After Market Wheels - WARNING!

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Where are you mentioning that on your site out of interest? Only reason I ask is that I was just looking at the Sparco Gravels and note on the Sparco website that they are TUV certified, but couldn‘t see it in your ad for them:

Gravel - Sparco Wheels

Sparco Gravel is a powerful wheel, yet lightweight in its lines. It has an outer lip with a polygonal cutout motif which, in addition to reducing the weight of the wheel itself, is also a key design element. The point of departure or, better yet, of inspiration, was again the overseas 4x4 world...

www.sparcowheels.com

https://www.roguealloy.co.uk/product-page/17-sparco-gravel-rally-bronze

Fully appreciate you’re a UK company and it’s not a requirement but it might be worth mentioning it within the ads, then there is zero doubt.

Jimmy

Not mentioned on Wheelbase’s website either. Goes to show that TüV testing isn’t necessarily a big differentiator in the UK where regulations don’t require independent testing. You can see why companies that don’t sell to countries where this is required, are perhaps reluctant to go to the expense of getting wheels independently tested. Just because a wheel hasn’t got TüV certification, doesn’t mean they’re no good. Plenty of manufacturers have TüV tested lines and non TüV tested lines (e.g. Wolfrace). Same goes for aftermarket suspension kit.

 

[Corradobrit]

Where are you mentioning that on your site out of interest? Only reason I ask is that I was just looking at the Sparco Gravels and note on the Sparco website that they are TUV certified, but couldn‘t see it in your ad for them:

Gravel - Sparco Wheels

Sparco Gravel is a powerful wheel, yet lightweight in its lines. It has an outer lip with a polygonal cutout motif which, in addition to reducing the weight of the wheel itself, is also a key design element. The point of departure or, better yet, of inspiration, was again the overseas 4x4 world...

www.sparcowheels.com

https://www.roguealloy.co.uk/product-page/17-sparco-gravel-rally-bronze

Fully appreciate you’re a UK company and it’s not a requirement but it might be worth mentioning it within the ads, then there is zero doubt.

Jimmy

Nice find. Really liking those Sparco Gravel. The Terra look good too. Made by OZ so you know they are well made and probably in Italy.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Nice find. Really liking those Sparco Gravel. The Terra look good too. Made by OZ so you know they are well made and probably in Italy.

I know. Thought I was all set with the Navis ones as well. Can’t rush these things I guess

 

[Lambeth Cali]

That's exactly what I was going to say! Why on earth anyone would want to make their van worse than new is beyond me. It's like the craziness in the states where people fit giant low profile tyres to 4x4 pick up trucks. Smaller wheels are generally better for fuel economy and handling on a van, and if VW thinks they are right for the van than so be it. This trend toward larger wheels makes no sense.

Blinging up VW vans has always been a thing but after a few years when things become classics, it’s the original stuff that people want. Not that I have any intention of selling.

 

[Corradobrit]

Blinging up VW vans has always been a thing but after a few years when things become classics, it’s the original stuff that people want. Not that I have any intention of selling.

Which is why you never sell the original parts.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Even if they did have the right certification, or were VW options, Comfort Insurance told me that if I changed my wheels from those originally fitted to my vehicle I would incur an extra 10% premium. That was enough warning about changing wheels to make me reconsider.

I think that maybe dependent on the price of the wheels. I informed Comfort of my wheel change, they asked for make and cost of the replacements, it didn’t affect the premium.

 

[Cwcltd]

I think that maybe dependent on the price of the wheels. I informed Comfort of my wheel change, they asked for make and cost of the replacements, it didn’t affect the premium.

Same with me; put Wolfrace Explorer on my Cali, told Comfort and no change to my premium.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Blinging up VW vans has always been a thing but after a few years when things become classics, it’s the original stuff that people want. Not that I have any intention of selling.

Might be a while before T6.1 Woodstocks and the like are classics

To my eye, all options but the Devonports look aftermarket. And there are plenty of those kicking about to retrofit.

I find the aesthetic of most current VW wheels too bling eg Santiagos on the Golf GTI.

