Cube fuse & Leisure batterys & Solar

[Californication69]

I’ve been experiencing strange issues with my Lesuire batterys, Solar, starter motor battery and fridge.
Going to document my investigation as I go.
Found so much information from this forum, so thanks to all.

I’ve removed all USB cables from front USB.
No 12v plugs occupied.
Solar is removed from California and Lesuire and starter.

First thing I checked.
Rear Lesuire battery cube fuse.
Surprise, 100A cube.

Not blown as checked +&- terminals and checked top connector + and battery earth strap.
Then checked Pass batt.
Then checked Starter motor.
Found the following voltages.

30th June 2023 13:00
1 hour motorway journey with max charge on.
CP showing 14.4v and 32A

30th June 2023. 21:24.
CP 12.5v -1amp (minus 1A)
Put fridge on #3
Says 12.5v -4 amps.
Should run fridge for 5 days on fridge setting #3
Start batt 12.5v
Pass Batt 12.5v
Rear Batt 12.5v
Rear Batt 12.41v with fridge on.
Engine (running) all 3x Batts at 14.45v
(So lost 0.2v in 8 hours)

1st July 2023. 10:30
(Doors & bonnet opened at 09:45 and all Lesuire light cabin switch off, then left everything open for 20minutes)
CP 12.3v -1A
Front batt 12.3v
Pass Batt 12.4v
Rear Batt 12.4v
Rear Batt 12.31v with fridge on.
Engine running all Batts at 14.45v

2nd July 2023. 10:00
CP 12.2v -1amp
FB 12.18v
PB 12.2v
RB 12.2v
LB 12.1v with fridge on.
Engine on, all Batts at 14.45. Eng Off.
/////
10:30 to 12:00
Turned night heater on for 1.5 hours at max 10.
Checked batteries at 12:30
FB 12.25v
PB 12.15v
RB 12.14v
LB lost 40% of charge in 39 hours.
/////
12:45
Plugged in 240v EHU.
CP 13.2v 16A (should this be 14.4v?)
Front batt 12.14v
Pass Batt 13.24v
Rear Batt 13.24v
Tracker on 13.2 on EHU.
/////
16:00
Tracker on 13.5v
/////
21:00
Tracker on 14.4v
/////
22:00
Tracker on 13.3v
All x3 batts on 13.1v

3rd July 2023 (Monday)
08:45 unplugged EHU
/////
10:00
(10 bars all full on CP)
CP 12.8v -1amp
FB 12.6v
PB 12.8v
RB 12.8v
LB 12.6v with fridge on.
/////
11:45
Max charge is 14.8v 16A
Drove to Kwik Fit on max charge and back.
/////
20:05
CP 12.7v -1amp
(10 bars on battery icon is full)
(Shows 8 bars with 12.7v)
FB 12.6v
PB 12.7v
RB 12.7v
LB 12.5v with fridge on.
/////
23:50
Tracker showing 12.6v

4th July 2023. 09:00
CP 12.7v -1amp (8 blue bars)
FB 12.5v
PB 12.7v
RB 12.7v
LB 12.5v with fridge on.
Engine on, all Batts at 14.45. Eng Off.
/////
21:30
CP 12.5v -1amp (still 8 bars on display panel ?)
FB 12.45v
PB 12.5v
RB 12.5v
LB 12.3v with fridge on.

5th July 2023. 09:00
CP 12.4v -1amp (6 blue bars)
FB 12.3v
PB 12.4v
RB 12.4v
LB 12.2v with fridge on.
/////
21:30
CP 12.3v -1amp (6 blue bars)
FB 12.3v
PB 12.3v
RB 12.3v
LB 12.1v with fridge on.

6th July 2023. 09:00 outside temp 14 degrees.
CP 12.1v -1amp (6 blue bars)
FB 12.3v
PB 12.2v
RB 12.2v
LB 12.1v with fridge on.
/////
21:30
CP 12.1v -1amp (4 blue bars)
FB 12.2v
PB 12.2v
RB 12.2v
LB 12.0v with fridge on.

7th July 2023. 09:00 outside temp 20 degrees.
CP 12.1v -1amp (3 blue bars)
FB 12.2v
PB 12.1v
RB 12.1v
LB 12.0v with fridge on.
////
12.00
Called VW Droitwich.
Spoke with Tech for California’s
He said, 5 days for good lesuire batteries for running the fridge.
But starter shouldn’t have any draw at all. Over 5 days the specs should only have a 0.03v drop.
And the EHU does NOT charge the battery.
So I don’t understand why my starter is charging from EHU ?
Was 12.1v Sunday. After 20 hours charge, it went to 12.6v
He said it might need investigating.
But to pull fuses from lazerlamp fuse holders.
/////
14:00
Pulled lazerlamp fuses from starter motor battery.
Plug into EHU.
Monitor starter battery for another 5 days.

