Ideas to keep warm?

[pjm-84]

Lost sleep only once through cold. I was in Norway and it dropped to minus 16 in the tent and I had gone to sleep with no warm kit on. Woke a few hours later and the remaining hours were tough. I decided, maybe wrongly, that going for a frozen jumper, out of the frozen bergen would lose too much body heat. I curled up and gritted my teeth ( boots froze in my sleeping bag)

Snow hole the follow night was so warm

 

[bvirc]

I don't really understand where all this paranoia of using the original SE parking heater is coming from... Were there any cases of suffocation or is it just an urban legend? I can't believe that VW would afford to let us using it with no limitations or safety disclaimers.
We spend almost 100 nights per year in the Cali in temperatures down to -15C and up to 2400 m with a lot of snow in the Alps in conditions similar to the pics below. And definitely there is no real need to sleep in cold or under 4 seasons duvet or sleeping bag unless it is your choice. On contrary, you can have really warm and cosy nights and it is easy to simulate a sauna there if you prefer

My personal experiences and opinions that are not necessarily shared by others are:
- The parking heater is perfectly safe to use all night long and the thermostat would turn it on and off.
- For longer use at altitudes higher than 1.500 m you need to upgrade it with the high altitude kit, installed by a certified Eberspacher service. You can still use original setup at higher altitudes for a shorter periods of time (e.g. few hours) but I wouldn't risk longer camping at some mountain passes or ski resorts without the upgrade. ( http://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2-kit-12-volt-high-altitude-kit.html )
- Diesel fumes that you can notice sometimes in the initial stage are normal and harmless
- Using the heater constantly keeps your fresh water tank functional down to -15C and your grey waste tank down to -10C according to my experience. However, living in such extreme conditions is another story with other problems occuring (ice accumulating between the doors seals, etc.)
- Insulated screens are essential and make huge difference in freezing conditions
- Below 10C it is perfectly fine for 2 persons to sleep with sealed windows and doors - there is still a basic air circulation obviously through the ventilation system, definitely enough to keep fresh air and almost no condensation. Even in the morning you can not notice any bad air feeling.
- You can sleep in the pop-up roof down using some kind of a topper or screens with just a few degrees difference between lower and upper compartments while using a heater of course. I personally prefer 5 mm foil screens that insulate better than standard toppers or the Brandrup ISO Top.
- For the winter use it is a smart move to use propane gas instead of butane, because propane works better in cold. I even changed a Campingaz bottle with alternative ALU one and changing a safety valve. I think that in Norway this is even a standard Cali gas setup.

All in all, with these basic measures I enjoy winter nights in t-shirt, shorts and a light duvet that doesn't take too much space and I add some pics for inspirations.

 

[MattBW]

The heaters like this have an external exhaust and are sealed units you should be safe from CO.

 

[Bellesca]

How easy do you find it to set up? I've read it can be quite tricky...[/QUOTE
The instructions aren't brilliant but after deciphering the photos, it was quite straightforward. The attachments have been improved since previous models, and the fitting is really neat. It's like Ikea stuff.....make sure you know which bit goes where before attaching.

 

[Eileen]

We have purchased a 12v electric blanket for the winter (upstairs) we did have to buy a 3 metre extension cable as the standard cable did not reach upstairs

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AITKRK6/?tag=eliteelect-21

 

[estresao]

I don't really understand where all this paranoia of using the original SE parking heater is coming from... Were there any cases of suffocation or is it just an urban legend? I can't believe that VW would afford to let us using it with no limitations or safety disclaimers.
We spend almost 100 nights per year in the Cali in temperatures down to -15C and up to 2400 m with a lot of snow in the Alps in conditions similar to the pics below. And definitely there is no real need to sleep in cold or under 4 seasons duvet or sleeping bag unless it is your choice. On contrary, you can have really warm and cosy nights and it is easy to simulate a sauna there if you prefer

