

Have recently sold our VW T4 2.4 D Westfalia which had driven 225 KM and was really in mint condition. The original factory made campervan looked and performed like brand new and we had invested quite a bit in it the last few years. Everything original, no rust and generally a like new vehicle. We listed it for 13.000 euro's and 8 people called me within 1 hour from putting her online. The first who came to look at her and testdrive, bought her for asking price. Which was more then we paid for it when we bought it ourselves quite a few years back. I'm quite sure we could have sold it for more, had we had the patience and willingness, but we were happy with the result. The new owner seems reaslly happy to. I do remember that when we bought ours a few years back, the difference in qualiyty of the vans we looked at was astounding. Most were rustbuckets that could barely drive. All were supposed to costs thousands. It was hard to find a good one, let alone one that was in really good shape.

 

[rod_vw]

Maybe my error on possible engine size, I had assumed that at 1996 it would be the direct injection version but the older AAB engine was still in production then as well.

Here are the engine options from Wikipedia which I believe are correct...

Model	Engine ID code	Engine configuration	Engine displacement	DIN rated power at rpm	Torque at rpm	Years
2.0	AAC	inline-4 SOHC 8v	1,968 cc (120.1 cu in)	84 PS (62 kW; 83 bhp) at 4,300	159 N⋅m (117 lbf⋅ft) at 2,200	1990–2003
2.5	AAF; ACU	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	112 PS (82 kW; 110 bhp) at 4,500	190 N⋅m (140 lbf⋅ft) at 2,200	1990–1997
2.5	AET; APL; AVT	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	115 PS (85 kW; 113 bhp) at 4,500	200 N⋅m (148 lbf⋅ft) at 2,200	1997–2003
2.8 VR6	AES	VR6 DOHC 12v	2,792 cc (170.4 cu in)	140 PS (103 kW; 138 bhp) at 4,500	240 N⋅m (177 lbf⋅ft) at 3,000	1996–2000
2.8 VR6	AMV, AXK	VR6 DOHC 24v	2,792 cc (170.4 cu in)	204 PS (150 kW; 201 bhp) at 6,200	245 N⋅m (181 lbf⋅ft) at 2,500	2000–2003

Diesel engines
Indirect injection

Model	Engine ID code	Engine configuration	Engine displacement	DIN rated power at rpm	Torque at rpm	Years
1.9 D	1X	inline-4 SOHC 8v	1,896 cc (115.7 cu in)	61 PS (45 kW; 60 bhp) at 3,700	127 N⋅m (94 lbf⋅ft) at 1,700	1990–1995
1.9 TD	ABL	inline 4 SOHC 8v	1,896 cc (115.7 cu in)	68 PS (50 kW; 67 bhp) at 3,700	140 N⋅m (103 lbf⋅ft) at 2,000-3,000	1993–2003
2.4 D	AJA	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,370 cc (144.6 cu in)	75 PS (55 kW; 74 bhp) at 3,700	160 N⋅m (118 lbf⋅ft) at 1,900-2,900	1997–2003
2.4 D	AAB	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,370 cc (144.6 cu in)	78 PS (57 kW; 77 bhp) at 3,700	164 N⋅m (121 lbf⋅ft) at 1,800	1990–1998

Turbocharged Direct Injection

Model	Engine ID code	Engine configuration	Engine displacement	DIN rated power at rpm	Torque at rpm	Compression Ratio	Years
2.5 TDI	AJT; AYY	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	88 PS (65 kW; 87 bhp) at 3,700	195 N⋅m (144 lbf⋅ft) at 2,000-2,600	19,5	1998–2003
2.5 TDI	ACV; AUF; AYC; AXL	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	102 PS (75 kW; 101 bhp) at 3,500	250 N⋅m (184 lbf⋅ft) at 1,900-2,300	19,5	1995–2003
2.5 TDI	AHY; AXG	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	151 PS (111 kW; 149 bhp) at 4,000	295 N⋅m (218 lbf⋅ft) at 1,900-3000	19,0	1998–2003

 

[linusmaxe]

Have recently sold our VW T4 2.4 D Westfalia which had driven 225 KM and was really in mint condition. The original factory made campervan looked and performed like brand new and we had invested quite a bit in it the last few years. Everything original, no rust and generally a like new vehicle. We listed it for 13.000 euro's and 8 people called me within 1 hour from putting her online. The first who came to look at her and testdrive, bought her for asking price. Which was more then we paid for it when we bought it ourselves quite a few years back. I'm quite sure we could have sold it for more, had we had the patience and willingness, but we were happy with the result. The new owner seems reaslly happy to. I do remember that when we bought ours a few years back, the difference in qualiyty of the vans we looked at was astounding. Most were rustbuckets that could barely drive. All were supposed to costs thousands. It was hard to find a good one, let alone one that was in really good shape.