8th July 2023.
16:00 - outside temp 20 degrees.
Still plugged in
CP 13.0v -3amp (10 blue bars) fridge is on. 28 degrees inside Cali.
FB 13.1v
PB 13.2v
RB 13.2v
LB 13.0v with fridge on.
/////
16:15 unplugged EHU.
Starter is 100% being charged from EHU.
But the relay isn’t clicking in when on EHU.
So how does it charge the starter motor battery ??
9th July 2023. 09:00 outside temp 20 degrees.
CP 12.7v -3amp (10 blue bars) fridge is on. 20 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.6v
PB 12.7v
RB 12.7v
LB 12.5v with fridge on.
10th July 2023. 09:00 outside temp 17 degrees.
CP 12.5v -1amp (8 blue bars) fridge is on. 20 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.38v
PB 12.45v
RB 12.45v
LB 12.25v with fridge on.

9th July 2023. 09:00 outside temp 20 degrees.
CP 12.7v -3amp (10 blue bars) fridge is on. 20 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.6v
PB 12.7v
RB 12.7v
LB 12.5v with fridge on.

Starter 100% charging on EHU.

10th July 2023. 09:00 outside temp 17 degrees.
CP 12.5v -1amp (8 blue bars) fridge is on. 20 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.38v
PB 12.45v
RB 12.45v
LB 12.25v with fridge on.

Missed 11th too busy.
Drive to Impact metals Rowley Regis and Sainsbury's for fuel.

12th July 2023. 16:00 outside temp 17 degrees.
CP 12.3v -1amp (5 blue bars) fridge is on. 20 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.4v
PB 12.25v
RB 12.25v
LB 12.1v with fridge on.

13th July 2023. 20:00 outside temp 17 degrees.
CP 12.2v -1amp (4 blue bars) fridge is on. 20 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.26v
PB 12.2v
RB 12.2v
LB 12.0v with fridge on. -4amps.

14th July 2023. 09:15 outside temp 18 degrees.
CP 12.0v -1amp (4 blue bars) fridge is on. 10 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.2v
PB 12.0v
RB 12.0v
LB 11.9v with fridge on. -4amps.
/////
10:00 Plugged into EHU

15th July 2023.
Left to charge for 48 hours.

16th July 2023. 11:15 outside temp 18 degrees.
CP 12.8v -1amp (10 blue bars) fridge is on. 10 degrees inside Cali.
FB 12.6v
PB 13.1v
RB 13.1v
LB - switched fridge off.



So starter battery only charging to 12.6v (95%) on EHU ?
Then after 5 days / 120hours at 12.2v (60%)State of charge.
I don’t have confidence in the starter battery. Losing 35% of charge in 5days.
Not if leaving it in a car park for 10 days.
Nothing is plugged into the starter motor battery.
Removed fuses from Lazer lamps.
Tested twice with lazerlamp fuses in and without.
Same result.



To be continued.

Can’t remove Tracker, as it has its own battery (8th July 2023. Lesuire batteries loom to be working absolutely fine. Charging and discharging whilst fridge on. 5 days of fridge on #3)
S7 tracker connected to Lesuire batterys as the App follows and tracks real time and increases on EHU.

 

[dspuk]

What is the strange behaviour? To my eye all the above looks normal. The battery management on a Cali is so complex and has been worked out to the nth degree by the engineers with how they balance it that you could mad trying to work out every permutation.

Ref the fridge. My understanding is the initial draw is always larger as it takes a while and a bit of juice to get it to working temperature. Once it does the amps level out and the hours left shoot back up.

 

[Californication69]

My issue is with a 100w solar panel on, DuoRacer MPPT, my fridge would turn off after 7 days and my starter went to 11.9v and said, battery low, charge immediately.
So I thought, an issue with solar panel.
No. Roger tested. Works fine.
Tested 10 amp fuse and good voltage to
Starter split relay.
Tested 15 amp fuse and good voltage to rear battery.

