Pay off the mortgage and buy a motorhome...

[cpjb@btinternet.com]

Back to the original post. We opted to buy whilst we had a mortgage. Question of timing really. Wanted to do 4 or 5 major European tours with the kids before they decided they were too old to come with us any more.

 

[AlanH99]

I do not wholly disagree with what you say, but I think that you miss some important non-academic benefits of university.
- a gentle transition from the family home to independent living
- networking
- clubs and societies

And I disagree with you about leadership and interpersonal skills not being taught at university. Perhaps not always, but they are.

Bad choice of words by me. I should have said leadership and interpersonal skills are better learnt by doing rather than by teaching. Leading a bunch of apprentices when you are an older apprentice certainly teaches you how to communicate effectively, although it is more difficult now that you can't clip 'em round the ear (kidding).

University networking is often quoted as if networking doesn't happen outside or it is better. I don't see any difference. My first dozen jobs were found by calling contacts or them calling me.

By the time others were coming out of university I had a string of jobs I'd managed on my CV, and in my field experience counted more than qualifications.

Don't get me wrong, I think I would have enjoyed university and I'm not saying going to university is worse than not going, but, different careers require different items on the CV and I feel the current emphasis on a university education always being the favoured option might mean some will choose a career path that is not appropriate for them. I know many who believed a degree will always get you a better job. They now have a degree, lots of debt and a dead end job.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I consider myself lucky at 37 to have almost cleared my mortgage. I didn't go down the uni route, in-fact I barely got through secondary school.
I only ever wanted to see the world and play sports.
Worked hard when I was younger, learnt a skilled trade and avoided debt like the plague. Still do. I don't do credit.
Enjoy the simple things in life, bikes, surfing and meeting people.

I live within my means and avoid the temptation of keeping up with the joneses. That's the problem with modern society. People never seem happy with what they have.

As for property in this country. It's beyond un-fair and corrupt.
Second mortgages/buy to let schemes should be outlawed or so heavily taxed it becomes unfeasible for the majority to make anything out of the schemes.
Anyone with a spare few £££ jumps into property, pushing prices up un-fairly across the country.

I wish someone in power had the balls to do something about the buy-to-let mortgage system and increase house building to ease the short-fall of housing.

 

[T6 CFO]

I consider myself lucky at 37 to have almost cleared my mortgage. I didn't go down the uni route, in-fact I barely got through secondary school.
I only ever wanted to see the world and play sports.
Worked hard when I was younger, learnt a skilled trade and avoided debt like the plague. Still do. I don't do credit.
Enjoy the simple things in life, bikes, surfing and meeting people.

I live within my means and avoid the temptation of keeping up with the joneses. That's the problem with modern society. People never seem happy with what they have.

As for property in this country. It's beyond un-fair and corrupt.
Second mortgages/buy to let schemes should be outlaw or so heavily taxed it becomes unfeasible for the majority to make anything out of the schemes.
Anyone with a spare few £££ jumps into property, pushing prices up un-fairly across the country.

I wish someone in power had the balls to do something about the buy-to-let mortgage system and increase house building to ease the short-fall of housing.

I could not agree more.


Mike

 

[Amarillo]

As for property in this country. It's beyond un-fair and corrupt.
Second mortgages/buy to let schemes should be outlawed or so heavily taxed it becomes unfeasible for the majority to make anything out of the schemes.

I agree in part.

I see little justification in buy-to-let mortgage interest payments receiving tax relief, while residential mortgage interest payments do not.

However, buy-to-let, second homes and additional homes purchases are already taxed at 3% above normal stamp duty rates, and I do not fully understand to whom your proposed punitive tax scheme would apply. For example, would it apply to holiday lets, static homes, mobile homes, motor homes, campervans, caravans and tents? What about student halls of residence? Residential field study centres? Sheltered accommodation? Old people's homes and nursing homes?

What about people who inherit a property, would they be prevented from letting it out during a property slump and until house prices recover?

What about a husband and wife living separately but not divorced, would they be limited to just one home?

What about a young couple who each have a home but now want to share, would they be forced to sell or face your punitive tax?