I’ve made the mistake of sitting on cars waiting for them to become modern classics. Right now the 911 Turbo festering in my garage is the latest example.

If it’s a return on capital game, the money is better off elsewhere.

Of course, if you’re keeping the van regardless for the long term and the potential classic appreciation is a secondary/tertiary factor, that’s another matter entirely.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Blinging up VW vans has always been a thing but after a few years when things become classics, it’s the original stuff that people want. Not that I have any intention of selling.

I’ll be dead before my 2023 Cali is a classic so I won’t be worrying about that!!

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Blinging up Vw’s is a bit like getting tattoos: addictive, expensive and of questionable benefit! I like doing both!

 

[SheffieldSteel]

16:28
This is a rather lengthy reply but I think it needs to be said as I see a number of readers are jumping to conclusions after reading Rogues reply without seeing any evidence. I totally agree that there are two sides to each story and this was my story which I'm sharing.

Firstly, there is so much interest in this topic and thanks for all those that read and contributed because in my opinion its an important topic. I am also quite glad that Rogue have had their input but the topic has been deflected considerably from what I posted, which is…

“I want to share with you my experience and it should be a warning to others considering purchasing after market wheels.

My suggestion to anyone looking to change the wheels...I would suggest finding the wheel that you like and then ask the company for the testing certificate.”

The reason that I posted this is because I see that people are putting these kind of wheels on expensive new vans without any thought about the certification of the wheels and that’s without even discussing safety. I know because I was also that person.

I want to stress that the post was not to have a dig or bad mouth Rogue or any dealer and the post clearly did not do that. The post was to share what I had experienced and lessons learned with buying these wheels. This is regardless of the country that you live. This is why we use forums for this exact purpose.

Before I continue and reply to some of the comments including Rogues lengthy post, this from Grigio Van Grigio sums up the situation…

From the replies,
Grigio Van Grigio said:

"Certification and load rating go hand in hand.
Anyone can say the wheels are suitable for your van but that only means they fit.
Unfortunately in this country it’s not illegal to sell stuff that’s not fit for purpose. It’s down to the muppets buying it to do their homework"

This is true and that was certainly me and that’s why I am sharing my experience. I was the muppet by not doing my homework. I've come to learn that In the UK a dealer seems to be able to sell you any wheels without any certification or any form of paperwork which I found hard to believe.

No where in the post did I say the wheels where unfit or useless and neither did I say that I was hoodwinked in to buying these. I chose the wheels from the website not thinking anything about certification or paperwork. In fact the wheels looked pretty cool and the ride was comfy. Issues only came about when I asked for paperwork.

I didn’t open the post to have a bun fight with Rogue but now they have made statements which are not entirely true, I feel that I am obliged to reply.

A few facts before I reply which seem to have been misled..

I do live in Switzerland
I did not move to Switzerland and import the van
I have a Swiss registered Ducato
TUV is not a requirement in Switzerland

I've cut and paste the comments (in bold) made by Rogue from their post and made my replies…

--- start of comments ---

The problem didn’t come when you told your insurance company. It was when you decided to move to Switzerland.
FALSE - I already lived in Switzerland. I did not move to Switzerland or import a van to Switzerland during the time of wheel purchase. I was upfront is specifying that the wheels where for my Swiss registered Ducato. It would have been appreciated if you already knew about certification requirements across Europe and shared this knowledge.

In Switzerland you require a TUV approved wheel, we don’t advertise these wheels as having that, only that they are load rated and tested to 1250kg
FALSE - TUV is not a requirement in Switzerland but the TUV and other EU/UK standards are accepted with appropriate documentation.

We have TUV approved wheels on our website, but you opted for the more economy option.
FALSE - I didn’t realise that there was an option or that I was buying economy ones? After asking for documentation, Rogue informed me that they don’t sell TUV approved wheels as its too expensive (May 23)

We’ve provided you with the origin of the wheels and even the address of the factory they were made in.
TRUE/FALSE - Initially I was told that they do not know the manufacturer as they deal with an agent. Eventually after much persistence, I was given a name of a company that makes wheels in China. Quanxi Industrial Park , Wuyi County .Zhejiang Province.China. I could not verify if the wheels were made there.

