Aux heater has stopped working completely - T5 California SE (2006)

[halfcrown]

The Aux heater, which had always been functioning correctly is now not doing anything at all.

I often use it after a dog-walk in cold weather. I switch it on with the remote when I'm in range towards the end of the walk, and switch it off again before I drive off. It's lovely getting into a warm van. That was until yesterday.

I hadn't used the heater for 2 or 3 weeks, because the weather has been fairly mild, but yesterday evening I felt cold. I used the remote as usual. But when I got to the van, the heater was not running. So:

1. I tried switching it on with the remote. At first the fan started, but stopped again after a couple of seconds.
2. I checked the battery charge (12.7v) and fuel (7/8 of a tank) and tried switching it on with the button on the control panel. The indicator light changed to amber, the icon came up on the display. But absolutely nothing happened.
3. I tried rebooting the control panel - still nothing, I tried leaving the panel off for 1 minute - no change.
4. I tried switching it on and off with the remote - the remote signalled it had connected (steady light) but the control panel did not respond at all.
5. I started the engine and tried all of the above again - no change.

This morning I've done some more diagnosis:

1. I checked the fuses under the fascia, and the 25A fuse under the front left seat - all sound
2. I went into the diagnostic menu on the control panel and select VW Diagnostic - it said "No Error!"
3. I checked the back for the control pane for loose connections - everything sound.
4. I put the van on hook-up and tried everything again - no change.

So the current situation is this:

1. There is no response at all from the heater - neither the fan, nor the fuel pump or anything it is just dead.
2. The control panel responds as if it were all working correctly.
3. The remote appears as if it were working correctly, but the control panel doesn't respond to it.

I am at a loss now. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ray

 

[ArunAlec]

Have you got more than 25% in your fuel tank? Heater won’t operate if it thinks diesel is low.

 

[B J G]

Have you got more than 25% in your fuel tank? Heater won’t operate if it thinks diesel is low.

He says 7/8th of a tank

 

[ArunAlec]

He says 7/8th of a tank

Missed that!

 

[bvddobb]

From what I read, it seems you only have had it running for short spells of time. So it is entirely possible that the burner is clogged up with soot, certainly after 15 years or so.
Webasto say its life expectancy is 10 years and when on, it should run at least 30 minutes each time, to reach high enough temperatures log enough to burn away the soot (a bit like regenerating your DPF).
You wouldn't be the first to open it and find the burner completely black and clogged. It can be cleaned and replaced, though, that is the good news!

 

[halfcrown]

From what I read, it seems you only have had it running for short spells of time. So it is entirely possible that the burner is clogged up with soot, certainly after 15 years or so.
Webasto say its life expectancy is 10 years and when on, it should run at least 30 minutes each time, to reach high enough temperatures log enough to burn away the soot (a bit like regenerating your DPF).
You wouldn't be the first to open it and find the burner completely black and clogged. It can be cleaned and replaced, though, that is the good news!

Oh that's really interesting! I did not know about this limitation.

When I'm camping (which in a normal year would be around 20 nights outside the height of summer) I would usually run it for a couple of hours or so in the evening, and maybe an hour in the morning.

Of course, we haven't had a normal year for a couple of years, and the last time I ran it for an extended time would have been in September. Since then I have used it after a dog walk (so probably around 15-30 minutes) maybe only a couple of dozen times or so - it has been a remarkably mild winter this year.

Would that be enough to coke it up?

If it were all coked up, would that stop the fuel pump and fan from working, but look to the control panel as though it were working?

Who could I get to clean it?

Thanks,
Ray

 

[Cali1]

The Aux heater, which had always been functioning correctly is now not doing anything at all.

I often use it after a dog-walk in cold weather. I switch it on with the remote when I'm in range towards the end of the walk, and switch it off again before I drive off. It's lovely getting into a warm van. That was until yesterday.

I hadn't used the heater for 2 or 3 weeks, because the weather has been fairly mild, but yesterday evening I felt cold. I used the remote as usual. But when I got to the van, the heater was not running. So:

1. I tried switching it on with the remote. At first the fan started, but stopped again after a couple of seconds.
2. I checked the battery charge (12.7v) and fuel (7/8 of a tank) and tried switching it on with the button on the control panel. The indicator light changed to amber, the icon came up on the display. But absolutely nothing happened.
3. I tried rebooting the control panel - still nothing, I tried leaving the panel off for 1 minute - no change.
4. I tried switching it on and off with the remote - the remote signalled it had connected (steady light) but the control panel did not respond at all.
5. I started the engine and tried all of the above again - no change.