Thank you Thomas for your adding your story

 

[linusmaxe]

Maybe my error on possible engine size, I had assumed that at 1996 it would be the direct injection version but the older AAB engine was still in production then as well.

Here are the engine options from Wikipedia which I believe are correct...

Model	Engine ID code	Engine configuration	Engine displacement	DIN rated power at rpm	Torque at rpm	Years
2.0	AAC	inline-4 SOHC 8v	1,968 cc (120.1 cu in)	84 PS (62 kW; 83 bhp) at 4,300	159 N⋅m (117 lbf⋅ft) at 2,200	1990–2003
2.5	AAF; ACU	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	112 PS (82 kW; 110 bhp) at 4,500	190 N⋅m (140 lbf⋅ft) at 2,200	1990–1997
2.5	AET; APL; AVT	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	115 PS (85 kW; 113 bhp) at 4,500	200 N⋅m (148 lbf⋅ft) at 2,200	1997–2003
2.8 VR6	AES	VR6 DOHC 12v	2,792 cc (170.4 cu in)	140 PS (103 kW; 138 bhp) at 4,500	240 N⋅m (177 lbf⋅ft) at 3,000	1996–2000
2.8 VR6	AMV, AXK	VR6 DOHC 24v	2,792 cc (170.4 cu in)	204 PS (150 kW; 201 bhp) at 6,200	245 N⋅m (181 lbf⋅ft) at 2,500	2000–2003

Diesel engines
Indirect injection

Model	Engine ID code	Engine configuration	Engine displacement	DIN rated power at rpm	Torque at rpm	Years
1.9 D	1X	inline-4 SOHC 8v	1,896 cc (115.7 cu in)	61 PS (45 kW; 60 bhp) at 3,700	127 N⋅m (94 lbf⋅ft) at 1,700	1990–1995
1.9 TD	ABL	inline 4 SOHC 8v	1,896 cc (115.7 cu in)	68 PS (50 kW; 67 bhp) at 3,700	140 N⋅m (103 lbf⋅ft) at 2,000-3,000	1993–2003
2.4 D	AJA	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,370 cc (144.6 cu in)	75 PS (55 kW; 74 bhp) at 3,700	160 N⋅m (118 lbf⋅ft) at 1,900-2,900	1997–2003
2.4 D	AAB	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,370 cc (144.6 cu in)	78 PS (57 kW; 77 bhp) at 3,700	164 N⋅m (121 lbf⋅ft) at 1,800	1990–1998

Turbocharged Direct Injection

Model	Engine ID code	Engine configuration	Engine displacement	DIN rated power at rpm	Torque at rpm	Compression Ratio	Years
2.5 TDI	AJT; AYY	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	88 PS (65 kW; 87 bhp) at 3,700	195 N⋅m (144 lbf⋅ft) at 2,000-2,600	19,5	1998–2003
2.5 TDI	ACV; AUF; AYC; AXL	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	102 PS (75 kW; 101 bhp) at 3,500	250 N⋅m (184 lbf⋅ft) at 1,900-2,300	19,5	1995–2003
2.5 TDI	AHY; AXG	inline-5 SOHC 10v	2,461 cc (150.2 cu in)	151 PS (111 kW; 149 bhp) at 4,000	295 N⋅m (218 lbf⋅ft) at 1,900-3000		1998–2003

 

[linusmaxe]

Thank you Rod_vw!

Yea it seems the motor is the 2.4D 78ps one. I test drove another converted vw van from 2008 a week ago with a larger engine and even that felt kind of sluggish. I need to note that I’m not accustomed to driving powerful engines .

 

[westfalia]

Looks good, and looks like a fair price.

 

[ThomasHJ]

That's the AAB motor type. We had the same. It has a reputation for being one of the most reliable engines. On the Dutch VW-forum there's always quite a lot of discussion though, about wheter or not they are suitable for modern day traffic(-speeds). Some people feel they are to slow and do not have enough power and your best bet is to pay a bit more for a TDI-version. The other camp (people who own one ;-) ) feels they are not the fastest, but they get you to wherever you want to go and campervanning is about being relaxt anyway. We have had a lot of fun with ours and it took us all through Europe, over the alps, the pyrenees, the highest peaks of Corsica, etc. But, to be honest, we switched to the T5 when we had teh opportunity, just because sometimes you want to go a bit faster. Expect to drive 100/110 as the fastest you will comfortably drive it. Downhill you might do up to 140 but it wont be fun and absolutely not relaxt. Uphill expect to do a max of 90 but more often 80 or less when it gets really steep. You'll get up, no problem. It'll just go slow. If you're goign to get one, Sweden is a good place to use it, seeing how traffic is much less busy over there.

