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caligraphy

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I'm curious as to why so many buy new Californias, especially given the outrageous cost for what is, after all, just a VW Camper. That first 3 years from new costs a fair whack of depreciation just to get that new car smell. So here I will spell out my case for a used Cali and allow other members to present their arguments for a new one (or indeed, some may wish to add support to my argument).

I just don't see the appeal of a new car. Is it the status of being able to afford the "ker-chink" of cash hitting the kerb as it drives out of the yard for the first time, £10k less valuable than it was thirty seconds ago and just ten minutes away from its first supermarket car park rash ? Perhaps it's the endless factory built-in failures and recalls that plague a new California, meaning it'll spend much of its early life at the Dealer's workshop ? Or is it the knowledge that those ridiculously expensive options will depreciate even faster than the car itself, leaving owners wondering whether they really needed the genuine faux leather rear view mirror surrounds with California motif that came with the optional Luxury Tack package.

If it's the assurance of a warranty that appeals then an extended warranty can easily be bought to cover a second-hand model.

Essentially the California hasn't changed since Westfalia produced the T4 California (LHD only) for VW some 20 years ago. When VW took over production of the Californiafrom Westfalia with the introduction of theT5 they struggled to improve on a design that had been perfected over many decades*, but still their marketing people managed to come up with a whole bunch of unnecessary options to justify a huge price hike. Brighter colours, slicker materials, electric everything. It certainly looked the part and in their bedazzlement no-one really noticed that nothing had actually changed.

In 2004 I bought a 2001 T4 California which I kept for 6 years then in 2010 I sold it for a 2007 T5 California which I kept for 8 years. Both were bought for a mere 50% of their new cost. Both lost nothing but inflation and were sold for what I originally paid for them. In both cases they had frustrated their original owners with problems within the warranty period, particularly the T5, whereas they spent little time in the workshop during my ownership.

I bought the T5 because the T4 engine only produced 102 BHP and the T5 with a tuning box produced twice that, otherwise I'd have happily kept the T4. It had the same layout as the T5 (or the T6) that Westfalia had perfected over many years. It carried 260,000kms when I sold it and it drove like new. It was very comfortabke to drive, it had the faimiliar captain's chairs, awning, table, cupboards, beds, sink, stove, fridge and storage layouts. Brandrup even sold a host of over-priced after-market gadgets for it, many of which they re-purposed for the later T5 and T6. The spring loaded roof never relied on hydraulics or electrics, it never caught its bellows in the canvas, never failed or asked to be returned to the workshop and it popped up or down with one hand in just seconds. The screen and buttons never failed, the roof never corroded, the parking heater worked and the 2.5TDi engine in the T4 was bullet proof. Of course the 2.5TDi engine in the T5 wasn't quite as robust and 2 litre unit in the T5.2 even less so, as VW attempted to minimise their parts catalogue by fitting a modified Golf engine. The jury's out on what surprises the T6 engines will bring.

So given the main function of a camper is to.....well, camp, choosing a new California over one from the last 20 years is not really going to bring about additional comforts. The instruments may be more modern and they may be nicer to drive with more safety features but the T4 would hold its own over a T6 when it came to pitching up and camping. Finally, the older ones are funkier with far more street cred.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad so may folks buy new as they pay the massive depreciation that allows me to buy the same car for half the price three years later. I just wonder why they choose to be so generous to a complete stranger. The least I can do is make them a cup of tea.

*Westfalia was a very old camper conversion company in the German state of Westphalia that dated back almost to the last war. I onece visited their wonderful company museum that showed the evolution of the camper from it's humble beginnings in the early 50s. It was the best collection of campers I've ever seen. Unfortunately they went bankrupt in 2010 and sold the entire collection piece by piece for the princely sum of 200,000 euros, including selling an original 1953 T1 Camperbox with just 41 miles on the clock for 41,000 euros.
 
We typically don't buy a new vehicles unless there is a considerable incentive. We lost too much money on new vehicles over the years to care.

We bought the California new as I was happy with the deal and for £3k more I got the vehicle I wanted.

The price of the California has shot somewhat upwards since we bought in mid 2015 (I wonder why??). Are we prepared to pay 63k , 65k or 70k for the same vehicle. No, we're not, even though we have the funds.
 
Lucky for us someone buys the new one, takes the depreciation hit which gives us cheapskates the opportunity to own one for less?
Second hand, pre loved or whatever you want to call it can mean a plethora of hook up leads, levelling ramps, sorta potties ( if that's (not) your 'bag'), roof toppers and seat covers etc. often thrown in. We found a good one, we saved £loads of money.......
Credit here to Mick Ronson or am I confusing Rik Mayall with Harry Enfield........They made some interesting motor cycles.


You know what, it's a free world, you pays your money.........

:cheers
 
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My previous Cali I sold after two years and I lost just £5k on it, so I am not sure where you get £10k from as you leave the dealer forecourt ? This would maybe be the case on a Range Rover or similar but not a Cali, they possibly have the best residuals of any vehicle on the road.

The main reason I bought new is I wanted a certain spec and did not want to compromise plus I wanted the 5 year warranty so it was a no brainer.
 
What I dont understand is why the OP keeps changing for a newer used version. He could still have a T2 which would have appreciated and because it hasnt got half the spangly stuff it cannot go wrong but insists on buying the next newer used one. However he insists on throwing money away to have the latest used one.
I should buy him a beer for buying the old ones at such a high price so I can have a new one every two years.

Actually I bought a new one because its really is cheaper than a near new used and has the things i want to pay for and not stuff I dont. Also it has the latest roof fix - sooner or later it may get fixed !

