Ocean Lifepo4 Victron 100ah X 2

[bico]

Has anyone tried to replace the two original service batteries (dimension 315x190x175)
with the victron 100ah lifepo4 (dimensions 321x197x152 )?

https://www.victronenergy.it/upload/documents/Datasheet-12,8-&-25,6-Volt-lithium-iron-phosphate-batteries-Smart-IT.pdf

it seems that there are 6 mm more in width and 7 mm more in height, do you think they fit?

 

[pluc99]

I recently read a few threads on this topic. I believe they had to install the under seat one sideways to make it fit. You should be able to find the discussion threads fairly easily with the search function.

 

[bico]

Thanks Pluc99,
i think i have read almost all the posts about lifepo4 batteries but i did not find anyone who installed victron 100ah, can you help me find the discussion? Thank you

 

[egena]

Thanks Pluc99,
i think i have read almost all the posts about lifepo4 batteries but i did not find anyone who installed victron 100ah, can you help me find the discussion? Thank you

Hi bico,
How did you get on with this? I'm about to order 2 x renogy 100ah as they're £580 each at the moment with self heating - £499 for without self heating. Amazing prices for an extremely well built battery offering.
Very keen to know how an install has gone with the Victron as the sizes and terminals are similarly placed.

Envoyé de mon SM-N981B en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Shadrack]

Hi bico,
How did you get on with this? I'm about to order 2 x renogy 100ah as they're £580 each at the moment with self heating - £499 for without self heating. Amazing prices for an extremely well built battery offering.
Very keen to know how an install has gone with the Victron as the sizes and terminals are similarly placed.

Envoyé de mon SM-N981B en utilisant Tapatalk

Hi Guys,
Sorry to raise this older thread, can I ask how we got on with the Lifepo4 upgrade thoughts/ideas?

I have recently added an air fryer(900w), low wattage kettle etc to my kitchen. Whilst abroad I generally go on hookup but the escalating prices on sites within the uk have focussed me to go 100% self sufficient.

As these LifePo4 batteries seem to becoming more useful with temperature range and inbuilt controllers (BMS) I am thinking of upgrading my two tiring leisure batteries. Also adding a more useful inverter to my Ocean, maybe a 2kw.

I have recently completed my winter project of adding 200w of solar with a Victron 75/15 controller so keeping batteries topped up should not be a problem.

Any thoughts ideas, or negatives would be of a great help to me In deciding if I should or best route. I think I have to upgrade my split charge relay as I have read in a couple of threads.

Thank you.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi Guys,
Sorry to raise this older thread, can I ask how we got on with the Lifepo4 upgrade thoughts/ideas?

I have recently added an air fryer(900w), low wattage kettle etc to my kitchen. Whilst abroad I generally go on hookup but the escalating prices on sites within the uk have focussed me to go 100% self sufficient.

As these LifePo4 batteries seem to becoming more useful with temperature range and inbuilt controllers (BMS) I am thinking of upgrading my two tiring leisure batteries. Also adding a more useful inverter to my Ocean, maybe a 2kw.

I have recently completed my winter project of adding 200w of solar with a Victron 75/15 controller so keeping batteries topped up should not be a problem.

Any thoughts ideas, or negatives would be of a great help to me In deciding if I should or best route. I think I have to upgrade my split charge relay as I have read in a couple of threads.

Thank you.

DC to DC charger, capable of charging Lithium batteries, in place of standard split charge relay.
Built in Mains charger may need changing .
If you have the old type Control Panel it should be OK but the new touch screen which monitors both batteries, I don't know.

 

[RSMarco]

DC to DC charger, capable of charging Lithium batteries, in place of standard split charge relay.
Built in Mains charger may need changing .
If you have the old type Control Panel it should be OK but the new touch screen which monitors both batteries, I don't know.

Hi, regarding changing the OE split charge relay to a DC to DC, do you know if this is a straight forward upgrade or do you need to upgrade the wiring etc? The post LOZ posted was very useful but I believe this was a specific kit developed for the Transporter. I was thinking more on the lines of the Victron DC to DC?

