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When is a caravan not a caravan?

Drpps

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I love that logic - unfortunately it seems flawed: a tent is still a tent even if folded and in a bag.

It reminds me of a trick urban legend has for taking a bicycle on the Docklands Light Railway by taking off the front wheel and saying it was no longer a bicycle but two packages.

I hope you convince the judge.
I have actually used that to carry a bike on french railways. No space available for a bike. Took off wheels and wrapped both bits in brown paper. Went as luggage. Was a few years ago now.
 
2into1

2into1

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Thanks for the update @Tomcali . Do you think that the fact that the DVLA now classifies new oceans as mpvs isn’t a game changer in your case? Surely this dispute wouldn’t have got off the ground if your logbook said MPV, or am I missing something?
 
Amarillo

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Thanks for the update @Tomcali . Do you think that the fact that the DVLA now classifies new oceans as mpvs isn’t a game changer in your case? Surely this dispute wouldn’t have got off the ground if your logbook said MPV, or am I missing something?

That sounds like a powerful argument to support @Tomcali. The DVLA has recently reclassified the California from a motor caravan body type to having an MPV body type in its unfolded state.

I still think there is a flaw in the argument, but it certainly strengthens the argument thereby concealing the flaw somewhat.
 
MattBW

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Yeah its an interesting one, and I think the covenant may have been intended one way but as often is the case not carefully thought out and open to interpretation (as most uk law is). The way they are coming at it is if the law says you "can't pitch a tent in your back garden", if it's resting on the lawn in it's bag and not pitched that wouldn't be a breach. It is a strange one but I can see the logic. As you say though it is a motor caravan all the time, but its not being used as one.

They seem to be inferring it is in effect its a car unless you convert it into a camper configuration which seems fair enough to me . Intent has to be a factor in these things . To be honest if it doesn't look like a caravan either does it? In effect if it was a caravelle it would be fine and largely the same from outside.
 
Bellcrew

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What would be the VED tax differences between motorcaravan and MPV?
In my case the van was registered as a diesel car and taxed as such in band g, body was motor caravan. Current years tax £200, if it was registered as a private light goods vehicle it would be £265. MPV taxation would be the same as my current figure for band g, all relevant for a 2016 vehicle.
 
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Neuon2003

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The case has now boiled down to - is the vehicle 'any caravan'?

The DVLA have confirmed that the body type on the V5C is entered by the manufacturer when they register the vehicle. The purpose is so it can be recognised externally by enforcement agencies ie: parking attendants, police etc.

It does not indicate how the vehicle is being used.

Very interesting (and thorny) especially as: the body type description is not just for mere identification, but has been used as a technical qualifying descriptor; and that the vehicle is not a 'motor caravan' by current DVLA policy

"Entered by the manufacturer...". Kafka would be proud. In the case of first registration for V5C, using the on-line variant (RaV)(see HERE), it is understood that the body type cannot be selected; the body type description is automatically populated based on the model chosen and is not amendable on-line.

Wishing you success :thumb
 
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Neuon2003

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Thanks for the update @Tomcali . Surely this dispute wouldn’t have got off the ground if your logbook said MPV, or am I missing something?

Then the legal argument would be: "When is a motor car described as an MPV 'any caravan' for the purposes of a covenant?"
 
Amarillo

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The case has now boiled down to - is the vehicle 'any caravan'?
We have made an application to appeal - submitted 25th July.
We should receive a response from the 1st tier judge within 6 weeks.

Is the response you are waiting:
1) for the judge to reverse their decision, or
2) if the judge will allow an appeal to the upper tribunal?
 
T

Tomcali

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The judge to reconsider the original decision in regard to what is parked on the property.
If he is happy for his work, as it currently stands, to be viewed and considered by others at the upper tier that is a choice for him to make.
 
2into1

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@Tomcali. You don't seem to be responding to what I read as the biggest development here.... That if you traded your Cali and bought a new one today, it would be registered as an MPV not as a motor caravan.
Simple question - would that solve your situation or not? If it makes no difference, that's fine, and I'll stop asking.
 
T

Tomcali

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Thanks for your interest.
The case is live and ongoing and I have been advised not to discuss detail in an open forum.

I will of course share outcomes at the appropriate time .

Appreciate all the support.
 
Perfectos

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The reason for not discussing specifics of a case on public forums et al is it can prejudice the result, courts take a dim view of this type of thing if it brought to their attention, the previous advice Tom sought and the background info is fine, but now with the case under legal guidance Tom would be advised not to discuss the particulars of the case

Good luck Tom, report back once the case is settled

I wish you all the best


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