Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Gliderbee California 6.1]

Solvents may weaken the adhesive. Those areas are under constant tension.
Glad to hear you are happy with your decision. Hope it works out for you in the long run. Adrian/VW have confirmed there is a continuing issue with the bellows (04S) and I for one do not want to risk getting a definitive fix under warranty, by using an unauthorized product.

As for the

Not clear which level of VW is saying this. Could be the importer but its not stating categorically that the recommendation and thumbs up is coming from VW Nutzfahrzeug in Germany (which is what really counts).
If you are happy to chemically treat every year thats great but most owners will want the bellows to work to a certain standard with that complication and feel confident their bellows will be supported in case of a warranty claim eg if the bellows becomes detached from the poptop runners. VW could say by applying the sealant you have weakened the bond enough to cause the detachment. Can't give VW any cause to refuse a claim, which they will try to do.

I don't think the whole tent must be treated, but only the seams: it's clear from the pictures (at least for my Van) that the water comes through the seams of the windows, and these are stitched, not glued (or are they both stitched and glued ?), so I don't see how the product would weaken the bond.

But again: you don't want an argument about warranty or not for this, and neither do I; that's why I had it done by the dealer and on his call, not mine,so he's responsable. I keep all records of the conversation with him.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

Just my opinion, but I doubt treating the seams only will effective. I suspect that unless you can remove the tendency of the bellows fabric to hold water (which was not a problem with the previous fabric) there will always be a ‘head’ of water that will find a way through the seams.

 

[P600BOO]

Just my opinion, but I doubt treating the seams only will effective. I suspect that unless you can remove the tendency of the bellows fabric to hold water (which was not a problem with the previous fabric) there will always be a ‘head’ of water that will find a way through the seams.

Sorry but totally disagree.
I have treated all my stitched seams and zips both inside and out and that do not let a drop of water through.
On all the pictures that people have posted, it is the seams that have leaked not the fabric.
People who have use Aquatex or similar have reported that it has stopped the water Ingress.

 

[lohr500]

In my case too, it was definitely an issue with the stitching and seams. The rain just runs off the bellows fabric and the fabric doesn't appear to become waterlogged.

My theory is that water is finding its way through the stitching holes, either due to the wrong thread type being used (not expanding when wet), or because the stitched areas have not been treated with a waterproofing agent after manufacture. I could be wrong. At the end of the day it is for VW and their supplier to figure it out.

Based on the feedback from @P600BOO , I also tried Aqua Tex and it has solved nearly all the problems. All the areas I treated have since been totally waterproof and not the slightest drop of water has found its way through.

The only area that still leaks is along the bottom horizontal stitching where the fabric of the bellows is attached to the rubber material which fastens onto the fixed roof. This was the one piece of stitching that I didn't treat. I've only seen a couple of drops getting through in one place so I'm not too worried. My theory on this is that because the stitching in this area goes through a rubber type material, the rubber is closing up the holes around the threads so water can't get through.

 

[brianpilk]

Just collected our MY (March) 23 Ocean from dealership after having 04S A fitted after reporting leakage in July, (decided to go for it, in the hope we can use the top berth this year), attach couple of pics showing: Tag & also Packaging Label, which clearly shows Manufactured in Romania.

 

[Corradobrit]

Just collected our MY (March) 23 Ocean from dealership after having 04S A fitted after reporting leakage in July, (decided to go for it, in the hope we can use the top berth this year), attach couple of pics showing: Tag & also Packaging Label, which clearly shows Manufactured in Romania.

View attachment 122112

View attachment 122113

At least that answers the question of where they are making these sieves.

 

[lohr500]

Just collected our MY (March) 23 Ocean from dealership after having 04S A fitted after reporting leakage in July, (decided to go for it, in the hope we can use the top berth this year), attach couple of pics showing: Tag & also Packaging Label, which clearly shows Manufactured in Romania.

Out of interest, did the dealership say if they had tested the new bellows before handing the vehicle back to you?

 

[brianpilk]

Out of interest, did the dealership say if they had tested the new bellows before handing the vehicle back to you?

