Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[From tent to van]

Have you cast a vote in the 04S poll?

04S Bellow review poll.

Unfortunately I can't edit the poll title. For clarity I am discussing 04S bellows manufactured after 9th November 2023. On behalf of all of those affected, I'm wanting to build a picture on the performance of the latest 04S bellows fitted after 9th November 2023, based on members' real life...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Awful experience. I'm starting to think if its worth going down the suck and see bellows replacement avenue with all the risks that could entail. I will give it 3-4 months for latest 04S to be real world stress tested and if there is a high % of failures, will go for the Aquatex fix.

Yes I did vote. I have let Adrian know and supplied a number of photos and videos of the leaks from the bellows and the wet headlining. Now it’s starting to dry out the headlining is stained.

I will be asking for a bellows wrap from VW (no point in getting them replaced again yet) and will give them a few months to also find a proper fix before I take the next step. Either waterproofing myself or giving up on the van.

 

[Czmitche]

Hi everybody - I picked up our new Ocean on the 11th March. A skiing holiday and a broken arm have delayed testing of the pop up until this evening. Light rain showers and a light breeze resulted in drips all along the horizontal zip at the front, pools of water on the roof and a wet passenger seat. I have cast my vote and will be notifying dealer/executive in the morning. I have owned a Westfalia and a t6 ocean previously and never had anything like this even in heavy rain.

 

[Czmitche]

Pictures of the leak I just posted about

 

[GreenMissile]

Pictures of the leak I just posted about

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Sorry to see you experiencing this, know only too well how gut churning this is. Interesting to see that your is leaking exactly as ours did along the horizontal seam. Our vertical seams has no visible signs of ingress but they deposited a hell of of lot water when I took the roof town, luckily I had our waterproof seat covers on and towels at the ready!

 

[Justinitus1972]

I’ve got my Cali booked in for bellows test and replacement at the end of the month, plus replacing a stained kitchen blind from the resulting deluge.

Reported to dealer mid March, VW Customer Services and also Exec Office. Exec office told the dealer that they only had one other case on record of 04S leaking and that was just a few drips.

Since I reported it a few weeks ago lots more have been reported - and I would guess quite a few more to come since Easter weekend and the bad weather, when many would be away camping for the first time.

Replacing my bellows with another 04S doesn’t now fill me with confidence, so I think a discussion with the dealer (Breeze - who I’ve no issues with at all) to suggest bellows testing and warranty claim but wait a short period until a proven solution is found.

My guess is that with T6.1 Cali production ending very soon and VW focussing on it’s replacement model, I imagine VW issuing us some AquaTex to apply to the seams. Cheap, quick and - according to some posters - appears to work. I for one wouldn’t be against that providing it was approved by VW and the 5yr warranty was unaffected.

 

[lohr500]

It saddens me to see reports of more failures from different members of the forum.

To a layman like me, there does seem to be a pattern to the failures which indicates a systemic design or manufacturing defect, rather than a random event.

Sharing our findings and experiences through the forum should help strengthen our case with VW and whilst I am very unhappy that our bellows leaked, at least I know I am not alone and that several of us are going through the same pain and frustration.

I would also like to thank everyone who has taken part in the poll that I set up.
This morning I sent the results to date to Adrian at the VW Executive Office.

 

[markbrown83]

I'm also still yet to see a set of bellows dated later than what ours were, and we know how that ended.

 

[lohr500]

I’ve got my Cali booked in for bellows test and replacement at the end of the month, plus replacing a stained kitchen blind from the resulting deluge.

Reported to dealer, VW Customer Services and also Exec Office. Exec office told the dealer that they only had one other case on record of 04S leaking and that was just a few drips.

Since I reported it a couple of weeks ago lots more have been reported - and I would guess quite a few more to come since Easter weekend and the bad weather, when many would be away camping for the first time.

Replacing my bellows with another 04S doesn’t now fill me with confidence, so I think a discussion with the dealer (Breeze - who I’ve no issues with at all) to suggest bellows testing and warranty claim but wait a short period until a proven solution is found.

My guess is that with T6.1 Cali production ending very soon and VW focussing on it’s replacement model, I imagine VW issuing us some AquaTex to apply to the seams. Cheap, quick and - according to some posters - appears to work. I for one wouldn’t be against that providing it was approved by VW and the 5yr warranty was unaffected.

My thoughts exactly on getting the 04S bellows replaced on our Cali at this point in time.

This morning, via eMail, I have asked Adrian at the VW Exec Office to consider issuing a case by case approval to use Aqua Tex for those affected without compromising the 5 year warranty.

To mitigate their risk, I can understand VW not wishing to issue a blanket approval.
But if owners send in clear photographic evidence that their bellows leak and are happy to try Aqua Tex, I see no reason why VW shouldn't issue authority to those owners on a case by case basis.
At best, it could save them a fortune in warranty replacements.
At the very least it may delay the replacement of some bellows under warranty until VW can come up with a more reliable design.
The faulty bellows will end up being scrapped anyway, so as I see it, VW have nothing to lose.

