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Why I decided NOT to wait for the GC

itscalledbob

itscalledbob

Home is where you park it
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Location
Peterborough
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T6 Ocean 204 4Motion
In short I believe there are better (and I suspect cheaper) alternative already available.

After a huge amount of consternation We’ve decided to put a deposit on the Knaus boxdrive 680. (Pronounced K-naus)


Details: https://www.knaus.com/en-uk/camper-vans-cuv/boxdrive/highlights/


Wife and I had decided we were changing the Cali for a van with a washroom but not a Ducato (for a number of reasons). The new Crafter seemed an ideal alternative and the GC couldn’t have been introduced with better timing (or so we thought).


We so much wanted to like the GC and VW were initially pushing on an open door but what we saw in Düsseldorf didn’t really impress and what I heard in Birmingham failed to improve our view.


The only things that kept us interested was the 4motion, price and one build manufacturing (warranty).


Following the Birmingham show what was really grating on me was the suggested additional £15k premium for a UK spec vehicle that was partially justified as ‘what the market could bear’ (FFS!).


The final nail in the coffin has been the continued lack of concrete information, despite receiving assurances by the VW marketing people in the Düsseldorf show that the GC would be available to order in the UK by January. Almost 4 months have elapsed and a month since I was at the Birmingham show and STILL nothing. I wanted Billy’s replacement for summer and If ordered now the Knaus would be available in July. Decision made, deposit placed.


I’ve made it clear on a previous posts I thought the GC hadn’t been thought through and the finish quality was poor. Contrasting that with the Knaus you’ll find a well thought out and well finished interior, you’ll even note there’s a place to hang the shower head too! It’s quite clear Knaus is a company well grounded in making caravans and conversions. I also noted the German start price is €60k which translates exactly to a UK price of £55k (no ripoff Britain premium added). This fact would seem to indicate another contrast that suggests VWC propensity to bend us over! I should mention a full spec Boxdrive can go north of £80k. Another point to note is the Knaus uses the mid height van and is 20cm lower than the equivalent GC 680 and according looks a little tidier. Incidentally the Westy Sven Hedin uses the mid height van too (so no idea why VW have to use the extra height?)


I’ll let everyone know and will post a video review when it turns up.
 
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Good call and thanks for the info. We are also to decide between the Cali and the GC, and this looks like a very good and viable option without the ripoff prices. Did you get 4MO?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 
[QUOTE=". Did you get 4MO?

[/QUOTE]


Sadly this option isn't available however Ed is double checking.
 
Fantastic choice, never liked the grand california from day one. The interior is far to clinical and looks like an operating theatre , we looked at a Hymercar yosemite last weekend and were very impressed with the finish and pop top roof but as you say not a VW . If we were upsizing then the knaus would be the one for us, please upload some pics as soon as possible.
 
Fantastic choice, never liked the grand california from day one. The interior is far to clinical and looks like an operating theatre , we looked at a Hymercar yosemite last weekend and were very impressed with the finish and pop top roof but as you say not a VW . If we were upsizing then the knaus would be the one for us, please upload some pics as soon as possible.

Good choice, I would also consider the Adria Twin Supreme but one thing to consider is the Ducato is about to be updated to comply with new CO2 requirements.... Also getting a facelift. I think if I was going down the Fiat route i'd wait for the 2020 model year. Oh and if you want a pop-top check out GlobeCar too (positive bargain)
 
One more point, had vw been on the same lines as the Hymercar yosemite then I think it would have been worthy of the "grand california" badge.
 
One more point, had vw been on the same lines as the Hymercar yosemite then I think it would have been worthy of the "grand california" badge.

I have no idea why VW didn't put a pop-roof option on the GC 600/680 insteed of turning it into a 'Beluga Whale', what on earth were they thinking?? seriously, it doesn't work on ANY level!
 
@itscalledbob I'm interested in how you go with this as we've been interested in going up-size from the current LWB High-roof T6. I see that Better Than Camping show a MAN badged version on their website, do you know if such a thing exists?
When do you take delivery or do you have it already?
Any info on your vehicle and experiences with it would be most welcome. If not on this forum please let us know here you post.

