After Market Wheels - WARNING!

[Sheffield10]

In all seriousness, is this why you have the legal protection thing for legal disputes on house insurance ?
I’m looking at NFU mutual for house insurance (sorry off topic) but when they ask me if I want legal added. Would that be for something like this ?

Guess you need to see (or ask them about) the policy details - and see if contract disputes / breach of contract for goods or services you purchase is covered.

 

[Roguealloyco]

16:28
This is a rather lengthy reply but I think it needs to be said as I see a number of readers are jumping to conclusions after reading Rogues reply without seeing any evidence. I totally agree that there are two sides to each story and this was my story which I'm sharing.

Firstly, there is so much interest in this topic and thanks for all those that read and contributed because in my opinion its an important topic. I am also quite glad that Rogue have had their input but the topic has been deflected considerably from what I posted, which is…

“I want to share with you my experience and it should be a warning to others considering purchasing after market wheels.

My suggestion to anyone looking to change the wheels...I would suggest finding the wheel that you like and then ask the company for the testing certificate.”

The reason that I posted this is because I see that people are putting these kind of wheels on expensive new vans without any thought about the certification of the wheels and that’s without even discussing safety. I know because I was also that person.

I want to stress that the post was not to have a dig or bad mouth Rogue or any dealer and the post clearly did not do that. The post was to share what I had experienced and lessons learned with buying these wheels. This is regardless of the country that you live. This is why we use forums for this exact purpose.

Before I continue and reply to some of the comments including Rogues lengthy post, this from Grigio Van Grigio sums up the situation…

From the replies,
Grigio Van Grigio said:

"Certification and load rating go hand in hand.
Anyone can say the wheels are suitable for your van but that only means they fit.
Unfortunately in this country it’s not illegal to sell stuff that’s not fit for purpose. It’s down to the muppets buying it to do their homework"

This is true and that was certainly me and that’s why I am sharing my experience. I was the muppet by not doing my homework. I've come to learn that In the UK a dealer seems to be able to sell you any wheels without any certification or any form of paperwork which I found hard to believe.

No where in the post did I say the wheels where unfit or useless and neither did I say that I was hoodwinked in to buying these. I chose the wheels from the website not thinking anything about certification or paperwork. In fact the wheels looked pretty cool and the ride was comfy. Issues only came about when I asked for paperwork.

I didn’t open the post to have a bun fight with Rogue but now they have made statements which are not entirely true, I feel that I am obliged to reply.

A few facts before I reply which seem to have been misled..

I do live in Switzerland
I did not move to Switzerland and import the van
I have a Swiss registered Ducato
TUV is not a requirement in Switzerland

I've cut and paste the comments (in bold) made by Rogue from their post and made my replies…

--- start of comments ---

The problem didn’t come when you told your insurance company. It was when you decided to move to Switzerland.
FALSE - I already lived in Switzerland. I did not move to Switzerland or import a van to Switzerland during the time of wheel purchase. I was upfront is specifying that the wheels where for my Swiss registered Ducato. It would have been appreciated if you already knew about certification requirements across Europe and shared this knowledge.

In Switzerland you require a TUV approved wheel, we don’t advertise these wheels as having that, only that they are load rated and tested to 1250kg
FALSE - TUV is not a requirement in Switzerland but the TUV and other EU/UK standards are accepted with appropriate documentation.

We have TUV approved wheels on our website, but you opted for the more economy option.
FALSE - I didn’t realise that there was an option or that I was buying economy ones? After asking for documentation, Rogue informed me that they don’t sell TUV approved wheels as its too expensive (May 23)

We’ve provided you with the origin of the wheels and even the address of the factory they were made in.
TRUE/FALSE - Initially I was told that they do not know the manufacturer as they deal with an agent. Eventually after much persistence, I was given a name of a company that makes wheels in China. Quanxi Industrial Park , Wuyi County .Zhejiang Province.China. I could not verify if the wheels were made there.

The wheels in question were for a Ducato, yet you keep posting the same scathing reviews on every forum
FALSE - this is the only website that I have posted and mentioned the name Rogue or after market wheels.

We do not require to have TUV approval in the uk, nor do we ask our customers if they plan on moving to Switzerland or Germany with every purchase
FALSE - I initially spoke with Rogue and discussed shipping directly to Switzerland or collect from UK. This is clarified in Rogues comment below about tax dumping.

We’ve offered you a full refund even though the wheels have been on for over a year, and you’ve been bad mouthing us since last may
FALSE - This has never been offered. I've asked for refund more than once since May 2023 but no offer.

We’ve provided the relevant load certificates
FALSE - No load certificates have ever been provided. A document has been provided (not a load certificate) which I will share further in the post.

We obtained information on the wheels/factory/factory workers.. something we’ve never been asked to do as it just isn’t relevant in the uk
TRUE/FALSE - I asked for the details of the wheels and wheel manufacturer, isn't this a normal request? Never asked for factory workers, seems a bizarre question.

