Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[HIGGINS]

Hello Higgins
Serious question not point scoring
Are you sure it won’t leave marks or residue or discolour etc

hi
I have never had any problems with discolouring or staining, as long as you put it on evenly. Spray on, then use a brush or sponge to spread it evenly and wipe off any excess and let dry. Making sure you cover every part of the bellow,

Job done!

A bellow fit for purpose! )

 

[P600BOO]

hi
I have never had any problems with discolouring or staining, as long as you put it on evenly. Spray on, then use a brush or sponge to spread it evenly and wipe off any excess and let dry. Making sure you cover every part of the bellow,

Job done!

A bellow fit for purpose! )

I used AquaTex which is marketed by Issabella for reproofing their awnings.
I sprayed all the stitched areas / seams / zips both outside and inside. Once dry you cannot see any staining / discolouration what so ever.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

hi
I have never had any problems with discolouring or staining, as long as you put it on evenly. Spray on, then use a brush or sponge to spread it evenly and wipe off any excess and let dry. Making sure you cover every part of the bellow,

Job done!

A bellow fit for purpose! )

Until one random day in the future when water comes in and causes damage and VW push back on your warranty claim (if you’re even still in your warranty period by then).

With the experience I’ve had over the last 8 months I wouldn’t do anything that gave them the slightest opportunity to avoid a warranty claim; I assure you they’ll take it. What you’re doing by treating them without approval is essentially making the problem of their incompetence your own.

I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t just test theirs, report a leak and THEN treat them once the dealer has approved. You’re no worse off by doing so and you’re protecting your own arse, you’re also much closer to the front of the queue if a new version does come. It could also be very important when you come to sell it as any reasonably Cali-educated buyer is going to ask about it.

I expect it’s VW’s dream that everyone will treat their own bellows without approval.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Until one random day in the future when water comes in and causes damage and VW push back on your warranty claim (if you’re even still in your warranty period by then).

With the experience I’ve had over the last 8 months I wouldn’t do anything that gave them the slightest opportunity to avoid a warranty claim; I assure you they’ll take it. What you’re doing by treating them without approval is essentially making the problem of their incompetence your own.

I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t just test theirs, report a leak and THEN treat them once the dealer has approved. You’re no worse off by doing so and you’re protecting your own arse, you’re also much closer to the front of the queue if a new version does come. That could also be very important when you come to sell it as any reasonably Cali-educated buyer is going to ask about it.

I am sure it’s VW’s dream that everyone will treat their own bellows without approval.

This is one of those things where we all make our own choices. I don’t really care what anybody else puts on their bellows. It’s their van and they can do what they like. They have their own reasons and I have my own reasons too. What I don’t like is other people making out that because you don’t do what they would do you must somehow be stupid, or overreacting etc.

 

[HIGGINS]

Until one random day in the future when water comes in and causes damage and VW push back on your warranty claim (if you’re even still in your warranty period by then).

With the experience I’ve had over the last 8 months I wouldn’t do anything that gave them the slightest opportunity to avoid a warranty claim; I assure you they’ll take it. What you’re doing by treating them without approval is essentially making the problem of their incompetence your own.

I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t just test theirs, report a leak and THEN treat them once the dealer has approved. You’re no worse off by doing so and you’re protecting your own arse, you’re also much closer to the front of the queue if a new version does come. It could also be very important when you come to sell it as any reasonably Cali-educated buyer is going to ask about it.

I expect it’s VW’s dream that everyone will treat their own bellows without approval.

Yep!
That’s an option?
Make your choice!

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I think Jimmy does make a valid point, and it's helpful for those reading this forum who may be wanting to spray their bellows but unaware of any potential warranty issue whether valid or not.

I do also agree that it's your Cali and you can do whatever you want if it suits your needs best. And if the worst happens and a warranty claim is declined (albeit unlikely) as long as you take the view 'I knew the risks of doing so, and I'm happy to pay the cost of replacements myself without complaint' then that is fine also. I'm trading mine in a few months and the dealer almost certainly won't be testing the bellows during a quick handover but I won't even risk that.

 

[ArunAlec]

Call me paranoid, but if you do decide to apply any treatment to the canvas I wouldn’t advertise the fact on a public forum, just in case! ️

 

[HIGGINS]

Call me paranoid, but if you do decide to apply any treatment to the canvas I wouldn’t advertise the fact on a public forum, just in case! ️

In case what?
Vw start up an investigation team to find out who you are on the forum and what vehicle you have!
Don’t be silly)))

 

[Jimmylondon07]

In case what?
Vw start up an investigation team to find out who you are on the forum and what vehicle you have!
Don’t be silly)))

Sales and service managers from VW dealerships are following this thread, as are people from the VW EO. If your surname is Higgins and you recently bought a new one I don’t think you’d need to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who you are

 

[HIGGINS]

Understood/-)
Lucky I don’t use any of my birth names then)
But good point!