Rod
 
[QUOTE="rod_vw,
Any info on your vehicle and experiences with it would be most welcome. If not on this forum please let us know here you post.

Rod[/QUOTE]

As of this stage I’ve only place a deposit and expect a delivery within 4 months. I intend to develop a blog dedicated to my travels and experiances but that can only happen once I’ve got it .

I know very little about the Mann vehicle other than it’s a rebadged Crafter. If I were to guess I suspect it will have a different level of fittings and aim at a slightly different market. I would recommend you contact Ed at ed@betterthancamping.co.uk and ask him what the diferance is. As I’ve already said he’s been very helpful to me and if you do ask something he doesn’t know he will find out for you.

HTH.

Edit: just looked on the Better than camping and Knaus websites and I think the Man is a motorhome built on a crafter chassis cab badged Man whereas the boxdrive is a van conversion. Check out: https://www.knaus.com/en-uk/motorhomes/van-ti-plus/highlights/
 
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@itscalledbob yes you are correct, I only flipped past that page and didn't really notice more than the front of the camper.

I have been into a MAN commercial dealer and requested info on the base vehicles which I did eventually get but as yet they are not geared up for selling vehicles of this size.

I look forward to seeing the blog when you get your Knaus.

Rod
 
A very interesting post, felt I had to thank you having read it all! We have a Cali which is great for now but always thinking about the future. That van looks really smart indeed, a no brainier for you I think. I am seriously impressed by it. Perhaps it will take a while for VW to perfect the GC to the same standards as the Cali. Time will tell. Do enjoy and I look forward to hearing all about it! Cheers
 
My daughter was at the Campervan show and told me she had a quick look at the GC (she has a Merc Sprinter campervan, her second, converted to her own spec). A quick look was all she needed to know that it simply didn't interest her, she said my 2007 Cali was much nicer.

I wonder if VW are waiting till they can tell if there's going to be much interest (no) before they start setting up to build them?
 
Following an invite by Matt Hertzburg from Premier Motorhomes in Doncaster I travelled up to look at the first available Knaus Boxdrive in the UK. https://www.premiummotorhomes.com.

All comments are my own and I am not in any way affiliated to Knaus or any company selling Knaus products. I am also not receiving any inducements to act on behalf of Knaus or anyone affiliated to Knaus.

As promised (and requested) I've added a couple of pictures of one I've seen today. Second impressions are good. I thought the quality was better than what I'd seen in the GC and also thought the Van was better thought out.


Model is the Boxdrive 680 (basic 55K)
Extras include:

Crafter Pack
Boxdrive Pack
Styling Pack with 17" Knaus black and silver Alloys
LED Main Headlights
Deep Black Pearl Paint
Las Vegas cream leather
2.0L 177
Automatic DSG
Right Hand Drive
3500kg GVW

Retail Price £69,248


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Blackout curtains (option), I was a bit surprised at these as was expecting the normal blind. Also they have what looks like an electric plug and a wire running through the bottom (second picture). Can't find any details about them but have posed the question.


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The bed raises up, which is quite a convenient feature.
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Full length cupboard and washroom door, which doubles as a shower cubical and vehicle separator.
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Usual Thetford loo with handbasin
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Useful handbasin, you may also note the shower is outside the washroom
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Another interesting feature is the handbasin pulls out and reveals an even bigger handbasin. I'm not sure of the utility of this but I guess it allows you to use it without having to sit on the loo??
Yo6YS5OrSwWlgz0TLgc+%w.jpg

It has a shower riser bar and dedicated shower head! Why mention this? The GC hasn't!! You'll also note the washroom door rotates round and takes up space in the walkway providing a full sized shower room... Nice idea!
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Full size fridge with ice box, I suspect it will be of greater utility to the GC's drawer and is placed out of the sun too!
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Two additional draws below the fridge.
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Full length hanging cupboard
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Picture with 3rd person bed, other points to note, the rear seats separate to give an additional 10cm width. Also the table doesn't have a leg.

