Roof adjustment. Not square at front

[Blackdog]

Hi all
i tried to fit a fiamma f45 awning today. Fitting was easy but when I tried to close the roof it wouldn’t! It looks like the roof is not quite square at the front and is probably 5mm more towards driver side. I have never noticed before and never had a problem. Is the a way to simply adjust the roof to square it up. Many thanks

 

[Kayleigh]

Is the vehicle on a slope towards the drivers side? That could be it.

 

[Blackdog]

I don’t believe this is the issue. It’s on level ground. It looks to me like the roof is very slightly out of alignment. Eg if you were to look from the top the roof is is slightly turned to the right. It’s very small, has been unnoticeable since we had the van with no leaks or issues…..but the awning installation highlighted it. Im interested if there is a way to do some small room adjustments and of course any tradesman tips!!

 

[WelshGas]

I don’t believe this is the issue. It’s on level ground. It looks to me like the roof is very slightly out of alignment. Eg if you were to look from the top the roof is is slightly turned to the right. It’s very small, has been unnoticeable since we had the van with no leaks or issues…..but the awning installation highlighted it. Im interested if there is a way to do some small room adjustments and of course any tradesman tips!!

Check the rear of the roof, because that sits down first, as if that's not correct it would twist the roof.

 

[Blackdog]

Thanks welshgas- is there anything specific to check and possibly adjust?

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks welshgas- is there anything specific to check and possibly adjust?

Nothing specific, but as you hadn't noticed it before I just wondered if there might be anything stopping the roof closing properly after fitting the awning.

 

[Blackdog]

Nothing specific. We noticed the problem when the awning was fitted and the last job was to close the roof. we then noticed the edge of the roof just touched the new bracket preventing the roof to fully close. having removed the brackets and checking more carefully it just looks like the roof is slightly out of alignment. Is there anything that can be adjusted?

 

[Blackdog]

Is there any minor alignment or adjustment possible on the roof or is it all built with zero adjustment possible. ive looked on forum but can’t find anything. Don’t really want to take to vW centre (last resort). As mentioned I think it’s always been like this since we bought it 4 years ago but has never been an issue as we never had an awning fitted which reduced the tolerance ion the roof above driver door. The roof has never been a problem

 

[TripleBee]

You can move the roof by adjusting it on the back scissor brackets. The front only slides through the front scissors, and is not attached fixed there, only at the rear.

 

[Blackdog]

Thanks. Is the adjustment made where the rear scissor attaches to the van or where it attaches to the roof?

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks. Is the adjustment made where the rear scissor attaches to the van or where it attaches to the roof?

I’m not sure where the adjustment is, But, the bolts holding the rear scissors to the elevated roof or the van body are fixed so the adjustment must be a slot on the scissors either top or bottom, so should be fairly obvious.
Take careful and accurate measurements on both sides. I would think the roof has moved rear wards on the drivers side rear scissors.

Adjusting Rear Roof Scissor?

Anyone know if it's possible to adjust the rear roof scissor? I've noticed that my roof is not sitting correctly on the rear near side (it may always have been like this). You can get your fingers under the seal. I've checked: - that there's nothing left in the roof space - there's nothing...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Post 10

 

[westfalia]

Have you any pictures of it?

Could it be that the brackets are on wrong.
With the Thule awning the brackets have a different profile.
One is for the rear and one is for the front.

 

[Blackdog]

Hi westfalia. The fiamma brackets were very good and fitted very snug To bodywork and moulding. You are right that front and back brackets are different. i don’t think that is the issue
welshgas. I think you are right. I checked today the scissors. They are adjustable front to back on the mounting brackets on the van and side to side on the mounting brackets on the roof. I checked the front/back delta and the driver side is back by about 3- 5mm Compared to passenger side. This may well be the cause of the slight misalignmen. There is no evidence or witness marks of slippage on the bracket or fittings. I suspect the roof has been like this since we bought it from vw but the tolerances made it unnoticeable until we tried to fit the awning bracket. The scissor to van is held in place by a 10mm nut (with some sealant underneath-awkward!) and 3 screw bolts. They are not torx head they are like a 12 pointed star type of torx. I don’t have one of these but hope they are available. The plan would be to release the scissor on driver side (hopefully the sealant will not snag things up) and gently tap the scissor forward a few mm, retighten and see how it looks. Hopefully the side to side adjustment is not needed.
if anyone knows the star torx tool size that would be helpful and any other tips are gratefully welcome. Ps. It’s a bit breezy here today so I would not have attempted it today in any case

 

[WelshGas]

Hi westfalia. The fiamma brackets were very good and fitted very snug To bodywork and moulding. You are right that front and back brackets are different. i don’t think that is the issue
welshgas. I think you are right. I checked today the scissors. They are adjustable front to back on the mounting brackets on the van and side to side on the mounting brackets on the roof. I checked the front/back delta and the driver side is back by about 3- 5mm Compared to passenger side. This may well be the cause of the slight misalignmen. There is no evidence or witness marks of slippage on the bracket or fittings. I suspect the roof has been like this since we bought it from vw but the tolerances made it unnoticeable until we tried to fit the awning bracket. The scissor to van is held in place by a 10mm nut (with some sealant underneath-awkward!) and 3 screw bolts. They are not torx head they are like a 12 pointed star type of torx. I don’t have one of these but hope they are available. The plan would be to release the scissor on driver side (hopefully the sealant will not snag things up) and gently tap the scissor forward a few mm, retighten and see how it looks. Hopefully the side to side adjustment is not needed.
if anyone knows the star torx tool size that would be helpful and any other tips are gratefully welcome. Ps. It’s a bit breezy here today so I would not have attempted it today in any case