 

[P600BOO]

Sales and service managers from VW dealerships are following this thread, as are people from the VW EO. If your surname is Higgins and you recently bought a new one I don’t think you’d need to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who you are

Leaking bellows is well documented and VW have agreed that they can / do leak and have tackled the problem by having revised bellows produced and fitted to quite a few vans.
I want to use my van as it has been designed to use and not have to worry about putting the poptop up and using it.
I decided to apply a waterproofing agent to give me peace of mind.
If for what ever reason my bellows need replacing under warranty and it was refused by VW, then I'm sure I would win my case in a small claims court. VW by already replacing some under warranty and others waiting for replacement have admitted that their bellows can leak.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Does anyone think that all this talk of 2023/24 Californias having leaking pop tops is going to affect their residuals? I wonder if anybody is worried that their investment is being devalued by this thread…? It’s certainly crossed my mind.

 

[lohr500]

More leaks on the driver's side vertical seam overnight after testing in light rain and wind, with the wind blowing onto the driver's side of the front bellows at approximately 45 deg.

Hardly any leaks this time on the passenger side vertical seam . Leads me to conclude that wind direction does play a part. Last night the wind was blowing water towards the open edge of the external seam on the driver's side, but away from it on the passenger side (if this makes sense).

If the rain and/or wind had been stronger then I suspect the leakage would have been worse.

Has anyone actually received written approval from VW to use a sealer?

This seems to me like an obvious fix to try. Either on a permanent basis (perhaps with an annual recoating) or at least to buy time until a better picture emerges on the options for bellows replacement.

I could see that they might want evidence of leakage before approving. And that approval would be on a case by case basis to mitigate the risk of all owners applying sealant regardless, then claiming warranty at a later stage due to problems with the sealant application. But based on evidence provided, if VW accept that a replacement is needed, then what do they have to lose? Surely they will be scrapping the replaced bellows anyway?

 

[markbrown83]

Does anyone think that all this talk of 2023/24 Californias having leaking pop tops is going to affect their residuals? I wonder if anybody is worried that their investment is being devalued by this thread…? It’s certainly crossed my mind.

One reason we bought a California in the first place. High residual.

Another reason we rejected the vehicle. We thought the residual could be effected.

I don’t think it’ll be due to the thread. Dealers will certainly be in the know and may price in the fact it may be harder to shift 2023/24 vans due to leaking poptops.

One of the many risks we weren’t willing to take.

 

[ArunAlec]

Does anyone think that all this talk of 2023/24 Californias having leaking pop tops is going to affect their residuals? I wonder if anybody is worried that their investment is being devalued by this thread…? It’s certainly crossed my mind.

If the curse of the corroding roof didn’t slash values (and it didn’t ) I doubt that the leaking canvas will have much impact.

 

[P600BOO]

Does anyone think that all this talk of 2023/24 Californias having leaking pop tops is going to affect their residuals? I wonder if anybody is worried that their investment is being devalued by this thread…? It’s certainly crossed my mind.

I can't see why because it's not as if every California produced in those years have faulty bellows.
The new 2 sided fabric if it is laminated with a waterproof breathable membrane and people are saying it is. ( mine looks like it's laminated) can only leak in the areas of stitching. Maybe the manufacturer used the wrong thread for a batch and that's why it has been reported that seams leak on some bellows and not others.
As said I have waterproofed my seams and they have been well tested in driving rain.
If VW do monitor this forum and would like to test my bellows to see if what I have done, as good as cures the problem, please send me a DM.

 

[P600BOO]

One reason we bought a California in the first place. High residual.

Another reason we rejected the vehicle. We thought the residual could be effected.

I don’t think it’ll be due to the thread. Dealers will certainly be in the know and may price in the fact it may be harder to shift 2023/24 vans due to leaking poptops.

One of the many risks we weren’t willing to take.

Mark
You said you bought yours knowing that it had been reported that bellows were leaking.
You took that risk, at the time you were not considering residuals.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Leaking bellows is well documented and VW have agreed that they can / do leak and have tackled the problem by having revised bellows produced and fitted to quite a few vans.
I want to use my van as it has been designed to use and not have to worry about putting the poptop up and using it.
I decided to apply a waterproofing agent to give me peace of mind.
If for what ever reason my bellows need replacing under warranty and it was refused by VW, then I'm sure I would win my case in a small claims court. VW by already replacing some under warranty and others waiting for replacement have admitted that their bellows can leak.

That you’re even talking about a small claims court is why I wouldn’t do it. But as others have said, each to their own.

 

[markbrown83]

Mark
You said you bought yours knowing that it had been reported that bellows were leaking.
You took that risk, at the time you were not considering residuals.

You really need to read the thread again.