The Swiss required TUV approval, the wheels don’t have it, he then threatens ‘social media reviews’… here we are
TRUE/FALSE - I asked for a document from the manufacturer stating that the wheels are suitable as you advertise. I don’t recall ever asking for a TUV certificate because I didn’t know what one was until Rogue infomed me. Rogue told me that I needed TUV approved wheels for Switzerland only after I had purchased the wheels. I did say that If I didn’t get refunded then I would share reviews. To this date I have not done so. I'm only replying to Rogues comments now.

We sent the wheels to Barnsley. We ship to Switzerland, had he have bought them and wanted them there, we wouldn’t have shipped as customs would’ve been very difficult with anti dumping taxes
TRUE - Rogue shipped to Barnsley as shipping to Switzerland was a logistical nightmare.

We sell tuv approved wheels, he opted for our own brand
FALSE - already covered above, the statement is irrelevant and a distraction.

Yes JWL tested, Japan light Alloy Wheel Standard.
FALSE - No certificate as ever been produced. If you have a JWL certificate then PLEASE share with me and even this forum. I asked about this certificate but was told Rogue or other suppliers do not have it.

---end of comments ---

NOTE!! After numerous calls and emails to Rogue during the course of a month, I finally receive this 'certificate' from Rogue

However, there seems to be quite an amount of important data missing from what you would expect on a testing certificate…

Manufacturer Name
Manufacturer Address
Signatures
Stamp
Kite marks or Standards marks
No code which link the wheel to document other that an out of focus image of the wheel.

..document will be added below…

Just to note. There is no marking on the actual wheels other that a stamp that says '1250'


When I again call and ask rogue about the validity of the document and fundamental missing data, I later receive an updated version with a signature of a Rogue director and timestamp - Alarm Bells!!

NOTE !! - Everything that I have commented on above can be backed up with email evidence.

For the posters that quickly read Rogues comments (without evidence) and jumped to a conclusion that the OP is bad mouthing them, please read the post again.


At the end of the day, it was a costly exercise. Rogue could have done the right thing, but instead I just received an email from Rogue saying….

-- start of email ---
without prejudice
Just to confirm we have passed this on to our solicitor who is now proceeding with a claim against you for defamation
Correspondence from us will now be via said solicitors
Regards

www.roguealloy.co.uk
Info@roguealloy.co.uk
‘GO ROGUE’

--- end of email ---

Good Luck Rogue with that!

To say we don’t sell TUV approved wheels is untrue

We’ve collaborated with OZ Spa in Italy to have our own exclusive colourways with them in 17” and 18” variants of their wheels

We’ve also sold the msw48 and msw40 since we opened, both of which are TUV approved

We’ve also sold supermetal wheels since opening, TUV approved and in your fitment, they are more expensive, but present on the website

We’ve had lots of phone calls regarding this matter and offered you a full refund with the return of the wheels on more than one occasion

Woke up this morning to an email stating ‘refund the full amount, there are a lot more forums out there’

 

[Roguealloyco]

To say we don’t sell TUV approved wheels is untrue

We’ve collaborated with OZ Spa in Italy to have our own exclusive colourways with them in 17” and 18” variants of their wheels

We’ve also sold the msw48 and msw40 since we opened, both of which are TUV approved

We’ve also sold supermetal wheels since opening, TUV approved and in your fitment, they are more expensive, but present on the website

We’ve had lots of phone calls regarding this matter and offered you a full refund with the return of the wheels on more than one occasion

Woke up this morning to an email stating ‘refund the full amount, there are a lot more forums out there’

‘I was upfront in stating the wheels were for a Swiss registered van’

All we got was ‘delivered to Barnsley, for a non uk van’…

Lots of people us non uk vans in the uk to go across Europe in as it’s easier driving on the other side of the road in one

 

[Corradobrit]

The plot thickens

 

[Roguealloyco]

To also say that you didn’t make the post to ‘have a dig at rogue alloy’ is wrong… you’ve commented this on numerous other threads

brands such as riviera, wolfrace, axe, stutgart, black rhino, fuel are all made in china

 

[NessL]

The plot thickens

I’m still perplexed why he’s posting on a Cali forum when he owns a Ducato. Is there not a similar Fiat forum or has he been ousted from those?

 

[andyinluton]

Woke up this morning to an email stating ‘refund the full amount, there are a lot more forums out there’

Sounds like blackmail to me…….

 

[Corradobrit]

Sounds like SS wants to stiff Rogue for return shipping too.... and get a full refund (which was apparently offered once returned)

 

[Corradobrit]

Sounds like this guy wants his cake, eat it and get seconds.

 

[lohr500]

@Roguealloyco

I think you have a strong case for taking legal action over the matter for defamation of your business reputation. But I suspect the case will not be helped by ongoing discussions on this and other forums.