This morning I've done some more diagnosis:

1. I checked the fuses under the fascia, and the 25A fuse under the front left seat - all sound
2. I went into the diagnostic menu on the control panel and select VW Diagnostic - it said "No Error!"
3. I checked the back for the control pane for loose connections - everything sound.
4. I put the van on hook-up and tried everything again - no change.

So the current situation is this:

1. There is no response at all from the heater - neither the fan, nor the fuel pump or anything it is just dead.
2. The control panel responds as if it were all working correctly.
3. The remote appears as if it were working correctly, but the control panel doesn't respond to it.

I am at a loss now. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ray

I had the same issue , scratched my head tried everything you have.
I tested fuses all showing working.
My fuse layout I’ve later learnt is different to the one VW gave me. It’s a 2012 Ocean.
Decided on a whim to swap out the fuse starting under the passenger seat- it worked straight away and it was the little blighter that I’ve circled.
I’ve since put a 25a in there , I’ve done two trips to the alps and worked flawlessly.
Hope this may help .

 

[WelshGas]

Oh that's really interesting! I did not know about this limitation.

When I'm camping (which in a normal year would be around 20 nights outside the height of summer) I would usually run it for a couple of hours or so in the evening, and maybe an hour in the morning.

Of course, we haven't had a normal year for a couple of years, and the last time I ran it for an extended time would have been in September. Since then I have used it after a dog walk (so probably around 15-30 minutes) maybe only a couple of dozen times or so - it has been a remarkably mild winter this year.

Would that be enough to coke it up?

If it were all coked up, would that stop the fuel pump and fan from working, but look to the control panel as though it were working?

Who could I get to clean it?

Thanks,
Ray

Make sure you check the fuses with a multimeter or by swapping them out with a working fuse. Visual assessment doesn't always pick up a faulty fuse.

 

[flying banana]

if you can remove the heater you could take it to webasto for a service. if you strip it down your self you will need a service kit which would consist of the various gaskets that will be brittle and break when you take the burner tube apart. it can be done with some basic tool kits and some confidence to have a go. i would also replace the glow pin and flame sensor (usually a magic eye type device that changes resistence when it sees the flame) .
as said previously have a second look at those fuses first.

 

[halfcrown]

I had the same issue , scratched my head tried everything you have.
I tested fuses all showing working.
My fuse layout I’ve later learnt is different to the one VW gave me. It’s a 2012 Ocean.
Decided on a whim to swap out the fuse starting under the passenger seat- it worked straight away and it was the little blighter that I’ve circled.
I’ve since put a 25a in there , I’ve done two trips to the alps and worked flawlessly.
Hope this may help .

View attachment 89237

 

[B J G]

Everything from a new unit to parts and info on here

D4 Airtronic | Butler Technik

D4 Airtronic | Technical Library for Webasto and Eberspacher Heating products and Victron Energy Solar and Battery Power. Manuals, PDFs, Guides, Fault Codes

www.butlertechnik.com

 

[halfcrown]

Good advice from WelshGas about using a multimeter to test the fuses. I've just finished re-testing them.

These are the ones I've tested from under the fascia:

top set: 1(25A), 14 (30A), 25 (5A);
bottom set 23 (10A) 29 (25A), 30 (5A).

I also tested the 25A and 80A fuses under the passenger seat.

The arrangement is a little different from Cali1's - I don't have a fuse next to the 25A. I have, however identified what they all should be from Mark_Dyche's post from 2012!

The result, however is that all the fuses are sound, according to the multimeter.

So, unless someone can point me to a fuse I haven't tested, I believe the fault lies elsewhere!

 

[halfcrown]

if you can remove the heater you could take it to webasto for a service. if you strip it down your self you will need a service kit which would consist of the various gaskets that will be brittle and break when you take the burner tube apart. it can be done with some basic tool kits and some confidence to have a go. i would also replace the glow pin and flame sensor (usually a magic eye type device that changes resistence when it sees the flame) .
as said previously have a second look at those fuses first.

Unfortunately removing the heater is beyond me - I could ask my garage to do that, but they were reluctant to do very much on this.

 

[halfcrown]

Everything from a new unit to parts and info on here

D4 Airtronic | Butler Technik

D4 Airtronic | Technical Library for Webasto and Eberspacher Heating products and Victron Energy Solar and Battery Power. Manuals, PDFs, Guides, Fault Codes

www.butlertechnik.com

Ok - that's an interesting page. How would I know whether I have a Webasto or an Eberspächer unit?

Also - where would I see the diagnostic codes?

Thanks,
Ray

 

[WelshGas]

Ok - that's an interesting page. How would I know whether I have a Webasto or an Eberspächer unit?

