Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[CaliKatt]

First time in rain last weekend (in Netherlands) and our bellow (03S) also leaked. It was only the front horizontal seam under front window that leaked. Is that what everyone has or is it also the sidewindows?

Going to buy a calicap now since i only want to replace when there is a 100% solid replacement. Was planning on buying one anyway.

 

[Corradobrit]

First time in rain last weekend (in Netherlands) and our bellow (03S) also leaked. It was only the front horizontal seam under front window that leaked. Is that what everyone has or is it also the sidewindows?

Going to buy a calicap now since i only want to replace when there is a 100% solid replacement. Was planning on buying one anyway.

View attachment 122389

Mine leaked from the front curved zipper (both sides simultaneously) a few mins after the rain saturated the fabric. Dropped it immediately so unsure if other seams affected.

 

[Hawthorn37]

Yes, but yours is the 02S and thats not as tensioned as the 03S/4S

The tensioning is different? By how much? Our canvas is pretty taught in the corners, I doubt you could get it more stretched. The fix was “simple” in concept but tricky to do in practice. It took me three attempts and in the last attempt the roof was elevated probably about 2/3 so I could work on it inside and outside. When it went in, I was a bit sceptical, but it’s stayed in place for around 18 months. So it’s worth persisting with imo., and preferable to glueing - again imo.

 

[P600BOO]

First time in rain last weekend (in Netherlands) and our bellow (03S) also leaked. It was only the front horizontal seam under front window that leaked. Is that what everyone has or is it also the sidewindows?

Going to buy a calicap now since i only want to replace when there is a 100% solid replacement. Was planning on buying one anyway.

View attachment 122389

Get a spray can of Aquatex or similar and spray both inside and outside stitched seams.

 

[Kayleigh]

Get a spray can of Aquatex or similar and spray both inside and outside stitched seams.

Is that the official VW solution now?

 

[lohr500]

Is that the official VW solution now?

Unless anyone has heard back officially from Adrian or their dealership, then I believe we are still waiting for a YES or NO from VW.

By the time they make a decision, the climate across most of Europe will have transitioned to arid desert and diesel will be something our descendents learn about in their history lessons.

 

[P600BOO]

Is that the official VW solution now?

No, it's my solution and so far it works. Not a drop of water has come through.

 

[lohr500]

After @P600BOO reported their success with Aquatex some time ago, I tried it as well.
So far no leaks on any of the treated areas and my roof hasn't fallen apart yet

It could be months before VW figure out what to do and in the meantime I want to use my Cali as intended.

Having seen two posts now where owners had bellows replaced, only to find they hadn't been attached correctly and a third where apparently a plastic part had been left off resulting in a clunking sound on raising the roof, I'm not sure I would want my bellows replacing, even if VW and their supplier can finally design one that doesn't leak!!!

If the Aqua Tex keeps working, I'll stick with it, even if it needs an annual top up. Preferable to letting some workshop apprentice lose on my roof.

 

[larrylamb]

It could be months before VW figure out what to do

They've had at least 12months now i reckon.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

Unless anyone has heard back officially from Adrian or their dealership, then I believe we are still waiting for a YES or NO from VW.

By the time they make a decision, the climate across most of Europe will have transitioned to arid desert and diesel will be something our descendents learn about in their history lessons.

I’ve had my weekly chat with Adrian this morning and he did say that there was no answer from VW regarding the use of Aquatex etc and he didn’t think we’re likely to get an answer in the short term?

 

[lohr500]

I’ve had my weekly chat with Adrian this morning and he did say that there was no answer from VW regarding the use of Aquatex etc and he didn’t think we’re likely to get an answer in the short term?

Thanks for the update.
It dosn''t surprise me and is pretty much what Adrian said to me last week.

In some ways, rightly or wrongly I think a delay strengthens the case for trying to find a DIY solution. And I hope that the Ombudsman or a Small Claims Court judge would see it the same way, if a warranty claim ever got rejected. My logic being :

• It is over five weeks since I reported a problem with my bellows and I was far from being the first to find 04S 9/11/23 bellows that leaked.
• Prior to the latest bellow design, others have had failures, so the problem is not new.
• VW have not been able to offer me any solution other than to reject my van (which in my case was not a desirable route to take), or fit another set of the 04S bellows (with no guarantee they will be any better).
• VW cannot say when a permanent solution will be made available.
• VW has so far been unwilling/unable to grant approval for an interim solution using a waterproofing agent.
• VW have not offered to supply a waterproof pop top cover as an interim solution.