 

[Nimrod]

Our 04S 18/01/24 bellows leaked from the front and rear vertical seams, but nothing from the horizontal seams. Light to moderate rain, started leaking within 2 hours.

We collected the van on the 16th March and tested it on the 17th. Notified dealer and have subsequently be contacted by the Executive Office.

I've told them I'm not prepared to have a replacement bellows until they can confirm its a new version which fixes the problem.

Other than this, the van is spectacular! A vast improvement over our previous T5.1 and T6. If they can fix the bellows, then it's practically perfect. We will be keeping the van and using a topper, but will keep pressing for a proper fix from VW.

 

[markbrown83]

Our 04S 18/01/24 bellows leaked from the front and rear vertical seams, but nothing from the horizontal seams. Light to moderate rain, started leaking within 2 hours.

We collected the van on the 16th March and tested it on the 17th. Notified dealer and have subsequently be contacted by the Executive Office.

I've told them I'm not prepared to have a replacement bellows until they can confirm its a new version which fixes the problem.

Other than this, the van is spectacular! A vast improvement over our previous T5.1 and T6. If they can fix the bellows, then it's practically perfect. We will be keeping the van and using a topper, but will keep pressing for a proper fix from VW.

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You're are now the latest dated bellows I've seen, by one day.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

It saddens me to see reports of more failures from different members of the forum.

To a layman like me, there does seem to be a pattern to the failures which indicates a systemic design or manufacturing defect, rather than a random event.

Sharing our findings and experiences through the forum should help strengthen our case with VW and whilst I am very unhappy that our bellows leaked, at least I know I am not alone and that several of us are going through the same pain and frustration.

I would also like to thank everyone who has taken part in the poll that I set up.
This morning I sent the results to date to Adrian at the VW Executive Office.

Having been engaged in the bellows failures since July, there's looking less and less of a pattern, sad to say.

Not all 03S bellows leak.

The original leakages were not limited to the horizontal seams but the horizontal seams leaked badly. So much so, that a re-design saw a black foam seam sealer inserted along that seam. Early experiences suggested this was a good design change and effective. But now they are leaking which makes no sense whatsoever.

Another alleged "design change" - pre the seam sealer - was the application in the factory of additional waterproofing and allegedly this improved the situation.

Perhaps there are multiple random changes happening at the suppliers in panic at what is going on.

Maybe the additional waterproofing was key but this step was stopped with the addition of seam sealers?

Maybe it's a QC problem with the assembly or the bonding together of the two layer?

I think this is going to rumble on...

 

[RockinNRollin]

The results do seem to suggest some work and some don't . . . that suggests the design itself isn't necessarily the problem, or at least the watertightness of it, which leaves install errors (not sure about this as it's not an interface with the van itself where the problem tends to occur) or quality control as possibilities, unless there genuinely are variations in design (arguably back to QC again). I do wonder about the effect of repeat folds of the bellows on the seams, but that would signal a leak in a specific place(s) where the fold happens, not all along the seam.

 

[tjeffery1]

Due to collect my Cali on Saturday. This doesn’t make for good reading - I’m considering rejecting before even picking it up.
Wondering whether it’s worth even leak testing the bellows myself if there’s a pretty likely chance they will leak.

 

[markbrown83]

Due to collect my Cali on Saturday. This doesn’t make for good reading - I’m considering rejecting before even picking it up.
Wondering whether it’s worth even leak testing the bellows myself if there’s a pretty likely chance they will leak.

All comes down to how you'll deal with it if it leaks?

If you're happy waiting for a fix (if it comes), applying sealant or putting a cover over it then take delivery.

If not, then reject. The more reports that come out the better we feel about rejecting the vehicle. It just comes down to how you feel if it does leak and what you're willing to put up with.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Due to collect my Cali on Saturday. This doesn’t make for good reading - I’m considering rejecting before even picking it up.
Wondering whether it’s worth even leak testing the bellows myself if there’s a pretty likely chance they will leak.

What dealer are you with?

 

[lohr500]

Due to collect my Cali on Saturday. This doesn’t make for good reading - I’m considering rejecting before even picking it up.
Wondering whether it’s worth even leak testing the bellows myself if there’s a pretty likely chance they will leak.

Are you travelling far to collect your van and what is the weather forecast for Saturday at your collection dealership?
If not far, could you insist they put up the bellows 1st thing in the morning and also have a hose pipe ready if there hasn't been much rain?

On my first test with natural rain and a hosepipe occasionally simulating light drizzle on the front face and corners of the bellows, water started creeping through the vertical seams after no more than 30 minutes.
Once the capillary action started, it continued even without the use of a hosepipe.

But as @markbrown83 has mentioned, if it does leak, what will your plan be?

Unless the Aqua Tex that I have applied fails spectacularly in the next few days, I have decided to stick with the van and await a more reliable solution from VW (if ever). I will use a topper in very bad weather to minimise the risk of leakage.