HZRP37MDT%OLsLFeTBxmOg.jpg


+wsktryETNm55g5ajvCmrg.jpg
 
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We are also to decide between the Cali and the GC,
I find this the oddest statement. Unless you've signed a pledge to only ever buy vehicles direct from VW, I can't understand how these can be competitors at the same time. I can understand folk who had a Cali but circumstances have changed and now want a GC. I can understand folk who bought a Cali and realised they made a mistake and now want a GC, but to hold both in the air and consider between the two strikes me that some more thinking is required about the compromises of each, and that a couple of hires would be money well spent.
I'm probably over sensitive to this having oscilated between a regular 'Cali' and my T4 LWB high top (the old version of the Westfalia Joker). The differences in both camping and everyday use of even these two was massive (and they are the same width and only 30cm different in length).
If it's not too much of a thread swerve, can you share why you think my logic is flawed?
 
Steps slide in and out, you can also see the track for the shower room door (or room separator)

sMQWXzKFTc6%9WuG%cnV8Q.jpg

Legless table! Little things make life easier!
dMMFsPaMQ2+m6GxBpSymIg.jpg

There are a total of three reading lights all with USB ports! The lights have a nice tap touch on/off button too.

JupInU1GTk+zcyArFDd4ww.jpg

Usual blind/flyscreen

xJlo2GHiT0eq0Slrhil0MA.jpg

cBUNnEx3RnSB9%TOMn6eWw.jpg

Loads of lights including this large LED panel

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tNQM2xqtSYmwONjB1c7viA.jpg

Look! UK plug... VW could learn a lot(?)

fio6EjVZSUSXlbULkgbMnQ.jpg

Rear storage about 60 x 106 x 195

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Bed measures 197 long (washroom side) and 212 (kitchen side) by 152 wide. That's almost 7 feet long! From my perspective I think you'd have better utility by reducing the bed by 20cm and provided a slightly longer kitchen (third cooking ring or small drainer?) and more room in the cabin. But I guess this is more designed for the German market and cursory observations suggest they may be a bit taller??

MozsUwRRRZi9qZWPMaBwFg.jpg

This is the only thing that concerns me.... the gas locker looks like its for a Campingaz 907! I've posed the question and hope I'm wrong. Edit: I've been assured you can fit a flowgas 3.9kg cylinder (£18 refill) in the gas locker

ZKXMj9ybQnCHQCL6RPVYNg.jpg


All in all and notwithstanding my initial comments I feel The Knaus if a significant improvement on the GC... I guess the only possible fly in the ointment is residuals....
 
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I find this the oddest statement. Unless you've signed a pledge to only ever buy vehicles direct from VW, I can't understand how these can be competitors at the same time. I can understand folk who had a Cali but circumstances have changed and now want a GC. I can understand folk who bought a Cali and realised they made a mistake and now want a GC, but to hold both in the air and consider between the two strikes me that some more thinking is required about the compromises of each, and that a couple of hires would be money well spent.
I'm probably over sensitive to this having oscilated between a regular 'Cali' and my T4 LWB high top (the old version of the Westfalia Joker). The differences in both camping and everyday use of even these two was massive (and they are the same width and only 30cm different in length).
If it's not too much of a thread swerve, can you share why you think my logic is flawed?

2into1, no, your logic is not flawed. However, the reality is - we have been renting Cali's for the last few years, and are very comfortable with using it. Now that the last kid will be flying the nest in a few months, we are all set to purchase one - which one is the question and hence that statement to decide between them two :) The deicision will be based on our kind of adventures.

Currently we are set on a 4MO cali and if required rent a GC or the like. Don't want that huge big chunk of metal parked in the driveway that can only be used on planned outings. With the Cali, all rides can turn into an adventure.
 
Steps slide in and out, you can also see the track for the shower room door (or room separator)

View attachment 46228

Legless table! Little things make life easier!
View attachment 46229

There are a total of three reading lights all with USB ports! The lights have a nice tap touch on/off button too.

View attachment 46230

Usual blind/flyscreen

View attachment 46231

View attachment 46232

Loads of lights including this large LED panel

View attachment 46233

View attachment 46234

Look! UK plug... VW could learn a lot(?)