I suggest therefore that any outsider reviewing the case would consider it reasonable for an owner to attempt a DIY fix using proven commercially available and well established waterproofing agents, designed for application to a wide range of fabrics and materials.

Hopefully it won't come down to a legal challenge as I am sure VW will eventually find a solution that satisfies all concerned.

 

[Glenderaterra]

I’ve had my weekly chat with Adrian this morning and he did say that there was no answer from VW regarding the use of Aquatex etc and he didn’t think we’re likely to get an answer in the short term?

I had this problem and the dealership (Preston) dealt with it by spraying the bellows with Febseal as a warranty repair. So far it has worked although I didn't use the van much over the winter. They are a VW dealership so they presumably did it with official sanction. Even if they didn't it would not be possible for VW to claim the work impacted the warranty as they represented it as a warranty repair. I was told the mechanics were following a written procedure and it may be that VW were trying different strategies at the same time or possibly just kicking the can down the road.
I think the fundamental problem is bad design and the Febseal will only work for a time before it needs renewed. However I have an extended warranty so there is plenty of time to see how this pans out. In the meantime I am enjoying the van.
From your point of view, it will help to be able to say that a dealer is doing the same thing. I assume Aquatex is a similar product to Febseal?

 

[DaveP]

Looking for other peoples' experiences with the new double lined pop top roof (the one that is grey outside / cream inside), and any potential solutions to the problem of leaking though the seams and fabric.

In the last week we've had complaints from customers on all four of our March 2023 Oceans that the new style pop tops have leaked, mostly though the seams in heavy rain or constant drizzle. Each of them has the new double lined lined pop top roof (grey outside / cream inside). It's not a problem that we had with our "old style" 2022 vehicles (the ones with the single grey pop top fabric) - I think it might be an issue with the new design.

I've read on the forums that putting the pop tops through a few wet / dry cycles will sort the issue as the fibres tighten up - has anyone experienced this with the new style pop top?

If not, has anyone tried something like a Nikwax application to improve waterproofness?

My 2022 bellows were replaced August 23 due to it coming away from the roof. New bellows seem to be performing fine - after various rainfall events! Would normally consider Nikwaxing every couple of years as a precaution.

 

[tjeffery1]

I was down in Poole (Breeze) this morning having our seat covers installed (they arrived a bit late compared to van delivery). I had a brief chat with Tom about the bellows issue and I mentioned I already procured my own pop top cover (from Pucer). He said that VW would refund me and to send him the invoice.

Just to let you guys know…if you have a leaking pop top then VW should either supply you with a pop top or if you’ve already bought one, refund you for that.

Since reporting to Breeze they have forwarded on to head office, and Adrian called me a few weeks ago.

For now I am happy to keep the van and put up the screen when conditions ask for it (which would have been done anyway to ensure fabric is dry to enable quick morning departure if needed). If and when a real fix comes for the bellows, I’ll bring it in for replacement.

 

[Fish111111111.]

First time in rain last weekend (in Netherlands) and our bellow (03S) also leaked. It was only the front horizontal seam under front window that leaked. Is that what everyone has or is it also the sidewindows?

Going to buy a calicap now since i only want to replace when there is a 100% solid replacement. Was planning on buying one anyway.

View attachment 122389

Both of mine have leaked from both side seams and the front, a lot seems to be on wind direction , that side or front with the prevailing wind gets soaked first and then leaks through the seam. I had a converstion with Adrian At VW HQ this week and they beleive that the present 04S is ok but they are having occasional Quality control issue's hence some have leaked , like mine post replacement.Just make sure you raise the fault with VW.

 

[markbrown83]

Our returned van just got listed.

 

[Off and running]

I was down in Poole (Breeze) this morning having our seat covers installed (they arrived a bit late compared to van delivery). I had a brief chat with Tom about the bellows issue and I mentioned I already procured my own pop top cover (from Pucer). He said that VW would refund me and to send him the invoice.

Just to let you guys know…if you have a leaking pop top then VW should either supply you with a pop top or if you’ve already bought one, refund you for that.

Since reporting to Breeze they have forwarded on to head office, and Adrian called me a few weeks ago.

For now I am happy to keep the van and put up the screen when conditions ask for it (which would have been done anyway to ensure fabric is dry to enable quick morning departure if needed). If and when a real fix comes for the bellows, I’ll bring it in for replacement.