 

[yossarian]

Current devices basically fit into two categories:

• Voltage controlled.
• Remote switchable.

Your best bet is probably remote switchable which can then be activated by Volkswagen's split charge relay logic. Some may offer both options.

I'd also look at something I could reduce the charge current with to improve battery life. Bonus if it would keep my lifepo4 battery at 70% until commanded to full charge.

I doubt something with all these features exists.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi, regarding changing the OE split charge relay to a DC to DC, do you know if this is a straight forward upgrade or do you need to upgrade the wiring etc? The post LOZ posted was very useful but I believe this was a specific kit developed for the Transporter. I was thinking more on the lines of the Victron DC to DC?

I'm afraid I can't help you with those questions, but the California Vehicle electrical system is the same as a Transporter, many of which can have 1 factory fitted Auxiliary/Leisure battery from the factory.
You could send @Loz a PM and he may be able to clarify, or pose the question on the T6 Forum.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Hi Guys,
Sorry to raise this older thread, can I ask how we got on with the Lifepo4 upgrade thoughts/ideas?

I have recently added an air fryer(900w), low wattage kettle etc to my kitchen. Whilst abroad I generally go on hookup but the escalating prices on sites within the uk have focussed me to go 100% self sufficient.

As these LifePo4 batteries seem to becoming more useful with temperature range and inbuilt controllers (BMS) I am thinking of upgrading my two tiring leisure batteries. Also adding a more useful inverter to my Ocean, maybe a 2kw.

I have recently completed my winter project of adding 200w of solar with a Victron 75/15 controller so keeping batteries topped up should not be a problem.

Any thoughts ideas, or negatives would be of a great help to me In deciding if I should or best route. I think I have to upgrade my split charge relay as I have read in a couple of threads.

Thank you.

I use a solar generator (Bluetti 200AC MAX)

BLUETTI AC200MAX 2000W Portable Power Station 2048Wh LiFePO4 Solar Generator UK 630606446867 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BLUETTI AC200MAX 2000W Portable Power Station 2048Wh LiFePO4 Solar Generator UK at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

...for 2kWh of upto 2200w continuous output. It has it's own BMS so I plug the 200w solar panel directly into it when stationary and charge from the vehicle via the 12V input when driving. It cost less than what you are proposing with 2 x 100ah batteries and uses the same LiFePO4 lithium IRON (not ion) technology - good for 3000+ cycles.

All the convenience for micro, air fryer, TV, etc and none of the hassle, though a Jackery 1000 is half the cost and almost as good if you keep everything below 1000w output. Highly recommend this route rather than changing the DC/DC charger and batteries and cables / fuses, etc.

 

[Shadrack]

Hi,
Thank you for input guys, your suggestion of looking at T6 forum WelshGas was really helpful, some long and very detailed write ups. I burnt a lot of midnight oil and really discovered a lot on the subject. The first thing I need to do is get that split relay removed if only for the advantages that Loz has suggested. (Excellent write up, thanks Loz)
Also my reading confirms your suggestion RSMarco that I think the unit to replace this relay is the Victron TR Smart 12-12 30 which is fully programmable to correctly charge a Lithium unit.
Not sure on which lithiums yet, some good development in under-seat devices being used. Some cell units are straightforward swap outs with AGM. Not sure on these but the BMS circuitry is very sophisticated and may deal with the charging differences between the different technologies.
Lots more reading to do. I will get there.
But will definitely get the split charge swapped out in the meantime.
Thanks for now guys, I will update as I go along and maybe (sorry) ask for further help as I go. Also thanks to the alternative suggested methods.

 

[RSMarco]

I'm afraid I can't help you with those questions, but the California Vehicle electrical system is the same as a Transporter, many of which can have 1 factory fitted Auxiliary/Leisure battery from the factory.
You could send @Loz a PM and he may be able to clarify, or pose the question on the T6 Forum.

Hi, many thanks for the reply. I messages Loz sometime ago bit it seems Loz hasn't been on the forum for some time.