 

[linusmaxe]

Thank you Thomas, this is really invaluable information for us!

Love this community already.

/L

 

[linusmaxe]

Looks good, and looks like a fair price.

Thanks!

 

[linusmaxe]

Some amazing prices, it’s a little more realistic on AutoScout24.
3 years ago I imported a clean 2000 Coast from Germany to Italy, € 22,900 including all costs, minor rust, needed a clutch and peeing oil from crank & cam both ends, both repairs by VW.

Any old vehical becomes a labour of love, especially if it’s your only car and daily runner, we do about 18,000 km/yr 99% is traveling, or were until Covid.
You need to be handy with the tools.
So far, brake disks, 2 wheel bearings, timing belts, brake master cylinder, vacuum pump, glow plugs, radiator, head light relay mod, EGR clean & blank, blocked cat, shock absorbers.
I carry an un-locked engine ECU for when the immobilizer fails, which it will, a spare ECU is cheaper than a tow to VW.

What’s next? Oh! leaking rear brake cylinder and the handbrake cable looks suspect, some electronic parts are becoming hard to find.

Point is the price is the price, how much are you willing or able to spend on repairs, those with short arms and deep pockets don’t need to apply

A lot of great things to keep in mind here, thank you!

Another thing; would you recommend a vehicle this old to a family of 4 with little to no interest in doing repairs by ourselves? Are we destined to spend a lot for frequent repairs in the years to come or are there Vans that just keeps going without a problem year after year?

 

[sidepod]

One other thing to consider is air con. Not an issue in this country but certainly in Euroshire.
That was one of the reasons I sold our ABB powered lump in favour of a later version.

On the maintenance front I would budget perhaps £2k and take the van straight to a specialist and get a thorough check over/freshen up.
That will probably save you in the long run and give you peace of mind.
I can recommend such a place if required. Someone I trust with my own van.

 

[sidepod]

I ve done this with my last two Westys and apart from basic service they just go.

 

[MrP]

I was in a similar position to you a few years back for our first campervan.

We did buy a 1994 2.4D. To be honest it was great and we sold it to a friend who still has it.

Maintenance wise, make sure you get one with a great service history and it is not smoky or noisey / rattly. Gearbox and clutch must also be good. They go on forever if serviced properly.
Rust is a big issue on these at that age. Have a good look underneath, arches and the front end also rust out. Don't be put off though, much of the rusty areas can be repaired fairly easily and white is easy to respray!!!

The engine is under powered. It is a different driving experience and kind of adds to the fun. It does keep up with modern traffic but does require the crawler lane on hills. Don't expect to do 130kmh in the fast lane... ever!...

 

[sidepod]

On a positive note, from the pics you’ve posted, first impressions are good. Tell tale signs, roof canvas and original paint and interior upholstery all look pretty good. If it has a good service history then you could be on to something

 

[ThomasHJ]

Spent almost 4 months living in one, with my wife and 2 kids.

One other thing to consider is air con. Not an issue in this country but certainly in Euroshire.
That was one of the reasons I sold our ABB powered lump in favour of a later version.

On the maintenance front I would budget perhaps £2k and take the van straight to a specialist and get a thorough check over/freshen up.
That will probably save you in the long run and give you peace of mind.
I can recommend such a place if required. Someone I trust with my own van.

Our T4 had airco. Worked great.

 

[linusmaxe]

One other thing to consider is air con. Not an issue in this country but certainly in Euroshire.
That was one of the reasons I sold our ABB powered lump in favour of a later version.

On the maintenance front I would budget perhaps £2k and take the van straight to a specialist and get a thorough check over/freshen up.
That will probably save you in the long run and give you peace of mind.
I can recommend such a place if required. Someone I trust with my own van.

That’s a great piece of advice!
Do you happen to know any place suited for a checkup here in Sweden? I’m located in the Gothenburg area.

/L

 

[linusmaxe]

On a positive note, from the pics you’ve posted, first impressions are good. Tell tale signs, roof canvas and original paint and interior upholstery all look pretty good. If it has a good service history then you could be on to something

Yea! the top canvas was recently replaced and the paint had only very minor rust spots that all had been addressed..

Thanks for your input once again!

 

[sidepod]

That’s a great piece of advice!
Do you happen to know any place suited for a checkup here in Sweden? I’m located in the Gothenburg area.

/L

Oh no sorry I don’t.
it really does need to be someone who knows the vans plus someone you can trust.
To hand over your van and effectively a blank cheque takes courage. If it works then you have absolute confidence in the van.
They are quite basic machines and built like tanks.

 

[linusmaxe]

Thanks!