So now removed all Solar to batterys & split relay as I want to test batterys with nothing connected.
Apart from Fridge on #3, and should last 5 days with no Solar or EHU.
(Primarily checking battery holding charge. SOH ?)
On Day 5, I’ll charge with EHU for 24 hours.
Then test again.

 

[dspuk]

Still not 100% what the issue is. I think you’re saying your fridge should stay on longer than 7 days off EHU with Solar, but it does not. One assumes that you live in an area of constant sunshine (with the van in that sun at the right angle) and have checked the bulk and floats on your MPPT. When I check mine it’s pretty good at letting me know exactly how much it is putting in and when. Given where I park the van it does not get constant sunshine, but it does a pretty good job and I’d likely get something like 7 days, but not more if I left the fridge on. As Roger says, you could keep it on indefinately, in the right conditions. Which we don’t really have in the UK apart from a few short weeks. Still feels like everything is working normally to me, but maybe I’m being a bit thick, or not reading between your lines.

 

[Californication69]

Still not 100% what the issue is. I think you’re saying your fridge should stay on longer than 7 days off EHU with Solar, but it does not. One assumes that you live in an area of constant sunshine (with the van in that sun at the right angle) and have checked the bulk and floats on your MPPT. When I check mine it’s pretty good at letting me know exactly how much it is putting in and when. Given where I park the van it does not get constant sunshine, but it does a pretty good job and I’d likely get something like 7 days, but not more if I left the fridge on. As Roger says, you could keep it on indefinately, in the right conditions. Which we don’t really have in the UK apart from a few short weeks. Still feels like everything is working normally to me, but maybe I’m being a bit thick, or not reading between your lines.

I’ll explain the whole story, will be easier to understand.
Ordered Ocean, July ‘22
Received 1st Dec ‘22
Should have come with new bellows as MY23
But I now know I have a MY22/23 as I have all one colour bellows. (That’s okay, as I don’t have the leaking issue!)(one less trip to VW)
The exhaust is quite rusty so it’s been sat in a field / parked up for a while.
I installed Solar from day 1.
1x 100w from Roger and cables.
DuoRacer 2210N from AliExpresss.
(20 amp, 390w max) as I will look to add more panels.
Fridge on 24/7, and a dashcam with motion sensor front and rear.
It’s been ok in Jan to March, so happy days.
April & May when we had more sun, fridge is turning off after 7 days.
And one day I had a warning about Starter Batt, low charge. Charge immediately.
Checked voltage = 11.8v
Why is that?
Checked the 10 amp fuse from Duo to front split relay. Fuse is good. Test one end of connector to earth, indeed, 11.9v
Test other side from connector to DuoRacer and zero volts.
Test at the duo racer, zero volts.
So I think the issue is with DuoRacer.
Check Lesuire batterys, they are also low at 12v
Check all connections. All good.
Has Duo Racer packed up? No, unplug everything and plug back in. It’s okay.
In the correct order.
Unplug
3. Solar
2. Lesuire fuse.
1. Starter fuse.
Reconnect
1. Starter fuse.
2. Lesuire fuse
3. Solar.

All working again.
But low voltage from Solar I only saw 12v
And 1 amp.
18 degrees sunny day, no obstructions.
Check panel, with 3 ohm resistor on heat sink, only get 9volts. Cover half of long side of panel, still 9v
Cover other side, only 9volts.
Cover top end by connector volts drop to 3.6.
So sorted. Panel is not working.
Send to Roger to get swapped out.
Roger checks out panel.
Says it’s working ok.
£35 lighter, and panel on way back to me.
So whilst panel is away, start from scratch and test SOC of batteries.
As maybe the issue is with batteries?
Date on batteries is Sept 22. So newish batteries, but have they been allowed to go totally flat, and they are not going to last ?
While I have time on my hands, let’s figure it out.

With no Solar, and not using the Ocean, how long should the batterys last with fridge on #3?
2,3,4 or how many days?

 

[Californication69]

Still not 100% what the issue is. I think you’re saying your fridge should stay on longer than 7 days off EHU with Solar, but it does not. One assumes that you live in an area of constant sunshine (with the van in that sun at the right angle) and have checked the bulk and floats on your MPPT. When I check mine it’s pretty good at letting me know exactly how much it is putting in and when. Given where I park the van it does not get constant sunshine, but it does a pretty good job and I’d likely get something like 7 days, but not more if I left the fridge on. As Roger says, you could keep it on indefinately, in the right conditions. Which we don’t really have in the UK apart from a few short weeks. Still feels like everything is working normally to me, but maybe I’m being a bit thick, or not reading between your lines.