Good timing as Im collecting our new Cali from Breeze on Monday, so might try and have a chat to Tom just incase ours leak (hopefully not) but thanks for the heads up.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Good timing as Im collecting our new Cali from Breeze on Monday, so might try and have a chat to Tom just incase ours leak (hopefully not) but thanks for the heads up.

Is Breeze reimbursing new customers if they buy some sort of a cover on collecting van for peace of mind or just if individual vans have a leaky bellows issue?

 

[Corradobrit]

Is Breeze reimbursing new customers if they buy some sort of a cover on collecting van for peace of mind or just if individual vans have a leaky bellows issue?

I think every new owner needs to stress their bellows. I'd definitely want to know if I was one of the lucky 04S owners with non leaking seams. Such a lottery.

 

[Jeckmacdonald]

I have been speaking with him over the last few weeks after I reported to my dealer following the test I undertook on 14.03.24. As previously mentioned mine are 04S dates 15.11.23 so should have been fit for purpose, which they are absolutely not.
I also have to take the van in to confirm that they are leaking, but here is the kicker. If confirmed that they leak (they will!) the dealer would fit new bellows if they have them in stock or order and fit within 28 days. Now forgive me but I do not have sufficient faith that 04S at this time that they are the definitive solution. I also do not want to subject the van to multiple fittings of new bellows as that increases the possibility of damage when in with the dealer.
Until there is more definitive confidence in what is being fitted is water tight I will be holding off taking that step. I genuinely fear that the numbers of 04S leakers will increase as more owners start to utilise their new vans as we move through the season (I hope I am wrong). So I will play the waiting game I think at this time.

Hello, just an update on my bellow issue. We have just had set number 4 put on the van. (So 5 in total since manufacture in April 2023) this is the second set of the new new bellows that apparently fix the problem. We had some rain last night, yep they leak. Around seams of the front half moon and further towards the back on both sides. Sufficient to soak my drivers side seat and onto the handbreak and into a bag a keep between the seats. Pretty depressed about the whole thing to be honest

 

[lohr500]

Hello, just an update on my bellow issue. We have just had set number 4 put on the van. (So 5 in total since manufacture in April 2023) this is the second set of the new new bellows that apparently fix the problem. We had some rain last night, yep they leak. Around seams of the front half moon and further towards the back on both sides. Sufficient to soak my drivers side seat and onto the handbreak and into a bag a keep between the seats. Pretty depressed about the whole thing to be honest

I'm really sorry to hear your news.

VW must surely be at the point where they put a hold on replacing any more bellows until they change the design or sort out the manufacturing issues.

At the very least they should be offering you a significant goodwill gesture to recognise the amount of your time they have wasted. And I would be pushing them to supply you with a free topper that you can use in bad weather until they are confident they have a solution.

Finally I would be insisting they give you approval to use Fabsil or Aqua Tex as an interim solution, again until they can fix the design/manufacture.

 

[markbrown83]

I'm really sorry to hear your news.

VW must surely be at the point where they put a hold on replacing any more bellows until they change the design or sort out the manufacturing issues.

At the very least they should be offering you a significant goodwill gesture to recognise the amount of your time they have wasted. And I would be pushing them to supply you with a free topper that you can use in bad weather until they are confident they have a solution.

Finally I would be insisting they give you approval to use Fabsil or Aqua Tex as an interim solution, again until they can fix the design/manufacture.

IF they fix it. Adrian has already said they are putting it down to a QC issue.

I really don’t think you’ll be getting an 05S version.

 

[Kev56]

Over 3.5k posts now on this. It is beyond a joke now. How do we stand legally and should a case be made? I'm no legal expert but the silence from VW is deafening.

 

[lohr500]

And new reports of leaking bellows on another related thread as well :

Bellow leaking??

Sorry for asking a silly question. I'm now sorting out spec for my perfect Cali and I've seen a few posts on leaking bellows/canvas? Which Ocean model does this seem to relate to and is there any specific year?? I only ask as I'm looking at T6.1 around 70 Reg or 21 Reg. I.e all have LED...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Please don't forget to cast your vote in the 04S Bellows poll, or to update your vote if your circumstances have changed.

The information gathered will be useful to anyone who is in discussion with their dealer or Adrian at VW.

04S Bellow review poll.

Unfortunately I can't edit the poll title. For clarity I am discussing 04S bellows manufactured after 9th November 2023. On behalf of all of those affected, I'm wanting to build a picture on the performance of the latest 04S bellows fitted after 9th November 2023, based on members' real life...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Can you not get the site administrators to close the other threads down and lead them to this one?