My personal experiences and opinions that are not necessarily shared by others are:
- The parking heater is perfectly safe to use all night long and the thermostat would turn it on and off.
- For longer use at altitudes higher than 1.500 m you need to upgrade it with the high altitude kit, installed by a certified Eberspacher service. You can still use original setup at higher altitudes for a shorter periods of time (e.g. few hours) but I wouldn't risk longer camping at some mountain passes or ski resorts without the upgrade. ( http://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2-kit-12-volt-high-altitude-kit.html )
- Diesel fumes that you can notice sometimes in the initial stage are normal and harmless
- Using the heater constantly keeps your fresh water tank functional down to -15C and your grey waste tank down to -10C according to my experience. However, living in such extreme conditions is another story with other problems occuring (ice accumulating between the doors seals, etc.)
- Insulated screens are essential and make huge difference in freezing conditions
- Below 10C it is perfectly fine for 2 persons to sleep with sealed windows and doors - there is still a basic air circulation obviously through the ventilation system, definitely enough to keep fresh air and almost no condensation. Even in the morning you can not notice any bad air feeling.
- You can sleep in the pop-up roof down using some kind of a topper or screens with just a few degrees difference between lower and upper compartments while using a heater of course. I personally prefer 5 mm foil screens that insulate better than standard toppers or the Brandrup ISO Top.
- For the winter use it is a smart move to use propane gas instead of butane, because propane works better in cold. I even changed a Campingaz bottle with alternative ALU one and changing a safety valve. I think that in Norway this is even a standard Cali gas setup.

All in all, with these basic measures I enjoy winter nights in t-shirt, shorts and a light duvet that doesn't take too much space and I add some pics for inspirations.
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@bvirc, how you deal with condensation in such a circumstances? I'm assuming you closed every vent to avoid cold go inside, am I wrong?

 

[bvirc]

@bvirc, how you deal with condensation in such a circumstances? I'm assuming you closed every vent to avoid cold go inside, am I wrong?

Condensation is usually not a serious problem... During cooking we leave a window on the left side partly open and during the night we leave cupboards open for air to circulate, but in general - insulated screens at the front windows do the job.

 

[estresao]

Mine one is a Beach, so no cupboards...... leaving cupboards in a SE let air circulates?!?!?

I have no problems using the heater the whole night, is what I usually do. I've got an internal thermal cover and an external cover which deal nice with water and wind, but I guess I have to leave always a ventilation point. That's what I don't get because my lack of experience (got mi Cali last April). I got windows deflectors.... should I leave front windows a little opened? Will I get frozen?

 

[bvirc]

Cupboards are left open to allow warm air to dry the walls behind - which are typical condensation collecting points. In the winter it also help keeping both water tanks unfrozen.
No need to leave any window open over the night.
Yes, a lot of people died so far in the Calis

 

[estresao]

LOL yes, they will be found in 3000 years time when the global climate warm get them unhidden LOL

OK, I thought the cupboard stuff was to get some vent from somewhere (gas vent or something like that), but I see now your point.

So, summarizing, when under 0 degrees, no ventilation during the night? I guess that's because the heater will be working most of the time and will dry the air.

 

[bvirc]

I usually close all the windows under 10C, but probably there are different, more conservative opinions around. The same goes for using a thermal foil for the pop-up roof.

 

[estresao]

I've got it, makes sense. Thanks a lot.

I guess I'll net more experience this winter when going to skiing and sleeping "out there" in the snow, but your comments will be quite valuable.

 

[WelshGas]

LOL yes, they will be found in 3000 years time when the global climate warm get them unhidden LOL

OK, I thought the cupboard stuff was to get some vent from somewhere (gas vent or something like that), but I see now your point.

So, summarizing, when under 0 degrees, no ventilation during the night? I guess that's because the heater will be working most of the time and will dry the air.