I asked the question to which they confirmed it had been tested but didn't provide details of how they test.
I put the roof up a 15:00 as it started to rain, still raining now, just checked & currently bone dry. It is only light rain but continuous, it looks as though it will be raining here for most of the night so plan to keep an eye on it. Will inform as things develop, good or bad.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Well, we were scheduled for an 04S replacement this week but cancelled it following the issues being raised here about the latest version.

Our third set of 03S bellows leaked and we were put down for the 04S swap. However, after several times used last year the leaks appear to have stopped.

This year we have used the bellows in persistent rain, wind, day after day of rain and they've been 100 percent waterproof.

Seems like it would be wrong to swap for something else now so we've closed the warranty case.

This does suggest it's some kind of manufacturing artifact because I was one of the camp that believed every 03S would leak given the right circumstances. Clearly not.

I've heard wrong needles, wrong thread, hot needles etc.

But my view has changed that this is a manufacturing issue as opposed to a design issue. Although changing the design (like adding seam sealers) may ultimately provide the solution for a manufacturing issue.

For now, it's happy camping come rain or sunshine!!!

 

[Kayleigh]

Not surprising a fresh chemically treated seam is water tight. Question still remains what are the long term implications ie will the stretchy nature of the fabric compromise the sealant, and most importantly, will VW honour any future warranty claim?

Or… will the sealant compromise the stretchy nature of the fabric??

It appears many of these continental dealers are quick to do remedial work making it good enough for now, without considering future implications. The paint over rusty scissor components is a good example.

Haha I remember that one! Also one of the many faults of my rejected 2023 T6.1 Ocean!

 

[McGons]

Well, we were scheduled for an 04S replacement this week but cancelled it following the issues being raised here about the latest version.

Our third set of 03S bellows leaked and we were put down for the 04S swap. However, after several times used last year the leaks appear to have stopped.

This year we have used the bellows in persistent rain, wind, day after day of rain and they've been 100 percent waterproof.

Seems like it would be wrong to swap for something else now so we've closed the warranty case.

This does suggest it's some kind of manufacturing artifact because I was one of the camp that believed every 03S would leak given the right circumstances. Clearly not.

I've heard wrong needles, wrong thread, hot needles etc.

But my view has changed that this is a manufacturing issue as opposed to a design issue. Although changing the design (like adding seam sealers) may ultimately provide the solution for a manufacturing issue.

For now, it's happy camping come rain or sunshine!!!

Makes me wonder if other leaking bellows would have eventually stopped. Ours is in for replacement currently after leaking twice.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Makes me wonder if other leaking bellows would have eventually stopped. Ours is in for replacement currently after leaking twice.

I doubt the ones which create pooling water in the frame will ever work. Certainly our original bellows were never going to be anything but a sieve. I do think it's possible that small leaks might self-seal and as I said earlier, my experience suggests that not every bellows will leak, given the "right" rain.

 

[Czmitche]

I spoke to VW Birmingham today who sell alot of Californias. They said they had only replaced the bellows on one vehicle, they replaced it for a second time on the same vehicle.
This doesn't make it seem that the problem is as wide spread as this thread seems to suggest. I hope not, our new Cali has just been given conformed build week 18, and I'm not looking forward to the first wet and windy day.

We bought our Ocean from Breeze at the same time as two friends - all three delivered in March and all three leak. Breeze have been honest with us and have admitted that about 25% of the 70 vans delivered recently have the same issue. I have also been talking to Darren at Puker Screens as a lot of people are coming to him looking for a temporary solution - at least until a warranty repair can be done. He has sold 70 6.1 bellows covers in the last few months (since the 04S bellows have been available).It is a widespread problem.

 

[Czmitche]

Adrian is due to call me on Wednesday 17th April.

I'll be asking him if the Aqua Tex / Fabsil option has moved forward since our discussion last week.

With more and more reports of failed 04S bellows being reported on the forum, VW need to come up with an interim fix soon, until they can find a more permanent solution.