The wheels in question were for a Ducato, yet you keep posting the same scathing reviews on every forum
FALSE - this is the only website that I have posted and mentioned the name Rogue or after market wheels.

We do not require to have TUV approval in the uk, nor do we ask our customers if they plan on moving to Switzerland or Germany with every purchase
FALSE - I initially spoke with Rogue and discussed shipping directly to Switzerland or collect from UK. This is clarified in Rogues comment below about tax dumping.

We’ve offered you a full refund even though the wheels have been on for over a year, and you’ve been bad mouthing us since last may
FALSE - This has never been offered. I've asked for refund more than once since May 2023 but no offer.

We’ve provided the relevant load certificates
FALSE - No load certificates have ever been provided. A document has been provided (not a load certificate) which I will share further in the post.

We obtained information on the wheels/factory/factory workers.. something we’ve never been asked to do as it just isn’t relevant in the uk
TRUE/FALSE - I asked for the details of the wheels and wheel manufacturer, isn't this a normal request? Never asked for factory workers, seems a bizarre question.

The Swiss required TUV approval, the wheels don’t have it, he then threatens ‘social media reviews’… here we are
TRUE/FALSE - I asked for a document from the manufacturer stating that the wheels are suitable as you advertise. I don’t recall ever asking for a TUV certificate because I didn’t know what one was until Rogue infomed me. Rogue told me that I needed TUV approved wheels for Switzerland only after I had purchased the wheels. I did say that If I didn’t get refunded then I would share reviews. To this date I have not done so. I'm only replying to Rogues comments now.

We sent the wheels to Barnsley. We ship to Switzerland, had he have bought them and wanted them there, we wouldn’t have shipped as customs would’ve been very difficult with anti dumping taxes
TRUE - Rogue shipped to Barnsley as shipping to Switzerland was a logistical nightmare.

We sell tuv approved wheels, he opted for our own brand
FALSE - already covered above, the statement is irrelevant and a distraction.

Yes JWL tested, Japan light Alloy Wheel Standard.
FALSE - No certificate as ever been produced. If you have a JWL certificate then PLEASE share with me and even this forum. I asked about this certificate but was told Rogue or other suppliers do not have it.

---end of comments ---

NOTE!! After numerous calls and emails to Rogue during the course of a month, I finally receive this 'certificate' from Rogue

However, there seems to be quite an amount of important data missing from what you would expect on a testing certificate…

Manufacturer Name
Manufacturer Address
Signatures
Stamp
Kite marks or Standards marks
No code which link the wheel to document other that an out of focus image of the wheel.

..document will be added below…

Just to note. There is no marking on the actual wheels other that a stamp that says '1250'


When I again call and ask rogue about the validity of the document and fundamental missing data, I later receive an updated version with a signature of a Rogue director and timestamp - Alarm Bells!!

NOTE !! - Everything that I have commented on above can be backed up with email evidence.

For the posters that quickly read Rogues comments (without evidence) and jumped to a conclusion that the OP is bad mouthing them, please read the post again.


At the end of the day, it was a costly exercise. Rogue could have done the right thing, but instead I just received an email from Rogue saying….

-- start of email ---
without prejudice
Just to confirm we have passed this on to our solicitor who is now proceeding with a claim against you for defamation
Correspondence from us will now be via said solicitors
Regards

www.roguealloy.co.uk
Info@roguealloy.co.uk
‘GO ROGUE’

--- end of email ---

Good Luck Rogue with that!

 

[SheffieldSteel]

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Personal view…legal action is reactionary and a waste of everyone’s time. Hope you can both come to an amicable solution (if one is still being sought) and @Roguealloyco, suggest you invest a couple of hours making the certification information a little clearer on your website.

 

[Velma's Dad]

What I've learnt or at least had confirmed from this thread:

• UK aftermarket wheels market is a minefield, no standards mandatory. What does "load rated" even mean, unless backed up by testing/certification documentation?
• If I was shopping for wheels and the prospective supplier couldn't instantly provide all relevant test/certification on request (or, make clear that the wheels are untested copies), I would be walking away.