 

[RSMarco]

Hi,
Thank you for input guys, your suggestion of looking at T6 forum WelshGas was really helpful, some long and very detailed write ups. I burnt a lot of midnight oil and really discovered a lot on the subject. The first thing I need to do is get that split relay removed if only for the advantages that Loz has suggested. (Excellent write up, thanks Loz)
Also my reading confirms your suggestion RSMarco that I think the unit to replace this relay is the Victron TR Smart 12-12 30 which is fully programmable to correctly charge a Lithium unit.
Not sure on which lithiums yet, some good development in under-seat devices being used. Some cell units are straightforward swap outs with AGM. Not sure on these but the BMS circuitry is very sophisticated and may deal with the charging differences between the different technologies.
Lots more reading to do. I will get there.
But will definitely get the split charge swapped out in the meantime.
Thanks for now guys, I will update as I go along and maybe (sorry) ask for further help as I go. Also thanks to the alternative suggested methods.

Hi, please would you update the thread with your progress? Many thanks, Mark.

 

[Shadrack]

Hi, please would you update the thread with your ……

Hi, many thanks for the reply. I messages Loz sometime ago bit it seems Loz hasn't been on the forum for some time.

Before making my purchase of a Victron smart dc - dc I have to see where it can be fitted under the Pas seat. Seems a lot of sparky gubbins already lives there. Also from my reading the Victron unit does get a tad warm.

I will update as I progress and thanks again for your help and effort.

 

[RSMarco]

Before making my purchase of a Victron smart dc - dc I have to see where it can be fitted under the Pas seat. Seems a lot of sparky gubbins already lives there. Also from my reading the Victron unit does get a tad warm.

I will update as I progress and thanks again for your help and effort.

Agree.
I'm sure there is a thread on this forum where someone installed the Victron DC 2 DC under their passenger seat.

 

[Loz]

Hi, regarding changing the OE split charge relay to a DC to DC, do you know if this is a straight forward upgrade or do you need to upgrade the wiring etc? The post LOZ posted was very useful but I believe this was a specific kit developed for the Transporter. I was thinking more on the lines of the Victron DC to DC?

No need to upgrade the wiring, I would probably have gone for the Victron had it been available at the time.

 

[RSMarco]

No need to upgrade the wiring, I would probably have gone for the Victron had it been available at the time.

Excellent @Loz , many thanks.

 

[Kayleigh]

Do you definitely need to change the split charger? According to KS Energy, their LiFePo4 leisure batteries are a direct replacement.

Lead Replacement

Replacing a lead battery with a lithium battery. We examine the differences in detail.

www.ksenergy.co.uk

 

[Shadrack]

Do you definitely need to change the split charger? According to KS Energy, their LiFePo4 leisure batteries are a direct replacement.

Lead Replacement

Replacing a lead battery with a lithium battery. We examine the differences in detail.

www.ksenergy.co.uk

Loz did a great write up re the pros and cons of the split charger and from what I can see a fair few cons and just about zero’s by way of pro’s.

It was always my plan to replace after I finished my Phase one as I call it. Solar first then improve the vehicle charging system. So the split charge replace was to be my phase two even if I didn’t do my LifePo4 upgrade.

A lot of current suppliers do say that the charger has to be replaced even tho they are equipped with quite sophisticated BMS.

I don’t have the experience at this time to give the definitive answer to your question.
when the time comes for me to instal LifePo4 there will be more information available.
my caution would be. Just about any battery will charge if you sling a few volts at it, BUT how long would the battery last.

 

[Kayleigh]

Loz did a great write up re the pros and cons of the split charger and from what I can see a fair few cons and just about zero’s by way of pro’s.

It was always my plan to replace after I finished my Phase one as I call it. Solar first then improve the vehicle charging system. So the split charge replace was to be my phase two even if I didn’t do my LifePo4 upgrade.

A lot of current suppliers do say that the charger has to be replaced even tho they are equipped with quite sophisticated BMS.

I don’t have the experience at this time to give the definitive answer to your question.
when the time comes for me to instal LifePo4 there will be more information available.
my caution would be. Just about any battery will charge if you sling a few volts at it, BUT how long would the battery last.

