TSI Opinions

[Plainoldmatt]

Hi All,

New on here and in the process of specing up a California Beach (thanks to everyone who contributed to the ocean vs beach threads). Having chosen a Beach for our particular adventures we have a decision to make over the drive train. In an ideal world a 204 TSI with DSG would be available but it appears that we have two main options to chose from, the 150TDI DSG or the 150 TSI Manuel. So my question is does anyone have any experience of driving the TSI? If they were directly comparable i.e. both were DSG, would you go with the petrol? I like the fact the TSI is cheaper (I'm originally from Yorkshire) 'and we have had petrol cars for the past few years so just trying to decide if the petrol is worth ditching DSG. Not worried about mpg by the way.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Matt

 

[blondebier]

I considered it. Shame no DSG option on the beach.

The tax was all the discouragement I needed.

 

[Sonas]

Personally I would go for DSG, its brilliant. Easy of driving especially when in heavy traffic, much more relaxing.

 

[Stuart]

I'm interested in this answer too. Can we pretend they are both available in DSG and manual to simplify the question?

 

[Jay586]

Look for Izzi...she just got one.

 

[kurienp]

Matt, my 2p.

I would personally go for the TDI with DSG.

TDI - as this engine has more torque and that is what matters when it comes to moving the two tonne vehicle.

I recently went for a vacation to the US and hired a Chevy Escalade v8 petrol. A 2 tonne vehicle again ... and possibly heavier than a Beach/Cali. Thinking it was a v8, you would expect a certain amount of grunt. It made a lot of noise (good noise from the exhaust) when accelarating ... but no where near as peppy as my DSG equipped 4cly TDI VW Golf . The TDI provides the required torque to move from a standing start and also for quick getaways and overtakes.

DSG - as it brings simplicity to life. There are times when you just want the vehicle to just work for you - especially in stop-start traffic or when on those treacherous mountain turns where the clutch and the gear change become quite tedious. DSG is just brilliant.

After having driven a DSG for the past 3 years, there is no way I will go back to anything other than DSG. Also do consider Adaptive Cruise (ACC) with DSG. Ensures a dream ride. I have driven from Newbury to London (end of M4), about 60 miles, without touching the brake pedal even once. I just had to control the steering wheel and the car did the rest for me. A very relaxing ride.

Without wanting to start a war on here on petrol versus diesel (did I just say I did not want to), diesels with adblue are cleaner than petrol. We in campervans are saving the environment in different ways - by not wasting facilities in hotel rooms etc. We are closer to nature ... and love and embrace minimalism.

TDI, DSG, ACC - all the way.

 

[Kmann]

We in campervans are saving the environment in different ways - by not wasting facilities in hotel rooms etc. We are closer to nature ... and love and embrace minimalism.

TDI, DSG, ACC - all the way.

And saving a lot of aeroplane fuel ;-)

 

[Crell]

It would depend on the engine characteristics. As @kurienp says torque is your friend in something heavy like a van. Low down pulling power over something that produces its power further up the rev range. I've not driven the VW petrol, but I'd be curious to try it.

I don't have Adaptive CC on mine but having used it on another car I now wish I had it.

DSG availability would swing it for me, and the 150 and the software on the DSG are a great match.

 

[Plainoldmatt]

Thanks all for taking the time to post your thoughts, great to see such an active owners forum, something I've missed since selling my Defender. I've had autos since 2007 (except the defender) and wouldn't go back to a manual in a "normal" car. Having driven to Florence and back last month I also would love ACC, I think as you say @kurienp and @Crell it's a bit of a dream combination when coupled with DSG.

Whether it's because it's new and different or because I've really enjoyed the relaxed nature of the petrol in our mini clubman I'm still drawn to the TSI. @Crell I'm similarly curious as to it's nature, I'm just not sure buying one because I'm curious is a good reason but if no one says it's a really bad idea I might give it a go in any case. There might even be scope to re-map it once the warranty is up.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Ive had a 150bhp Caravelle on loan for over two weeks now.