The heater cannot dry the air at night. You are breathing out moisture, if you are alive of course. That moisture will condense on the coldest part of the internal body, body panels behind the trim, windows, even if they are double glazed. Anything colder than the air temp: inside will condense out the water vapour. Having a window, or a Brandrup Air Grill to provide ventilation if the roof is down or if it is elevated with a Topper on , that covers the built in vents, is very important to get rid of the humid air and extra CO2 produced by the passengers inside and allow you to have a good night sleep. Very easy for the CO2 % to creep up overnight if there is no ventilation and at 5% CO2 can give you a number of nasty symptoms and make you feel unwell.
Your choice, heater on or Hypertensive headache or other cardiac symptoms.
I know, someone will say " I've never had problems etc: etc: ", my answer to that is simple - Not Yet, and have you ever measured your blood pressure overnight?

 

[F5 JNR]

Currently, wife n I in underwear with foam mattress topper n sheet using duvet from home over us, still too warm due to leaving heater on 1. Because 3 and 4 year old boys in top bunk with thermal suits on, comfortz topper, inner topper thingy and comfortz silverscreen thingy too. No problems, may as well be snowing outside! Bring it on!!!! We're 4motion too.

 

[F5 JNR]

Curiosity got me on this one...so I googled it.

Human body produces about 100w of heat per hour, thats 341 BTU, or basically a human metabolism could heat 341lb of water by 1 deg F per hour.

2 adults and 2 kids in a van!?!? mmmm...ensure ventilation to keep cooler and get rid of those many litres of water from breathing and sweating.

 

[estresao]

Interesting. I'm about to buy a weather station.... a van suitable one, in order to tell in/out temperature and humidity to learn and control these stuff. When browsing I've seen one that reads CO2 as well but thought it wouldn't worth, but now I can see it could be also nice to be able to measure it.

 

[WelshGas]

A little experiment - Go for a long drive with passengers, on a Cold day. All windows shut. Air Con OFF, and heater ON with Re-Circulation ON. How long can you drive for before you cannot see out of the windows because they are misted up?
If you don't drive like that, then why would you sleep like that?

 

[CYCLOPATH]

We just have am enormously thick duvet and sleep up top. We've camped in snow and been ok - except for my nose! Can't think what to do about that!?

With a topper?
I am off to the Alps probably for pre Christmas, and debating if I need one
I prefer travelling as light and as simple as possible

 

[IanE]

We've acquired a topper since writing that. We had camped in snow without in the Lakes for a night. I think I'd be inclined to get one for the Alps. It's not too much of a faff and the comfortz one quite easily fits in with the chairs in the tailgate.

 

[F5 JNR]

Good point welshgas, simple and effectively written.

 

[Skylark2.0]

I don't really understand where all this paranoia of using the original SE parking heater is coming from... Were there any cases of suffocation or is it just an urban legend? I can't believe that VW would afford to let us using it with no limitations or safety disclaimers.
We spend almost 100 nights per year in the Cali in temperatures down to -15C and up to 2400 m with a lot of snow in the Alps in conditions similar to the pics below. And definitely there is no real need to sleep in cold or under 4 seasons duvet or sleeping bag unless it is your choice. On contrary, you can have really warm and cosy nights and it is easy to simulate a sauna there if you prefer

My personal experiences and opinions that are not necessarily shared by others are:
- The parking heater is perfectly safe to use all night long and the thermostat would turn it on and off.
- For longer use at altitudes higher than 1.500 m you need to upgrade it with the high altitude kit, installed by a certified Eberspacher service. You can still use original setup at higher altitudes for a shorter periods of time (e.g. few hours) but I wouldn't risk longer camping at some mountain passes or ski resorts without the upgrade. ( http://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2-kit-12-volt-high-altitude-kit.html )
- Diesel fumes that you can notice sometimes in the initial stage are normal and harmless
- Using the heater constantly keeps your fresh water tank functional down to -15C and your grey waste tank down to -10C according to my experience. However, living in such extreme conditions is another story with other problems occuring (ice accumulating between the doors seals, etc.)
- Insulated screens are essential and make huge difference in freezing conditions
- Below 10C it is perfectly fine for 2 persons to sleep with sealed windows and doors - there is still a basic air circulation obviously through the ventilation system, definitely enough to keep fresh air and almost no condensation. Even in the morning you can not notice any bad air feeling.
- You can sleep in the pop-up roof down using some kind of a topper or screens with just a few degrees difference between lower and upper compartments while using a heater of course. I personally prefer 5 mm foil screens that insulate better than standard toppers or the Brandrup ISO Top.
- For the winter use it is a smart move to use propane gas instead of butane, because propane works better in cold. I even changed a Campingaz bottle with alternative ALU one and changing a safety valve. I think that in Norway this is even a standard Cali gas setup.