Duo Racer version 2 in production by Epever. I’m in contact with the really good technical support.
IOS did an update in vers. 16 that stopped the Bluetooth BLE module communicating with DuoRacer version 1.
I’ve asked if I can beta test their version 2 DR.
I can provide technical feedback for them from the UK.
So I can’t check historical bulk and floats at present.

I need starter trickle (so rules out Victron)
as I park at airports every week outside, so want to make use of sun / light to charge fridge, and dashcams.

Going to check batterys now for 2nd night of only fridge being on #3
I’ll give it 3 nights, then EHU for 24 hours.
Then test batterys again.

 

[Californication69]

I also heard to run the night heater for one hour on max once a month.
So will do that to create some load on the batterys and see if they recover overnight.
If they go to 12v tomorrow morning, then losing 50% over 3 nights (61 hours) is not right is it ?
Nice easy website to work out hours!

Time Duration Calculator: Time between two dates/times

The Time Duration Calculator will calculate the time that has elapsed/difference between two dates with time.

www.timeanddate.com

 

[Californication69]

Update 21st July 2023.
I am happy with both Lesuire batteries, as they hold enough charge to run the fridge for 5 days and only lose 40% from 12.7 /12.6 to 12.0 over 5 days.

The starter battery, though, I’m not happy with and is losing the 12.6 to 12.2 over 4 days, so I have booked it in with VW to check the starter battery out.

Installed 3x 120w Solar in parallel so can expect to keep the fridge and 2x A119 dash cams going indefinitely I hope.
Will check battery usage of Starlink setup when the 12 to 48v inverter arrives.

Getting 14v and 1 amp when it’s dark, cloudy and overcast.

 

[dspuk]

I notice it’s a dual battery MPPT - are you not trickle charging the starter via the second connection? I want to connect my solar across to the starter just to keep it topped up when off EHU and in two minds to change the MTTP or to buy a Sterling Power battery to battery maintainer. The cost TBH between the two is quite negligible but saves a wire behind the kitchen unit but don’t like the idea of robbing leisures to pay starter.

 

[WelshGas]

I notice it’s a dual battery MPPT - are you not trickle charging the starter via the second connection? I want to connect my solar across to the starter just to keep it topped up when off EHU and in two minds to change the MTTP or to buy a Sterling Power battery to battery maintainer. The cost TBH between the two is quite negligible but saves a wire behind the kitchen unit but don’t like the idea of robbing leisures to pay starter.

Either way the ultimate power source is the Solar Panel.
Once the Starter is charged up it will require minimum input so hardly affecting the Leisure batteries, whichever method is used.

 

[WelshGas]

Either way the ultimate power source is the Solar Panel.
Once the Starter is charged up it will require minimum input so hardly affecting the Leisure batteries, whichever method is used.

Can you monitor the engine battery with the Stirling system only? If not I would go with the MPPT. Its only 1 wire to the engine side of the split charge relay.

 

[dspuk]

Either way the ultimate power source is the Solar Panel.
Once the Starter is charged up it will require minimum input so hardly affecting the Leisure batteries, whichever method is used.

Agreed and I was thinking a new MPPT with dual connectors (mine is single) and a long wire until I discovered the Sterling unit.

I like the ease of install but my next thought was as the main reason is to keep the Dashcam running AND top up the starter (been caught out once) then the dash cam draw, if there wasn't enough solar, could cause a constant trickle from the leisures, eventually draining them.

The proper job is likely swapping the MPPT, and the cost is not much more. Then by using the solar to top up and not effectively stealing power from the leisures it may future proof my solution if I ever decide to park up underground for a few weeks. I guess I answered my own question but was drawn, if you pardon the pun, to the less hassle install.

 

[Californication69]

I notice it’s a dual battery MPPT - are you not trickle charging the starter via the second connection? I want to connect my solar across to the starter just to keep it topped up when off EHU and in two minds to change the MTTP or to buy a Sterling Power battery to battery maintainer. The cost TBH between the two is quite negligible but saves a wire behind the kitchen unit but don’t like the idea of robbing leisures to pay starter.