Good Points

Quiet engine
Pulls ok from standing
No emissions rubbish Ad blu, dpf, egr etc

Bad points

Lacks mid-range torque
Range - 400miles tops on a full tank
Needs DSG

I am starting to like this engine. But I wouldn't buy the 150, it needs a bit more mid-range grunt. So would look at the 204bhp. But the engine would really suit DSG. I wouldn't buy a manual Petrol, it would have to be DSG.
Therefore the biggest problem I can see is, the Beach in the UK only comes with a 150bhp petrol. I cant for the life of me understand Volkswagens decision here...?

 

[Plainoldmatt]

Thanks @soulstyledevon although you've now got me thinking again. About 20 minutes ago I was pretty set on the Petrol, even added Alcantara to my spec with the savings over the TDI DSG but now I'm wavering again. Sounds like DSG is top of the shopping list which leads me back to the diesel. If you had the choice of a 150 TDI Manual or a 150 TSI Manual which one do you think you would go for?

I don't like the engine restrictions either, assume it's to push us upmarket into the Ocean rather than any technical reason. I take it there are no rumors of changes to the engine line up in the Beach?

 

[CALI FATE]

Thanks @soulstyledevon although you've now got me thinking again. About 20 minutes ago I was pretty set on the Petrol, even added Alcantara to my spec with the savings over the TDI DSG but now I'm wavering again. Sounds like DSG is top of the shopping list which leads me back to the diesel. If you had the choice of a 150 TDI Manual or a 150 TSI Manual which one do you think you would go for?

I don't like the engine restrictions either, assume it's to push us upmarket into the Ocean rather than any technical reason. I take it there are no rumors of changes to the engine line up in the Beach?

VW have restricted the specs to the UK - i would have liked 4motion on my 150 TDi Beach - they offer more in the Euro markets so you can assume we will get similar specs in time. Otherwise order from Holland / Germany and get what you want but with LHD.

 

[Stoneybroke]

I started this thread this morning, there's some interesting reading on the petrol Vs diesel discussion...
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/posts/242948/

 

[soulstyledevon]

Thanks @soulstyledevon although you've now got me thinking again. About 20 minutes ago I was pretty set on the Petrol, even added Alcantara to my spec with the savings over the TDI DSG but now I'm wavering again. Sounds like DSG is top of the shopping list which leads me back to the diesel. If you had the choice of a 150 TDI Manual or a 150 TSI Manual which one do you think you would go for?

I don't like the engine restrictions either, assume it's to push us upmarket into the Ocean rather than any technical reason. I take it there are no rumors of changes to the engine line up in the Beach?

Very tough decision.
I would probably go for the 150bhp diesel with DSG.
However, I am not a fan of this latest Euro 6 diesel engine from Volkswagen. Far to complicated and longterm reliability is still unknown. If I had no other choice, it would have to be the diesel unless they start to offer the bigger petrol and DSG.
I am glad I still have the Euro 5 version and will hold onto it until a better engine becomes available.

Btw, I have read the 204 and 150 Petrols are exactly the same, components wise...?

 

[soulstyledevon]

VW have restricted the specs to the UK - i would have liked 4motion on my 150 TDi Beach - they offer more in the Euro markets so you can assume we will get similar specs in time. Otherwise order from Holland / Germany and get what you want but with LHD.

Been waiting for the 4 motion version now for the last 5 years.
Still nothing, not sure Volkswagen are interested in bring them to the UK.
No idea why. If anything the bigger engines etc would suit the Beach better than the Ocean.

 

[Digger]

The reliability of the T6 diesel from my information from a company which deliver parcels is they are excellent. They have some with 100k miles and very happy. The commercial users would know better than anyone however it depends on how they are used. If for short town journeys as main intent then petrol surely. Another cautionary note is the petrol version high CO2 output will be demonised just as much. Discussions with local authority planners show they are just as anti towards high CO2 petrol as diesel. That would seem to be the intent of government as well.
We may as well use today rather than wait for whatever comes.