All in all, with these basic measures I enjoy winter nights in t-shirt, shorts and a light duvet that doesn't take too much space and I add some pics for inspirations.
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Wow, how inspiring is this post. Amazing photos

 

[Alan]

I have always slept better with fresh air coming into a room (at home or in the van) no matter what the outside temperature

Providing lm wrapped up accordingly
I feel as snug as a bug in a rug

 

[CYCLOPATH]

I don't really understand where all this paranoia of using the original SE parking heater is coming from... Were there any cases of suffocation or is it just an urban legend? I can't believe that VW would afford to let us using it with no limitations or safety disclaimers.
We spend almost 100 nights per year in the Cali in temperatures down to -15C and up to 2400 m with a lot of snow in the Alps in conditions similar to the pics below. And definitely there is no real need to sleep in cold or under 4 seasons duvet or sleeping bag unless it is your choice. On contrary, you can have really warm and cosy nights and it is easy to simulate a sauna there if you prefer

My personal experiences and opinions that are not necessarily shared by others are:
- The parking heater is perfectly safe to use all night long and the thermostat would turn it on and off.
- For longer use at altitudes higher than 1.500 m you need to upgrade it with the high altitude kit, installed by a certified Eberspacher service. You can still use original setup at higher altitudes for a shorter periods of time (e.g. few hours) but I wouldn't risk longer camping at some mountain passes or ski resorts without the upgrade. ( http://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2-kit-12-volt-high-altitude-kit.html )
- Diesel fumes that you can notice sometimes in the initial stage are normal and harmless
- Using the heater constantly keeps your fresh water tank functional down to -15C and your grey waste tank down to -10C according to my experience. However, living in such extreme conditions is another story with other problems occuring (ice accumulating between the doors seals, etc.)
- Insulated screens are essential and make huge difference in freezing conditions
- Below 10C it is perfectly fine for 2 persons to sleep with sealed windows and doors - there is still a basic air circulation obviously through the ventilation system, definitely enough to keep fresh air and almost no condensation. Even in the morning you can not notice any bad air feeling.
- You can sleep in the pop-up roof down using some kind of a topper or screens with just a few degrees difference between lower and upper compartments while using a heater of course. I personally prefer 5 mm foil screens that insulate better than standard toppers or the Brandrup ISO Top.
- For the winter use it is a smart move to use propane gas instead of butane, because propane works better in cold. I even changed a Campingaz bottle with alternative ALU one and changing a safety valve. I think that in Norway this is even a standard Cali gas setup.

All in all, with these basic measures I enjoy winter nights in t-shirt, shorts and a light duvet that doesn't take too much space and I add some pics for inspirations.
View attachment 10019 View attachment 10020 View attachment 10021 View attachment 10022 View attachment 10023 View attachment 10024 View attachment 10025

Brilliant post, thanks, you obviously have lots of experience
Why can't you use the standard heater above 1500 meters?what happens if you do? And is it an cold problem, or low O2 tension?

 

[Swissian]

Why can't you use the standard heater above 1500 meters?what happens if you do? And is it an cold problem, or low O2 tension?

I'm wondering about this also as I plan to do a lot of overnights in the mountain passes here next year. Maybe @sapto or @shane have experience and can comment.

 

[zeratul]

Hi bvirc,

So where is this skiing picture taken exactly in Norway?
This looks like a great last-minute christmas holiday plan ...!