Also - where would I see the diagnostic codes?

Thanks,
Ray

There should be a sticker on the Drivers door B pillar with details on the Diesel Heaters fitted.
Normally there are 2.

Webasto - Engine Coolant Heater. Automatic and comes on if ambient temperature 5c or less, to help heat up engine quickly.

Eberspacher - Diesel Parking Heater controlled by Control Panel and/or Remote.

As you don’t say what part of the country you are, I can’t give you any advice on getting it serviced, but many long distance HGVs have these heaters fitted as do many sea going leisure craft.
A Google search will give some companies.

 

[flying banana]

With it being an older van have youu had the earth shunt mod done? That could be the issuue

 

[halfcrown]

There should be a sticker on the Drivers door B pillar with details on the Diesel Heaters fitted.
Normally there are 2.

Webasto - Engine Coolant Heater. Automatic and comes on if ambient temperature 5c or less, to help heat up engine quickly.

Eberspacher - Diesel Parking Heater controlled by Control Panel and/or Remote.

As you don’t say what part of the country you are, I can’t give you any advice on getting it serviced, but many long distance HGVs have these heaters fitted as do many sea going leisure craft.
A Google search will give some companies.

Ah excellent advice, massive thanks!

I found the stickers on the door itself, rather than the actual pillar.

So, I have a Webasto Air Top 3500 ST Diesel. I've downloaded and looked through the manual.

On the basis that I have already removed and replaced all the fuses, and otherwise the cabling has not been touched, I rather think it likely that I have a "Permanent heater fault lock-out" which happens when the "Permanent flame failure counter" reaches 3. This can only be reset using the PC diagnostic tool - and presumably I should really get to the bottom of why the flame failure counter kept incrementing - perhaps I need a new burner?

On the Webasto UK site, I've found a local dealer, and they can have a look at it on Friday for me.

The next instalment will follow after then....

 

[halfcrown]

With it being an older van have youu had the earth shunt mod done? That could be the issuue

That sounds painful!

On the other hand, remembering the electrical problems that started appearing with my 1991 T4 California once it turned 21, that sounds like it could be an idea.

What's involved?

 

[WelshGas]

That sounds painful!

On the other hand, remembering the electrical problems that started appearing with my 1991 T4 California once it turned 21, that sounds like it could be an idea.

What's involved?

It involves fitting a new earth under the fridge.
Symptoms involve flickering internal lights when starting up the Heater.
As you are a VIP member there are full instructions available in the Resources section of the forum.

As your vehicle is 2012 year this problem is unlikely but not impossible.

 

[B J G]

When testing fuses I've found that checking for 12Volts on both sides of the fuse is best as it shows that the 12volt is there or not which can help to isolate a problem.

Fuse might be OK but if no 12volt supply with that circuit 'on' then fault further up the circuit

Simple screwdriver style testers (pointed end) on Amazon & EBAY about £7

 

[B J G]

Ok - that's an interesting page. How would I know whether I have a Webasto or an Eberspächer unit?

Also - where would I see the diagnostic codes?

Thanks,
Ray

It'll be difficult as normally these heaters have their own control panel installed, in the case of the Cali it is relayed to the VW Control Panel for display.
In your case you have no info.

It looks like a job for getting under (ideally on a ramp) to check connections and power to the heater unit.

Mine failed but not completely dead soon after new and it was a wire off inside the unit. Warranty fix so I never got involved.

 

[B J G]

There is a complete heater that may suit on EBAY which might be worth considering if the heater needs replacing.
Listed as > 12v diesel Webasto Air Top Evo 3900 3.9Kw heater

 

[flying banana]

Here's a long shot for you. We have large webastos where I work . When they lock out after multiple flame outs there is a way to reset them without a pc. Here goes.... Call for heat by turning it on. Nothing happens as locked out. Now kill the power by pulling the fuse, put fuse back in and call for heat again.... now within 12 seconds kill all the main heater power again by pulling fuse or battery lead . Now try it.

 

[flying banana]

It involves fitting a new earth under the fridge.
Symptoms involve flickering internal lights when starting up the Heater.
As you are a VIP member there are full instructions available in the Resources section of the forum.

As your vehicle is 2012 year this problem is unlikely but not impossible.

Isn't this a 06 van?

 

[WelshGas]

Isn't this a 06 van?

Yes you’re correct. I missed the 2006 in the thread title. My mistake.
However, as there has been no mention of any problems before, lights flickering or heater starting but failing to ignite and run, the Earth shunt is probably not causing a problem or has been sorted.