It’s going in to VW next Monday (for them to check out the starter) so want to leave it out of the loop while Solar is doing it’s thang with lesuires.
I’ve done enough testing to prove the lesuires are working fine.
But not happy with starter, and don’t want to mask the problem and wait however long before I find a flat starter on my return home.
So want it sorted now.
How many solar panels do you have ?
I found with one 100w panel it was ok when it was bright sunlight all day, but a bit of cloud and just didn’t keep them topped up whilst running the fridge all day & night, plus running night heater at night, and two dashcams.
Let alone running other electric devices.
I think a minimum of 2 panels is needed if you running fridge every day…
And also trickle the starter.
Epever are bringing out a brand new MPPT in Q3, or Q4 this year.
So I’d hold off buying a new MPPT as of yet.
I’m trying to persuade EPEver in China to let me have one 12/24v 30amp DuoRacer for testing proposes !
It will have a new api inside to enable logging and Wi-Fi/ BT. So they’ve (Epever tech support) told me.

Some questions I’m trying to find the answer to. Of the Solar charges Lesuire to 13v, then you switch engine on to drive, spilt charge cuts it and you could potentially have 13v go into a 50% charged starter let’s say at 12v.
What happens then? Nothing, the starter charge’s at 13v ? And whilst driving, the alternator has an easy life and dosent charge the starter?

Btw, running the wire behind fridge took maybe 1 hour, from the MPPt, to the spilt charge and crimping & soldering and connecting to right hand side.
But not the 2 hours of removing rear shelf, box’s, slide out tray, and then all back in again !

I’d run the wire and wait for the new MPPt…

 

[Californication69]

California is in at VW Birmingham.
Interesting that Dave the Sales manager mentioned that there are more California’s coming in with battery problems now over the last 3 years.
So obviously something changed for the 6.1 on the electrical side that’s draining batterys.
The older T5 & 6, you could leave for 6 months and get in and start it up with no issues …

 

[WelshGas]

California is in at VW Birmingham.
Interesting that Dave the Sales manager mentioned that there are more California’s coming in with battery problems now over the last 3 years.
So obviously something changed for the 6.1 on the electrical side that’s draining batterys.
The older T5 & 6, you could leave for 6 months and get in and start it up with no issues …

Just got back from Sydney, NSW today.
Van was at Heathrow T5 longstanding for 4 weeks, 4 days and 4 hrs and started on first turn of the key. The only thing I do when parking there is disable the internal alarm so that the alarm is not triggered by any creepy crawly.

 

[Californication69]

Just got back from Sydney, NSW today.
Van was at Heathrow T5 longstanding for 4 weeks, 4 days and 4 hrs and started on first turn of the key. The only thing I do when parking there is disable the internal alarm so that the alarm is not triggered by any creepy crawly.

Was your fridge on ?
Parked outside? (I’m guessing yes, as inside is short & business stay)
Which MPPT for your Solar ( charging starter as well as Lesuire?)

 

[Californication69]

So to finish the questions I raised.
And VW Birmingham, Swansway & Robyn the Tech was great BTW.
They are fairly certain that, because I leave the fridge on for long periods of time, this is the main issue of the drain.
When the fridge is on they see the starter Batt is powering a fuse, which powers another fuse bank to power the control panel.
The control panel is the one controlling the fridge.
Controls the switching on and off of the compressor. So that was the main current draw.
Wasn’t as much as I saw, but they did a high amperage draw for 45 minutes and this drains at well below the acceptable rate.
They then did a slow draw over 12 hours (with fridge off) and again, it’s at an acceptable rate.
So no issue with starter battery.

They said with my 360w Solar and 13v and 1amp trickle to starter (Duo Racer) I shouldn’t see the issue again and as long as it is not too cloudy, I should see the battery is being well charged.
Even with leaving the 2x dashcams on.
I’ll have to park outside when leaving it at the airports.

There is no official word from VW CV about how long, is along time, to leave the fridge on for.
I did ask if you are driving to Tibet and want a cold beer then a few months should be ok ?

 

[WelshGas]

Was your fridge on ?
Parked outside? (I’m guessing yes, as inside is short & business stay)
Which MPPT for your Solar ( charging starter as well as Lesuire?)

No fridge on. One 8 yr old 100w solar panel connected only to the rear leisure battery.
I‘ still old fashioned using a 8 yr old MPPT single channel.

 

[yossarian]

I've parked up for 3 months and 2 months in an urban canyon during winter. 100W on the roof. I monitored the battery voltage remotely the last trip and achieved float voltage 6 weeks after parking up.

It's a no brainer to bridge the busses -- increases available energy by 3x. I have a circuit breaker in there now which I can manually trip or close. One could pull the 4 fuses for J608 and the one fuse for the panel SH12 or something like that. I didn't get round to that. My camera is powered by my house.