Those screws/bolts with 12 pointed star are Spline bolts. See here. Halford,eBay,Amazon,Screfix etc

https://community.screwfix.com/threads/torx-but-more-splines.216044/

 

[WelshGas]

Hi westfalia. The fiamma brackets were very good and fitted very snug To bodywork and moulding. You are right that front and back brackets are different. i don’t think that is the issue
welshgas. I think you are right. I checked today the scissors. They are adjustable front to back on the mounting brackets on the van and side to side on the mounting brackets on the roof. I checked the front/back delta and the driver side is back by about 3- 5mm Compared to passenger side. This may well be the cause of the slight misalignmen. There is no evidence or witness marks of slippage on the bracket or fittings. I suspect the roof has been like this since we bought it from vw but the tolerances made it unnoticeable until we tried to fit the awning bracket. The scissor to van is held in place by a 10mm nut (with some sealant underneath-awkward!) and 3 screw bolts. They are not torx head they are like a 12 pointed star type of torx. I don’t have one of these but hope they are available. The plan would be to release the scissor on driver side (hopefully the sealant will not snag things up) and gently tap the scissor forward a few mm, retighten and see how it looks. Hopefully the side to side adjustment is not needed.
if anyone knows the star torx tool size that would be helpful and any other tips are gratefully welcome. Ps. It’s a bit breezy here today so I would not have attempted it today in any case

The conundrum is which side to adjust?
Just 1 side, or both to even up the measurements.
You could do it by trial and error or take a photo of what you measured and ask others to take some measurements to give an idea of which side is out of alignment.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Stupid question...but as the problem with closing has only occurred since F45 awning was fitted. Are you sure that you have used the correct brackets?

 

[Blackdog]

Good question welshgas! I thought if I took a picture of the seal at the front side view this would help. On the driver side there is a gap of about 3mm on passenger it looks spot on (Not sure how these pictures compare to other vans)
my feeling is driver side rear scissor needs moving forward but would be nice to see a comparison with some one else’s van if someone could share

 

[Blackdog]

Ok. The next challenge. I have the spline socket. So it’s simply a case of loosening the screws and the nut and tapping the scissor forward a couple of mm’s. Right? Wrong! The scissor and holes have mastic underneath Them sticking it down. From back to front of the scissor there is first a stud and nut followed by 3 screws along it’s lenghth. it seems to be stuck approx 8 inches from the stud and towards the rear of the scissor. Any suggestions of how to lift so it can be moved?

 

[westfalia]

Good question welshgas! I thought if I took a picture of the seal at the front side view this would help. On the driver side there is a gap of about 3mm on passenger it looks spot on (Not sure how these pictures compare to other vans)
my feeling is driver side rear scissor needs moving forward but would be nice to see a comparison with some one else’s van if someone could share

View attachment 84770

View attachment 84771

Mine is a T5 though.

I have a 2.5mm difference, thats going to bug me now.

 

[westfalia]

Following this thread closely now.

 

[Blackdog]

Hi team. Any tips on how to disconnect the scissor hinge from the main body ie getting past the mastic is much appreciated. If I end up disconnecting completEly will the scissor hinge spring up? And if so is it easy to pull back down? Trying to preempt what might happen as working off step ladders and don’t want to left in the lurch!!

 

[Blackdog]

Welshgas. One further question. Are the rear scissor sprung at hinges or do they have free movement up and down. Could adjustment be done with roof partially lowered to remove tension ? I’m not sure how scissor is constructed

 

[Mr B]

I know it's great to do work on your own van but this seems like a job for a professional.

If you mess the roof up or put strain on the hydraulics and then don't get it sealed and aligned correctly you're going to cost yourself far more than asking VW or a Third party professional to do this adjustment at what would probably be an hour's labor for someone experienced with the correct tools and knowledge.

And if they mess it up they will have to pay to put it right.

Just my advice. You'll probably be fine.

Good luck!

 

[WelshGas]

Welshgas. One further question. Are the rear scissor sprung at hinges or do they have free movement up and down. Could adjustment be done with roof partially lowered to remove tension ? I’m not sure how scissor is constructed

I don't think so. I don't have the van with me at the moment. I would want to know if the elevated section has moved on the scissor mechanism or the scissor mechanism on the body. The sealant is to prevent water getting in through the bolt holes.

 

[Louis II]

Before trying to undo the scissor mechanism have you checked part number 18 on the diagram? The front scissor mechanism locates against it in the last stage of closing.
If you carefully mark its current position then loosen the grub screw it slides back and forth.
On mine I could tell it had moved as the grub screw had scored line in the aluminium rail.
Adjusting it got the roof closing properly again and seems to have worked for others since albeit with a slightly different issue.
Worth checking as it’s a really easy and nothing to loose if your mark the original position.