I wish someone in power had the balls to do something about the buy-to-let mortgage system and increase house building to ease the short-fall of housing.

I think that here you have the crux of the matter. Developers have sacks loads of cash ready to build housing. Unfortunately, NIMBYism and planning regulations prevent them from doing so. Demonising buy-to-let landlords diverts attention from the real culprits - local government. Others prefer to blame EU migrants - again they have picked the wrong culprit.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Mobile homes, motor homes, care homes, student residence, hotels etc would not be classed as second homes. Some sense required.

It's fair to say each person has the right to a house. Therefore a married couple who part ways would both be able to own their own property.
As for people who inherit houses, usually these have no mortgages tied to them. So there isn't much you could do about it. Plus it isn't the major factor to our housing crisis.

The biggest problem is Buy-to-let mortgage schemes.
It would be easy to remove Buy-to-let mortgages completely to deter people borrowing money they don't have to purchase property and then re-let. Or perhaps Buy-to-let should only be available to those who have 65% deposit. This would reduce every Tom Dick & Harry with £30k snapping up affordable housing.

Agree about NIMBYism.
About time we tackled the problem head on and thought about building some new towns and cities. We still have plenty of countryside in Great Britain and we could help our children and their children by creating well planned and sustainable housing.

 

[julianjdj]

I have slightly different take on this. Some people cannot stand the thought of camping or camper-vanning. Others love it. My argument goes like this: For most of the time we live pretty luxurious lives, we've pampered ourselves over the years and many of us have a lot of possessions. As you get older there us a tendency to want to consolidate, de-clutter and simplify life. Paying off the mortgage is consolidation, buying a cali is a form of simplifying and de-cluttering (even though it is another possession). I certainly find that I have far fewer distractions when I am on the road, and far fewer things that need to be done (work or around the house). It's a relatively simple focused existence. Some people buy a second property and then wonder why they cant enjoy it: it's a repeat of their current existence in another place, sometimes with even more hassle. With a camper-van - it's a microcosm of your normal existence - and you are free to go anywhere you like when you like - that's liberating and refreshing. I find camper-vanning is a part of a form of stoicism (simplification and enjoyment of what you have) and it is a shared value for many of the people you meet on the road. It re-bases you so that you appreciate what you do have all the more.

 

[Wind Witch]

I have slightly different take on this. Some people cannot stand the thought of camping or camper-vanning. Others love it. My argument goes like this: For most of the time we live pretty luxurious lives, we've pampered ourselves over the years and many of us have a lot of possessions. As you get older there us a tendency to want to consolidate, de-clutter and simplify life. Paying off the mortgage is consolidation, buying a cali is a form of simplifying and de-cluttering (even though it is another possession). I certainly find that I have far fewer distractions when I am on the road, and far fewer things that need to be done (work or around the house). It's a relatively simple focused existence. Some people buy a second property and then wonder why they cant enjoy it: it's a repeat of their current existence in another place, sometimes with even more hassle. With a camper-van - it's a microcosm of your normal existence - and you are free to go anywhere you like when you like - that's liberating and refreshing. I find camper-vanning is a part of a form of stoicism (simplification and enjoyment of what you have) and it is a shared value for many of the people you meet on the road. It re-bases you so that you appreciate what you do have all the more.

Thank you. That sounds like an answer to my original question (or at least I can recognise my reasons for wanting a campervan at this time in life (that and the need for a comfier bed than could be provided in a tent at least )

 

[Amarillo]

The biggest problem is Buy-to-let mortgage schemes.
It would be easy to remove Buy-to-let mortgages completely to deter people borrowing money they don't have to purchase property and then re-let. Or perhaps Buy-to-let should only be available to those who have 65% deposit. This would reduce every Tom Dick & Harry with £30k snapping up affordable housing.

I am beginning to understand your gripe. It is not so much with second or additional homes, or private landlords, but with bank's being willing to loan people the cash for a second or additional home, or to become a private landlord.

