T6 Ocean. Broken down and engine will not start. Starter motor does not click in. AA called but baffled.

[andyinluton]

Just something else to ponder over, in this cold weather my new Ocean took about 4 or 5 seconds before the starter would work this morning, I assume thats due to the glow plugs needing to get up to temperature first. There must be some sort of inhibitor coming into play there as well.

 

[rod_vw]

Just something else to ponder over, in this cold weather my new Ocean took about 4 or 5 seconds before the starter would work this morning, I assume thats due to the glow plugs needing to get up to temperature first. There must be some sort of inhibitor coming into play there as well.

Yes, my T6 always waits when the key is turned to 'start' until what I have always assumed is the heat up time of the glow plugs. Our new TGE makes this even more noticeable.
Thoughts to myself - is this a timer or a sensor located somewhere that controls this via separate module or the ECU?

 

[andyinluton]

Thoughts to myself - is this a timer or a sensor located somewhere that controls this via separate module or the ECU?

It isn't just a timer as it appears to be temperature sensitive as well.

 

[rod_vw]

It isn't just a timer as it appears to be temperature sensitive as well.

I agree, I've been looking at the wiring diagrams but not sorted it out yet.

 

[flying banana]

Just tried it. The surf key amazingly still started the van as you can see. But then it gave this message.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Just tried it. The surf key amazingly still started the van as you can see. But then it gave this message.

View attachment 104262

Blimey, I did not expect that.

I always that Surf keys or non fob keys would only open the doors.

What does the VW manual say?

 

[WelshGas]

Just tried it. The surf key amazingly still started the van as you can see. But then it gave this message.

View attachment 104262

Will it drive though?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Will it drive though?

Yes great question. I'm assuming that if the engine starts ok and no real warnings, then why not. But then what use is the fob other than to open and close.

If true then will cause many of us to review van security.

Waiting to hear what the manual says.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Might start, but should then stop shortly thereafter, then will just keep cranking and not fire up....as immobilisor chip is not detected.

Alarm should also be going off by now, unless the door was not locked using the proper fob, prior to using the surf key.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Might start, but should then stop shortly thereafter, then will just keep cranking and not fire up....as immobilisor chip is not detected.

Alarm should also be going off by now, unless the door was not locked using the proper fob, prior to using the surf key.

Thank you. This provides some reassurance.

 

[flying banana]

Will it drive though?

I didn't try driving I or leaving it running a while. I was amazed it started though. My box is manual so don't see why it wouldn't drive

 

[Alan Andrews]

Update from VW Van Centre - initial diagnostics have tested and ruled out the Starter Motor and all fuses and relays. The issue seems to be in cabling/control between the Ignition Switch and the Starter Motor.

VW will do further diagnostics next week.

Anyone experienced anything like this before?

 

[rod_vw]

@Alan Andrews, which van centre is it in?

 

[Alan Andrews]

@Alan Andrews, which van centre is it in?

Birmingham

 

[yossarian]

Looks like my conjecture in Post 23 is becoming more plausible. I'm not sure what the FRU (Field replaceable unit) for the keyswitch is -- I'm sure replacement is complicated. I doubt your van center has seen any vans with the same problems.

Nag them to keep your batteries charged. Offer to lend them the hookup cable. If you don't you're going to need new batteries at the end of their repair.

 

[rod_vw]

I don't see that any of the diagnosis is difficult, it's just a case of tracing the circuit through and confirming the electrical conditions at each point.
Personally I would break the circuit approximately in half and test at the mid point then break the faulty side down in a similar fashion until I found the fault. Perhaps that's something that I learned from faulting telecoms equipment many years ago.
The VW current flow diagrams aren't the easiest to follow for such faulting but it can be done if the van centre have suitably trained technicians and are willing to let them have sufficient manhours to do the job!

 

[Alan Andrews]

Looks like my conjecture in Post 23 is becoming more plausible. I'm not sure what the FRU (Field replaceable unit) for the keyswitch is -- I'm sure replacement is complicated. I doubt your van center has seen any vans with the same problems.

Nag them to keep your batteries charged. Offer to lend them the hookup cable. If you don't you're going to need new batteries at the end of their repair.

Yes indeed.

The van does have solar on the roof. These have been sufficient over past 3 years to keep the leisure batteries and engine battery topped up. I have not needed to use my jump set at home for this time. The van is parked up in the open in their storage yard, so whilst sun at this time of year is limited, I think I'll be ok.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Update:

The Cali has been with VW for a little under 3 weeks now. They have been totally snowed under with work and have managed to find the odd bit of time to perform diagnostics. It has taken 3 hours of diagnostics to locate the issue.

The BCM or Body Control Module is faulty.

The BCM receives the signal/voltage from the ignition switch which transfers to the ECU and then to the starter relay.

Total cost including the diagnostics will be £923...wow....just glad I have warranty cover!

 

[rod_vw]

Glad they have found the fault, not heard of BCM faults very often. It would have been an interesting faulting process possibly done easiest with the diagnosis system. I would have liked to try it with VCDS.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Glad they have found the fault, not heard of BCM faults very often. It would have been an interesting faulting process possibly done easiest with the diagnosis system. I would have liked to try it with VCDS.

Yes indeed. Loads of methodical testing of fuses and relays and then connectivity checks between battery and starter motor, ignition switch and relays, bench testing of starter motor and relays etc., before isolating the issue to the BCM.

I'm not clear on what failed inside the BCM yet, or indeed if it is possible to get inside the BCM.

VW say it all needs to be recoded too.

Also something new for the AA engineer. He has never come across a BCM failure before. So will get written up into their checklists now.

Part is on a 2 day order once approved by the warranty people, so still a little wait until I get it back.

 

[Meoncoast]

The thing I find "painful" about these issues, is the length of time vans are off the road. 3 weeks for a diagnosis!!!! Our van is our daily drive and is our only drive - I would be totally screwed without a van for 3 weeks!

 

[Alan Andrews]

The thing I find "painful" about these issues, is the length of time vans are off the road. 3 weeks for a diagnosis!!!! Our van is our daily drive and is our only drive - I would be totally screwed without a van for 3 weeks!

Yes we are desperate to have our fixed van back. Emphasis being fixed.

Being stuck miles away from home, in an open carpark when the garages are all closed for the weekend was stressful.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Update:

I have just heard that VW Birmingham have installed the replacement BCM and recoded it, but the engine still does not crank. They have lodged a VW Technical for assistance from the central VW propeller heads. Hopefully they will get back very soon.

Looks like our plans for school half term might be off.

 

[yossarian]

Update:

I have just heard that VW Birmingham have installed the replacement BCM and recoded it, but the engine still does not crank. They have lodged a VW Technical for assistance from the central VW propeller heads. Hopefully they will get back very soon.

Looks like our plans for school half term might be off.

 

[BigJohn]

Hi @Alan Andrews, I just came across this thread and it's like the last page of a novel is missing!

I'm hopeful that you have your van back by now - what did it turn out to be?