If you can then you do.
 
What a strange post...

If nobody bought the new ones, how on earth would the OP have been able to grab so many of the used ones at such bargain prices?

Choices are there to be made by whomever for whatever reason - some people don't want to drive (let alone sleep) in something has been driven (or slept in) before. For us, we went for a demo originally, due to the depreciation on new vehicles, and ultimately the budget we had set ourselves.

Unfortunately, our much loved demo Dudley, turned out to be an absolute nightmare of a vehicle with multiple problams cropping up. Between ourselves, and the dealership, VWUK and some compensation, we came to a very good deal on a new one which we are now waiting for. Had we not have had all the issues with the our 'used' original Cali, we wouldn't have stretched to the price of a new one, so it's turned out well for us.

Personally, having bought new cars before, I quite like the smell. Anyone else bought new because of the smell? :Iamsorry
 
I'd be more inclined to offer a counter argument if the original case for the defence didn't have so many holes in it.

Never realised you can buy a three year old Cali "for a mere 50% of their new cost"? Silly me for paying so much.... :rolleyes:
 
I like a new car.

We're super-frugal in almost every other purchase but when your job relies on getting to places or you live somewhere you don't fancy breaking down, it's best to keep a fairly newish vehicle, so that's what I've sorted over the last 25 years. It's worked well for us.

Slightly used doesn't really work in the Cali market, not enough of an incentive to buy & some we saw (at a dealers) were tatty. Pre-reg hunting was more productive.
 
It's like with all things we buy every day ....
Everything we want is availeble 2nd hand and refurbisched still 9/10 people want to buy new.
Furniture , clothings , tools , electronic devices ,....
But as said above , if nobody buys new there's no 2nd hand...
So indeed a wierd post , he's been online since posting but not took the effort to respond the many reactions.
 
from that I obviously made a mistake buying new when I could have saved 50% and only spent £30K
 
Funnily enough, I had this discussion with OH last night. A guy on a gameshow said he'd buy a campervan for 10k if he won the prize & I commented good luck.

I've seen conversions in that ballpark but they tend to be rough, old & have massive mileages. I'll have to see if I can find a Cali for that...
 
For those who missed the toungue in cheek nature of my OP, I suggest you can ignore it if it offends your sensibilities. I am genuinely interested in why and what people like to buy and their experiences but I'm certainly not passing judgement.

Used values are very high at the moment thanks to the tumble of the pound so I won't be buying in the present environment.
 
It's like with all things we buy every day ....
Everything we want is availeble 2nd hand and refurbisched still 9/10 people want to buy new.
Furniture , clothings , tools , electronic devices ,....
But as said above , if nobody buys new there's no 2nd hand...
So indeed a wierd post , he's been online since posting but not took the effort to respond the many reactions.
I assume you meant a 'weird' post. That's your opinion. I think it's been quite effective in eliciting responses

There is no lack of effort to respond on my part. I have nothing more to add. I wrote in the OP that I would be interested in peoples' responses and I have read those with interest. Some took offence. Some attacked me personally with snide comments. Some disagreed with my assumptions. Many simply explained why they took the purchase option they did and thus added to the discussion.
 
Its the way you worded your OP that has created some of the responses you have got, as if to say anyone that buys new is an idiot!
 
What I dont understand is why the OP keeps changing for a newer used version. He could still have a T2 which would have appreciated and because it hasnt got half the spangly stuff it cannot go wrong but insists on buying the next newer used one. However he insists on throwing money away to have the latest used one.
I should buy him a beer for buying the old ones at such a high price so I can have a new one every two years.

Actually I bought a new one because its really is cheaper than a near new used and has the things i want to pay for and not stuff I dont. Also it has the latest roof fix - sooner or later it may get fixed !

If you can then you do.

I appreciate your replying in the same slightly tongue in cheek vein as my OP . Your reasoning is perfectly valid and just because I wouldn't buy a new Cali doesn't mean others shouldn't. It's a free world. Someone needs to get Calis into circulation. Enjoy your new ride.

ps. I did indeed have a T2 in Oz but the engine died. Not that you'd notice. It struggled to pull the skin off a rice custard. Even then I sold it for a couple of hundred more than I bought it for. Yes please for that beer.
 
I think the OP should be looking for a therapist not a 2nd hand Cali. If that was ‘tongue in cheek’ and an attempt to learn why some of us do what we do, god help us if he ever turns serious and tries to lecture us.
 
Its the way you worded your OP that has created some of the responses you have got, as if to say anyone that buys new is an idiot!
Not at all. No offence was intended but people will read into the OP whatever they wish. They can ignore it too

I gave reasons why I wouldn't buy new. I even exaggerated some for emphasis (10K at the forecourt is an obvious exaggeration but the point is still valid). I was genuinely interested in reasons why people would buy new. Quite a few gave honest answers and I'm grateful for that.
 
@caligraphy , it's nothing personal and i agree on some of your views but it seems (by the responds) others also find it a weird post ( thanks for pointing me out my spelling fault , englisch is not my native language )
Think this kind of threads are a never ending story and compomises are hard to find.
I hope you get your asnwers .
Btw , i did not buy new , as in orderd myself , i got a showroommodel with few km. on and did not get to chose any options. Still happy now 6y later . 2nd hand prices are crazy .
 
I think the OP should be looking for a therapist not a 2nd hand Cali. If that was ‘tongue in cheek’ and an attempt to learn why some of us do what we do, god help us if he ever turns serious and tries to lecture us.
Too subtle for you ? No need for a personal attack. Just choose to ignore.
 
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