View attachment 46235

Rear storage about 60 x 106 x 195

View attachment 46236
I think that looks a lovely place to stay..we did the bigger vans and we did enjoy it it was just a bit hotel room in a field..but in another 10 years or so we will probably get one again if the funds allow,,but for now I like the Cali I like feeling like I’m still camping...
 
Thanks for the images.

I was initially quite excited about the Grand Cali, but I need a proper 3 + berths. So I shopped around and found the perfect vehicle. As you have done itscalledbob I put my deposit down on a Knaus Boxdrive 680 last November, hoping for delivery August / September. Many thanks for the detailed images, as I have never seen one outside of youtube and the brochure.

I currently have a Dethleffs A Class which is nice, however I carry lots of stuff (we do motor racing) sometimes tow a car and living in Inverness drive lots of miles in one go. I'm on the limit with weight and I wanted something more comfortable to drive, and having been looking at the same Fiat Ducato dash with the same poor heater and ventilation through 3 x motorhomes, I really needed a change. I cant wait for my Boxdrive!

When will yours be delivered? Mine was scheduled for June / July but slipping. Think VW is the issue with supply of the base vehicle.
 
Thanks for the images.

I was initially quite excited about the Grand Cali, but I need a proper 3 + berths. So I shopped around and found the perfect vehicle. As you have done itscalledbob I put my deposit down on a Knaus Boxdrive 680 last November, hoping for delivery August / September. Many thanks for the detailed images, as I have never seen one outside of youtube and the brochure.

I currently have a Dethleffs A Class which is nice, however I carry lots of stuff (we do motor racing) sometimes tow a car and living in Inverness drive lots of miles in one go. I'm on the limit with weight and I wanted something more comfortable to drive, and having been looking at the same Fiat Ducato dash with the same poor heater and ventilation through 3 x motorhomes, I really needed a change. I cant wait for my Boxdrive!

When will yours be delivered? Mine was scheduled for June / July but slipping. Think VW is the issue with supply of the base vehicle.

Oh no! Slipped to August/ September! I’m supposed to be getting mine in July but not been told of any delivery problems. I’ll get on to my dealer and double check.
 
Oh no! Slipped to August/ September! I’m supposed to be getting mine in July but not been told of any delivery problems. I’ll get on to my dealer and double check.

I just wonder if ours are being built and shipped together as we were both given a similar build date.

What specification have you gone with. Mine as follows:
Crafter package - Energy plus pack - Media nav pack - TV pack - Awning - Spare bed 180 - Folding loft bed - Blackout curtain - Drivers cab footmat set - 2.0/177ps auto - White.
I would have loved metallic paint, but I had to draw the line somewhere. I will be sourcing a nice set of 18" alloys from LK Performance and save a chunk of money rather than pay £1700 from Knaus, then sell the steels and tyres.
I will probably colour code the bumpers too.
I need a tow bar, but Knaus 'apparently' wont factory fit.

Will be good to keep in touch, there is the black one you have posted on here, but as far as I can tell, there are no others in the uk... yet.
 
I presume your getting the'600 hence the loft folding bed, can't make my mind up 600 or 680 it's the beluga whale look on the 600 then the 680 too long,I'm all over the place at the moment we will have to change our T5 getting too old and stiff for the pop up bit. I've covered all bases I bought GR60CAL and GR68CAL DVLA just in case, not seen much on the internet about the 680 does anyone know any threads I can look at.
 
I presume your getting the'600 hence the loft folding bed, can't make my mind up 600 or 680 it's the beluga whale look on the 600 then the 680 too long,I'm all over the place at the moment we will have to change our T5 getting too old and stiff for the pop up bit. I've covered all bases I bought GR60CAL and GR68CAL DVLA just in case, not seen much on the internet about the 680 does anyone know any threads I can look at.

Sorry soppelsa, but I have ordered a Knaus Boxdrive 680, it’s on the Crafter Chassis. Probably shouldn’t be promoting that on this forum, but I was seriously considering the Grand Cale, but just didn’t have everything I needed and unknown when they would be available and at what price, so kept on shopping and plumped for the Knaus. Jumped on here after seeing these Knaus pictures on Google search.. it may be worth taking a trip to look at this one iitscalledbob posted before you make your mind up fully...
 
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