As I previously inferred, the easiest step for government would be to remove mortgage interest tax relief for private landlords. Local government could also impose a business rate on private landlords (I see no reason why poorer heavier borrowing landlords should be penalised more than richer outright owner landlords.) Unfortunately, much of any additional cost to landlords is likely to be passed down to their tenants.

 

[Amarillo]

As I previously inferred, the easiest step for government would be to remove mortgage interest tax relief for private landlords. Local government could also impose a business rate on private landlords (I see no reason why poorer heavier borrowing landlords should be penalised more than richer outright owner landlords.) Unfortunately, much of any additional cost to landlords is likely to be passed down to their tenants.

Of course, the other tax second home owners (including buy-to-let landlords) face, is capital gains tax, and very often this is 40% due to the large one-off capital gain when the property is sold. (Business Asset Rollover Relief is not permitted on buy-to-let properties, but it is allowed on holiday lets.)

Example:
I paid £57,000 for my first property in 1990.
According to Zoopla It is now worth £348,000.
If sold now for Zoopla's value estimate, the capital gain would be £291,000.
Had it been purchased as a buy-to-let the tax payable for its sale, assuming tax allowances to 40% have been used for other income, would be a stonking £116,400, leaving £174,600 net profit, still a very healthy 5.5% average annual increase, but some way off the actual 7.2% average yearly increase in value.

 

[HectorPascal]

We all just seem to accept it. The size of the state as a percentage of GDP keeps growing decade after decade. The shrinking private sector has to keep paying. More and more.
There comes a point... err, and I might just be straying off it as bit.

 

[julianjdj]

Thank you. That sounds like an answer to my original question (or at least I can recognise my reasons for wanting a campervan at this time in life (that and the need for a comfier bed than could be provided in a tent at least )

Thanks Wind Witch. If you like this, you might like some more on modern stoicism - not sackcloth stuff! This is from a post I originally made on LinkedIn some time ago.

http://threnergy.com/home/stoicism-in-everyday-life

Regards

 

[VW Cali]

I can see how A level maths might be useful for a property investor but not reading maths at Cambridge. Has going to university made the difference between being successful and not?

Usual stuff one hears about on Radio.

First of all, the value of a good education is not necessarily a potential monetary value. It can be, and there are doubtless correlations, but many regard it is as value on its own.

Second, direct links as you pose above mean little. A lot of people study something else, and work in a different area. The seemimg irrelevant area of study doesn't necessarily hamper their skills. It may in fact even enhance it.

Certainly, mathematics and the harder sciences teach skills, and resilience, but above all an approach, that are greatly prized by employers of all types.

Why would a Cambridge maths graduate not go into property investment? I find this reveals a lack of understanding of the way the world currently works. Many investment management firms are run by people with degrees in technical subjects. To some degree this is a consequence of UK not taking advantage of its scientific and engineering talent. But it's also been a worldwide phenomenon.

In fact, many people in investment management have both undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. This doesn't mean they use mathematics when investing of course (though they could resort to it if needed).

On side note, I now see why Tom's posts are so clear headed!

 

[AlanH99]

Usual stuff one hears about on Radio.

First of all, the value of a good education is not necessarily a potential monetary value. It can be, and there are doubtless correlations, but many regard it is as value on its own.

Second, direct links as you pose above mean little. A lot of people study something else, and work in a different area. The seemimg irrelevant area of study doesn't necessarily hamper their skills. It may in fact even enhance it.

Certainly, mathematics and the harder sciences teach skills, and resilience, but above all an approach, that are greatly prized by employers of all types.

Why would a Cambridge maths graduate not go into property investment? I find this reveals a lack of understanding of the way the world currently works. Many investment management firms are run by people with degrees in technical subjects. To some degree this is a consequence of UK not taking advantage of its scientific and engineering talent. But it's also been a worldwide phenomenon.

In fact, many people in investment management have both undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. This doesn't mean they use mathematics when investing of course (though they could resort to it if needed).

On side note, I now see why Tom's posts are so clear headed!

Your post seems to be based on a misapprehension that I said a university education is of little value. That isn't what I said. I believe a university education isn't the best option for everyone, but that is quite different to what you have inferred.