Fortunately I'm quite happy with the wheels my Cali came on.

 

[pjm-84]

Nut torque at 120nm?

 

[andyinluton]

Having been involved a couple of years ago with importing electrical fittings and taps / shower heads direct from china and Japan that test certificate is exactly what I would expect to see. What more are you expecting?

 

[Corradobrit]

Just a personal opinion over brunch.
Typical EU bureaucracy from what I can tell. The new wheels do not meet Certificate of Conformity required for homologation to the Ducato. If the wheels came with TüV certification no worries. But they don't and whatever Rogue offered up was unacceptable. The Ducato probably didn't get its Swiss version of the MOT for this non conformity. Hence the mess OP finds himself in.

Agree with what was written above. Rogue should be more transparent as to what does and does not have leading body certifications. And the implications of not having those tests. Many sites have this sort of info on a FAQ page so it doesn't pollute the main listing page, with a pointer towards the related info regarding certifications, jurisdictions etc. Expecting Rogue to be forthcoming via email or verbally is not good enough.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

In the interests of accuracy, the comments attributed to myself were actually made by @sidepod in response to one of my posts.

It’s pretty clear you’re in some protracted disagreement on the facts which we won’t get to the bottom of, or indeed are any of our concern. You could have made the very valid point you were trying to make without making this disagreement public and risking the legal action you now find yourself facing.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I’ll be dead before my 2023 Cali is a classic so I won’t be worrying about that!!

I think T4s can reasonably be considered classics. Ended in 2004 so after 19yrs!

My 2008 Golf Gti that I just sold, I would think was becoming collectible. Everything completely as when I bought it apart from the Bluetooth dongle in the back of the stereo. The original telephone dial wheels were better 16” than 17” imo.

 

[Californication69]

Expensive (or not, if you have the spondoolies) mistake.
I agree, now we all know, if you want a different wheel, you will have to ask insurers what they will accept. OEM or some form of UKCA marking / conformity, or would they accept JWL & VIA.
My Chinese paperwork is the almost the same, with a nice red star
My wheels are marked JWL & VIA, wheel size, load rating, part number, year made.
Whether my insurance will accept it or not is another matter.
Very interesting and informative thread.
Thanks to the OP for bringing up this legal minefield.

 

[sidepod]

As things go in Forum World, not a bad punch up.

FYI, I’ve suffered a rim fail on my van, twice.
Not a massive drama, just loss of air pressure.
Rolled to a stop. Spare on. Crack on.

 

[Corradobrit]

FYI, I’ve suffered a rim fail on my van, twice.
Not a massive drama, just loss of air pressure.
Rolled to a stop. Spare on. Crack on.

TüV, VIA, JWA certified? In over 40 years never had that happen on OEM or aftermarket rims? But if I bought uncertified Chinese knockoffs I might have a different story to tell.

 

[Californication69]

In all seriousness, is this why you have the legal protection thing for legal disputes on house insurance ?
I’m looking at NFU mutual for house insurance (sorry off topic) but when they ask me if I want legal added. Would that be for something like this ?

 

[WelshGas]

In all seriousness, is this why you have the legal protection thing for legal disputes on house insurance ?
I’m looking at NFU mutual for house insurance (sorry off topic) but when they ask me if I want legal added. Would that be for something like this ?

Normally property related .

 

[sidepod]

TüV, VIA, JWA certified? In over 40 years never had that happen on OEM or aftermarket rims? But if I bought uncertified Chinese knockoffs I might have a different story to tell.

TüV, VIA, JWA certified? In over 40 years never had that happen on OEM or aftermarket rims? But if I bought uncertified I’m

TüV, VIA, JWA certified? In over 40 years never had that happen on OEM or aftermarket rims? But if I bought uncertified Chinese knockoffs I might have a different story to tell.

Yes, as requested when I bought them. I have the cert.
Manufacturer is going beyond what would be expected to find the cause.