I placed the original order knowing the bellows had an issue. I got the dealer to email vw to see if our would have the faulty bellows and they came back and said no.

I then felt a little better. If they had come back and said it can’t be guaranteed I would have cancelled my order but believed what VW told me.

So yeah, I was considering the residuals.

One of the main reasons we considered a California before even placing the order was the residual value.

 

[lohr500]

I used AquaTex which is marketed by Issabella for reproofing their awnings.
I sprayed all the stitched areas / seams / zips both outside and inside. Once dry you cannot see any staining / discolouration what so ever.

View attachment 120996

Hello @P600BOO

Thanks for your input and helpful replies.

Was Aqua Tex the only proofer you used and how many cans did you need?
And were most of your leaks coming through the two vertical fabric seams located a little way back from the vertical zips on the front panel?

I'm asking VW for approval to use a waterproofing sealer on my bellows and have been considering both Fabsil and Aqua Tex.

Your results with Aqua Tex sound very promising, particularly if it has solved the leaks associated with the vertical seams. The main leaks so far on my Jan 04SA bellows are from those vertical seams.

 

[stationmaster]

I have been reading recent posts on this thread...decided to take a breath and consider things in the round.

The California is a truly great vehicle, has many outstanding features, having evolved over time it has become a true icon. It seems we all love our vans

Occasionally the odd issue comes up, and one recently has:

VW changed the roof design, and whilst the new design was in many ways a step forward, for some it proved to have some leaking from the seams. It appears that VW is taking this seriously and is getting it sorted, they have already made two revisions to the design available, both gave real improvement. Some have reported that their van is fine and have experienced no issue of any kind.

Residuals will not be impacted. The roof has been/is being sorted. And for many, their use case means that they will never even experience a leak.

Also, 99% of the van is still pretty much perfect - which is why we purchased it of course!

The main thing i have learned/been reminded of?

Choose your dealership with care...as with all things - customer care post purchase is everything,

Thank you to all! This forum is a brilliant place to get information/support for California owners

 

[P600BOO]

Hello @P600BOO

Thanks for your input and helpful replies.

Was Aqua Tex the only proofer you used and how many cans did you need?
And were most of your leaks coming through the two vertical fabric seams located a little way back from the vertical zips on the front panel?

I'm asking VW for approval to use a waterproofing sealer on my bellows and have been considering both Fabsil and Aqua Tex.

Your results with Aqua Tex sound very promising, particularly if it has solved the leaks associated with the vertical seams. The main leaks so far on my Jan 04SA bellows are from those vertical seams.

Hi,
The bellows on my April 2023 Ocean have not leaked since I owned the van ( 3 Months) but in that time have been well tested.
The 1st I new about reported problems with the bellows was when I joined this forum. I bought my van to be able to use it in all weather's. To give me peace of mind I decided to proof all the seams that people had reported were leaking.
I bought 1 can of Isabella Aqua Tex and sprayed all stitched seams and zips outside and inside at fairly close range, to try and stop the spray going everywhere.
Aqua Tex has left so stains / marks on the seams or the fabric. I decided not to spray all the fabric as mine is the 2 sided fabric, grey outside cream inside.
They have now been tested a few time in atrocious conditions and pleased to say no leaks.

 

[stationmaster]

Hi,
The bellows on my April 2023 Ocean have not leaked since I owned the van ( 3 Months) but in that time have been well tested.
The 1st I new about reported problems with the bellows was when I joined this forum. I bought my van to be able to use it in all weather's. To give me peace of mind I decided to proof all the seams that people had reported were leaking.
I bought 1 can of Isabella Aqua Tex and sprayed all stitched seams and zips outside and inside at fairly close range, to try and stop the spray going everywhere.
Aqua Tex has left so stains / marks on the seams or the fabric. I decided not to spray all the fabric as mine is the 2 sided fabric, grey outside cream inside.
They have now been tested a few time in atrocious conditions and pleased to say no leaks.

Handy information...enables people to make informed choices as to how to look after their vans Your van looks great btw, love the grey/silver two tone.

 

[stationmaster]

This is one of those things where we all make our own choices. I don’t really care what anybody else puts on their bellows. It’s their van and they can do what they like. They have their own reasons and I have my own reasons too. What I don’t like is other people making out that because you don’t do what they would do you must somehow be stupid, or overreacting etc.

Nothing to do with this thread...you are selling some wheels, two wheels have worn cross climate tyres - you are probably well placed to tell me how many miles you can reasonably expect from these tyres fitted to a California?

 

[HIGGINS]

Nothing to do with this thread...you are selling some wheels, two wheels have worn cross climate tyres - you are probably well placed to tell me how many miles you can reasonably expect from these tyres fitted to a California?

Nothing to do with this thread!
But can you tell me if Tesco’s are doing any discounts on whiskey?????
:-000