Some dealers have been reimbursing people who have gone out and bought an add on cover for their pop top. This is the pragmatic route forwards until VW come out with a final solution. When i spoke to Adrian on Monday he told me that VW have not yet decided if this is a quality issue (some vans) or a design issue (all vans). The earliest appointment i can get for the dealer warranty check is late May so i told Adrian that I expect VW to purchase the extra cover as it is the only way i can use my pop top in rain. Until the warranty check is done i am not going to apply waterproofing but once VW confirm the leak i will probably do this as well.

 

[Hawthorn37]

Some dealers have been reimbursing people who have gone out and bought an add on cover for their pop top. This is the pragmatic route forwards until VW come out with a final solution. When i spoke to Adrian on Monday he told me that VW have not yet decided if this is a quality issue (some vans) or a design issue (all vans). The earliest appointment i can get for the dealer warranty check is late May so i told Adrian that I expect VW to purchase the extra cover as it is the only way i can use my pop top in rain. Until the warranty check is done i am not going to apply waterproofing but once VW confirm the leak i will probably do this as well.

Understandable, however I’d doubt VW could have a legitimate problem with someone taking steps to limit the impact of a fault. However a contrary view might be to keep it in its virgin state so VW cannot claim the problem is fixed by time. We thankfully aren’t in this group having problems (6.1 but single skin), however I’d find it a real bind to not use the van as intended, or to spend £000’s on a secondary cover.

 

[Gliderbee California 6.1]

Well, two days and nights passed with quite heavy rain and strong winds (about 30-40mph with stronger gusts). The van was pointed to the West on an open driveway.

I checked this morning and found no leaks, so to me, everything looks fine !

Since it is wet now anyway, I'll leave it open on the driveway and check regulary (more rain is predicted, with lesser winds) and I'll keep you posted.

Stefan.

Well, we again had some bad weather over here with quite strong wind, rain and even some hail: no leaks anymore.

I can understand that for some, as a matter of principle, the "solution" of applying Aquatex or the Berger stuff that was used on mine, does not give satisfaction, but for me - and for now - I'm happy .

Mind you, I'll keep following it up, and if and when VW would decide to replace the tent with a new version, I will not decline !

 

[finchy168]

Our first trip away since having our bellows replaced, it's came away in the corner, does this pop back in if I lower it, or is it another trip to the dealers?

 

[Corradobrit]

Our first trip away since having our bellows replaced, it's came away in the corner, does this pop back in if I lower it, or is it another trip to the dealers?

View attachment 122248

Trip back to the dealer. I believe there should be adhesive securing the seal in the channel. Looks like it was omitted. It will only come away again due to the tension in the bellows fabric.

 

[myvanrodney]

Our first trip away since having our bellows replaced, it's came away in the corner, does this pop back in if I lower it, or is it another trip to the dealers?

View attachment 122248

who replaced them ?

 

[finchy168]

Listers Droitwich

 

[Betsycalifornia]

interesting. Same dealer, same problem. I popped mine back in a few times whilst away. Booking it in tomorrow for the correct fix.

 

[Hawthorn37]

It’s not a big deal in my experience. I’ve posted the fix I did which was simple, no glue needed. Put the roof 2/3 up, dilute soapy water, and a plastic bike tyre lever, on a warm day so that the rubber is flexible. Ours came out around 2 years ago, and we got it back in place and it’s not come out again.

 

[Corradobrit]

It’s not a big deal in my experience. I’ve posted the fix I did which was simple, no glue needed. Put the roof 2/3 up, dilute soapy water, and a plastic bike tyre lever, on a warm day so that the rubber is flexible. Ours came out around 2 years ago, and we got it back in place and it’s not come out again.

Yes, but yours is the 02S and thats not as tensioned as the 03S/4S

 

[finchy168]

I did manage to pop it back in before we moved on, but when I reopened the roof it came off again.
I've contacted Listers and await a date to get it rectified.

 

[California Dreamer]

Listers fixed ours a while ago (old style bellows) it’s been fine ever since. I could reattach it back in myself before that but it never lasted.


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