Thanks for the response. I look forward to hearing how you progress with Phase 1 and 2.

 

[Shadrack]

Hi, please would you update the thread with your progress? Many thanks, Mark.

Hi Mark, update as promised. This is my Phase2
Firstly, a big thank you to all that have made suggestions to me on this thread and to those that have posted on the subject here on this forum as well as the T6 forum. All really helpful to me.

Well I have just finished the instal of the Victron DC-DC unit under the passenger seat. A bit of a shoe horn needed as the photos will show. one thing that stood out in my research was that many said the Victron runs pretty hot. Not ideal for a small enclosure.
I overcame this by making a mounting plate and angle support out of Alloy and mounting the charger to this using plenty of thermal conductor paste to help transfer any localised heat.
Main consideration was to allow enough space at the lower end for air to flow through the sink to the alloy.
Another consideration was to keep all vw cables and assemblies untouched so that all original components can go back Should I wish in the future.
All additional wiring is 16mm2.
I have more or less followed Loz’s instructions and setup using an insulated post and additional fuse holder. Instructions on battery disconnect sequence etc followed to a ’T’ (thank you Loz)

I have done a little testing after hammering the batteries (diesel heater & fridge on full for a while). As photos show it charges full, greater than 20amp charge on CP display. Little or no heat felt on the charger or heat sink. Will do more monitoring and mount a temp probe on the sink to monitor for a while.

I have set battery type to spiral agm On charger, also I have left the little plug in link located under charger. I hope this is correct.
I am not 100% sure on the other settings in the Victron App, I think I have a smart Alternator so set that.
If anyone could help me out with photos of correct or best settings for the AGM batts, or advise it would be useful. Ta.
I will include some pics of my current settings when next in camper.

Again, i have read so many posts on this subject so a big thank you to all, without that knowledge from so many, I could never have started this project.

Phase 3 will be the lifePo4 upgrade on the leisure’s.

 

[Shadrack]

These are the pics of my current settings, I think I have them correct. Basically it is more or less the default for Agm.
Last two pics showing both solar and charger devices+ current engine charge status with engine running (No sun, camper in garage)

Any advice or suggestions on the settings would be appreciated if they are incorrec.

Thank you again to all input and help received.

 

[yossarian]

Why not just connect your split charge relay input to the Victron Orion unit as shown in the Victron manual? Just needs a single wire to the Left side of the two pin connector.

You retain all the VW on / off logic.

 

[Shadrack]

Why not just connect your split charge relay input to the Victron Orion unit as shown in the Victron manual? Just needs a single wire to the Left side of the two pin connector.

You retain all the VW on / off logic.

View attachment 108529

Thank you for pointing that out Yossarian, I think I understand this a little more now. Initially I did see that in the manual but bypassed it as not fully understanding it’s use at the time, thinking its not necessary as the Victron does sense engine run.
but as you have pointed out this trigger wire will work with the vw start stop etc.

If I understand correctly, I connect the signal wire from the now redundant split charge activation plug and connect to terminal ‘L’ with the little link between ‘L’ & ‘H’ removed.
There are two wires in the original split charge plug, a brown and black. Is the trigger/activation wire the black one, the other brown being the earth, or do I have that the wrong way around. Can you tell me if I need to make any tweaks or changes to the Victron settings when this connection is made?

Thanks again Yossarian really helpful.

 

[yossarian]

Thank you for pointing that Yossarian, I think I understand this a little more now. Initially I did see that in the manual but bypassed it as not fully understanding it’s use at the time, thinking its not necessary as the Victron does sense engine run.
but as you have pointed out this trigger wire will work with the vw start stop etc.

If I understand correctly, I connect the signal wire from the now redundant split charge activation plug and connect to terminal ‘L’ with the little link between ‘L’ & ‘H’ removed.
There are two wires in the original split charge plug, a brown and black, is the trigger/activation wire the black one, the other brown being the earth, or do I have that the wrong way around. can you tell me if I need to make any tweaks or changes to the Victron settings when this connection is made?

Thanks again Yossarian really helpful.

In the diagram I can find (which is 2009 -) it looks like the black wire. See attached.