 

[phillme]

I've had the 150 TDI DSG and the 150 TSI manual on lone, 0-70 petol feels a lot quicker , 50-70 on kick down pulls stronger with the TDI . If you do big miles go TDI , if you need to do shopping runs, school runs etc inbetween holidays go with the petrol. With the amount of short journeys I have to make its been bliss not to have a regen every time I come home, so much so I've ordered a TSI beach ....

 

[Digger]

I've had the 150 TDI DSG and the 150 TSI manual on lone, 0-70 petol feels a lot quicker , 50-70 on kick down pulls stronger with the TDI . If you do big miles go TDI , if you need to do shopping runs, school runs etc inbetween holidays go with the petrol. With the amount of short journeys I have to make its been bliss not to have a regen every time I come home, so much so I've ordered a TSI beach ....

Very sensible choice. If any diesel vehicle,and not just a Cali, is used primarily for short journeys it will require greater care and maintenance. Not a problem if you do a weekly long run but if not definitely go for petrol although the fuel bill will be much greater.

 

[Plainoldmatt]

@phillme thanks for the review, matches what I'd assumed/hoped would be the difference in character between the two. I also think with the engine being the same as the one in the 204 (and probably more highly powered VW group stuff) then there is scope for a fairly easy re-map I would have thought.

Thanks for all the input everyone, there are definitely pros for both TDI and TSI but think we'll take a chance on the TSI. At the end of the day I'm sure we will have a lot of fun no matter which engine option we end up with. Now back to the configurator for all the other decisions!

Matt

 

[soulstyledevon]

Happy speccing, if that’s actually a thing...?
I’m sure more and more will look at the Petrol. Shame no DSG. Might be worth trying it before committing to the manual, just to be sure.
Agree with poster above, the higher CO2 question mark is something to think about.

We are wondering about converting a panel to Cali Beach style spec.
Thus gaining bigger engine and DSG. Plus not having to worry about roof corrosion too.
New Wave Conversions seem to do some amazing work if I don’t take on the task myself.

 

[Kmann]

If the Petrol would run as far on a gallon as the Diesel and had the same torque to it i would really consider it. But not now. What should be the advantage of the Petrol over the Diesel? I can see absolutely none. With the spec of today, my next Cali will for sure be a Diesel as well.

 

[Jay586]

Celtic Motorhomes, who have a great rep online, do a conversion with the Cali seat rails, heating, etc & a SCA roof. I'm sure I've seen several on their fb page, so can be done & the base vehicle is pure owner choice. Be interesting to cost it up, would be lots tho.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Celtic Motorhomes, who have a great rep online, do a conversion with the Cali seat rails, heating, etc & a SCA roof. I'm sure I've seen several on their fb page, so can be done & the base vehicle is pure owner choice. Be interesting to cost it up, would be lots tho.

Yeah another good company.
Its is expensive going converted and i can only think of perhaps 3 companies i would commission to do the work.
Having done the sums in the past and there isn't much between converted and Cali.
However having owned a Beach for 5 years and now knowing what works for us and what we want from our next version. The conversion route maybe our only option.

 

[Plainoldmatt]

If I went down the Kombi and conversion route do I still get to be part of the forum? I actually started looking at the Kombi and moved up the model ranges, didn't occur to look back at it for the right engine and transmission choice. Looks like it could be a goer (204 TSI DSG) knowing I'm looking for a beach esk spec and not a full Ocean. Discounts also seem higher on the Kombi than on the Cali (some brokers at 15%) and the Kombi can be had with all the options as the beach, including the programmable heater. I'm going to look into it further.

@soulstyledevon, could you share the other companies you rate for conversion work?

 

[Jay586]

This is a while different conversation and may be better elsewhere. I lurk around because I very nearly bought a Cali, had an interesting time doing so and got to like the chat here. However, in the end and due to my particular needs, I've actually got a T6 and then specced a conversion. One thing is that you wouldn't need to buy a Kombi, you can start with the panel van as less gets chucked then and there is a known issue with Kombi windows...

Converters are a minefield, I did a lot of research to avoid disasters.