But I fully understand and support others who have decided to reject their vans.

 

[tjeffery1]

What dealer are you with?

Breeze Poole

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Then you will be well

Breeze Poole

Then, the likelihood is that you will be very well looked after

 

[stationmaster]

Then you will be well

Then, the likelihood is that you will be very well looked after

Agree. Breeze Poole, very helpful dealership.

 

[tjeffery1]

Are you travelling far to collect your van and what is the weather forecast for Saturday at your collection dealership?
If not far, could you insist they put up the bellows 1st thing in the morning and also have a hose pipe ready if there hasn't been much rain?

On my first test with natural rain and a hosepipe occasionally simulating light drizzle on the front face and corners of the bellows, water started creeping through the vertical seams after no more than 30 minutes.
Once the capillary action started, it continued even without the use of a hosepipe.

But as @markbrown83 has mentioned, if it does leak, what will your plan be?

Unless the Aqua Tex that I have applied fails spectacularly in the next few days, I have decided to stick with the van and await a more reliable solution from VW (if ever). I will use a topper in very bad weather to minimise the risk of leakage.

But I fully understand and support others who have decided to reject their vans.

Thanks everyone.

Breeze is only an hour from me so it isn't a massive slog to get to. Exactly, we're still on the fence about what to do. Part of us thinks just to yolo and use a cali topper if it does leak and delve into it again when version 5/6/7 comes about.

But then the logical side of the brain thinks...hang on...£70k+ on a van...it's got to be perfect (or at the very least, fit for purpose!).

Did you discuss with your dealer about self application of aqua tex?

 

[RockinNRollin]

I would suggest at the very least you take ownership and test it out thoroughly. If you're within the first month, you've nothing really to lose. They don't appear to all leak! If it does, I think it will get sorted. A topper/wrap is useful for winter anyway (bellows kept drier so easier to get dry to put away, plus insulating) if you want to continue to use normally.

It's one component of a comprehensive vehicle and putting a topper/wrap on isn't that arduous, especially when it should only be a stop-gap situation. If the Cali is the vehicle you really want, I would stick with it (and we have).

 

[OxonCalifornia]

I really do think that whilst VW seek a permanent solution the easiest short term and what seems to be an effective solution , so new owners can enjoy their van is for VW to apply Aquatex or similar at the factory once bellows installed or send a directive out for the dealer to apply, with a can given to the customer for good measure - job done and don't let Bellowsgate ruin the 'new car experience' after all there is a lot about a Cali to be enjoyed alongside the pop top roof !

 

[lohr500]

Dealer was understanding, helpful but ultimately non-committal on the use of Aqua Tex invalidating the warranty.

VW Exec Office wouldn't make a decision on it either, stating that approval would have to come through the dealership/warranty support network.

I am now pushing the VW Exec Office to revisit their stance on Aqua Tex and/or Fabsil.
I am asking them to issue a written case by case approval, based on photographic evidence of leakage from individual owners.

As I see it this would save VW a lot of money replacing bellows in the short term that still might not work, reduce the number of rejected vans that their dealership network have to accept back, provide a possible fix to owners who want to use their vans this season and gain back some goodwill from a very frustrated group of customers. The leaking bellows will be scrapped anyway as/when replaced, so I'm struggling to understand why VW wouldn't approve the use of Aqua Tex on a case by case basis!!!

 

[RockinNRollin]

Dealer was understanding, helpful but ultimately on-committal on the use of Aqua Tex invalidating the warranty.

VW Exec Office wouldn't make a decision on it either, stating that approval would have to come through the dealership/warranty support network.

I am now pushing the VW Exec Office to revisit their stance on Aqua Tex and/or Fabsil.
I am asking them to issue a written case by case approval, based on photographic evidence of leakage from individual owners.

As I see it this would save VW a lot of money replacing bellows in the short term that still might not work, reduce the number of rejected vans that their dealership network have to accept back, provide a possible fix to owners who want to use their vans this season and gain back some goodwill from a very frustrated group of customers. The leaking bellows will be scrapped anyway as/when replaced, so I'm struggling to understand why VW wouldn't approve the use of Aqua Tex on a case by case basis!!!

Fabsil I think is solvent based so I doubt it would be endorsed. I imagine something similar to Nikwax type spray-on stuff used for outdoor coats would be the least damaging, I'm not familiar with Aquatex though so it might be similar?

It does seem ludicrous though that if you're at the point the bellows are leaking and VW are prepared to replace them (i.e. they're effectively rubbish-in-waiting at that point), what's the harm in treating them with something?

 

[RockinNRollin]

Fundamentally it's the seams, not the fabric, that's leaking. It's mechanically quite a simple thing really - absolute push comes to shove, I suspect a DIY fix really wouldn't be that hard, whether that's Aquatex/surface waterproofer, or something more akin to a sealant. Obviously it will create warranty issues, but once the vans are out of warranty, or of the owner isn't bothered about compromising warranty on that particular component, then it's not that much of an issue.