In my opinion, frustrating though it may be, you shouldn't continue to debate the matter. Seek legal advice and then decide on your next steps.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

As mentioned previously, we won’t get to the bottom of this on a forum. What I do know is that the OP has not been entirely open about the details. Being in Switzerland is THE key issue here and he failed to mention that in the original posting. He has also made statements about Rogue and JB Wheels including “(the wheels) come from China and don’t have any valid paperwork to warrant the quality” and intimated that the wheels have no documentation or testing certificates. This is in direct contradiction to what JB Wheels say on their website (see below). If he really believes they are lying, he should be taking that up with Trading Standards.

The OP lives in Switzerland and has lived in Switzerland previously and even the lightest Googling will tell you how stringent the Swiss car checks (at MFK) are. This is something he should reasonably have known when purchasing replacement wheels. The onus was certainly more on him than a UK vendor shipping to a UK address.

The point had been made - think about safety and certification (even though regulation the UK is light). Unfortunately this is in danger of being lost in this bunfight.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Also worth mentioning, just because wheels are made in China, it does not mean they are inferior. After all, my iPhone is pretty well made! China has some of the best precision engineering firms in the World.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

He doesn’t have a California. He didn’t say he didn’t have a California in the OP.
It seems obvious why @SheffieldSteel is on this forum in my opinion.

 

[Californication69]

Sounds like this guy wants his cake, eat it and get seconds.

And you need to bend over too.

There’s two ways this can go.

Either SS sends the wheels and tyres back at his own expense, and then @Roguealloyco refund SS.

Or it goes to court, and the solicitors line their pockets with a nice fat packet after Xmas payday.

It’s not rocket science and for Rogue to say they are still willing to refund after SS has spouted off on a California forum, with his Duc, is embarrassing.
Like you said @Corradobrit

 

[Perfectos]

He doesn’t have a California. He didn’t say he didn’t have a California in the OP.
It seems obvious why @SheffieldSteel is on this forum in my opinion.

Agree :

His profile even states:

”T6 ocean 204” !

which everyone on this forum uses to identify which vehicle / variant they have ! Or Not as the case may be !

The subsequent posts in response the the Sellers comment seems like some back peddling and attempt to save face !
never a nice look

 

[CamperFam]

Personal view - slander shouldn't have a place on a forum. It's not a huge community (whether it be owners or suppliers), and behaviours of a few can absolutely tarnish the experience of the whole. It's really upsetting to see this happen, especially when reading RogueAlloy's site (a clear ethos of working to live rather than living to work, and their support of employees with families). We're not talking about a big corporate machine here - reputational damage hurts; even more when intentional and unwarranted.

Personally I dont think there's anymore to be gained from the thread. I think it's hightime it was locked and a note at the top clarifying the situation to avoid people taking the first post at face value as we've seen the narrative change considerably. It's clear that the OP has undertaken a campaign of disinformation against the supplier.

 

[Lee.Van.Cleef]

The 16” classic or GOAT as I believe the youngsters say!!
View attachment 117639

Had a set of these (off a Cali) on our old T5 conversion. I miss big fat kerb-friendly tyres to be honest.

 

[Lee.Van.Cleef]

I wasn't particularly looking to swap out my factory wheels this time (we swapped from steels to VW alloys on previous van) but this has been an informative thread regardless. It is heartening to see the standard of knowledge on this forum. I used to dip in and out of the T4/5/6 forum a few years ago and at the time there were a handful of owners who seemed to advocate putting Audi wheels on their T4s, which seemed like a very silly idea.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Also worth mentioning, just because wheels are made in China, it does not mean they are inferior. After all, my iPhone is pretty well made! China has some of the best precision engineering firms in the World.

Absolutely. A lot of naive and frankly ignorant people seem to think "it's from China" means a product is automatically inferior. I've never visited a Chinese factory but friends who have done tell me that they range from the basic to the extremely sophisticated.

Unfortunately some international buyers want a product that looks the part but they want it at a price that can only be achieved by down-speccing some aspects of inherent quality (eg switching materials, omitting sub components or tests). You get what you pay for.

 

[Californication69]

@Roguealloyco Any chance of a 10% discount if you’re a member of this club now?
You can ask @KevC (Is it KevC? I always get confused) to be in the VIP section and advertise your business.
(Too soon? )
I’ll be in the market for some bronze coloured wheels soon. And will be getting a quote from you.

 

[Carryon Cali Camping]

@Roguealloyco i personally hope you do actually take this bloke to the cleaners. You’re having to waste so much time trying to defend yourself to this chap, I hope you will also be invoicing him for your time . Personally I think this thread should be closed and deleted, if this does get nasty, it may well be advisable too…….
As for the OP, Needs kicking off the forum in my opinion.