How to make a Beach handle more load on the roof

[kave]

In another thread https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...-and-inflatable-sup-secure.43694/#post-567080, we discussed where to mount an inflatable sup. @Ch1pbutty suggested to mount stronger gas struts and mount the sup on the roof. I ordered two gas struts from https://www.hinscha.com/en/p/gas-spring-t5-t6-california-600n and replaced the originals yesterday.
We have two solar panels on the roof already and in winter the original struts have a hard time keeping the fabric stretched.
Both the original struts and the replacements are longer than they can be when roof is up so they need to be compressed to be able to mount them. I tried with bands and clamps which worked out ok.

Now the roof easily stays up with both roof panels up and I am sure I can have a roof rack and an inflatable sup there as well.

 

[soulstyledevon]

This guy has modded his beach quite a lot. Worth having a look @kave

 

[kave]

Only one video?

 

[soulstyledevon]

Only one video?

Yes.
I think he's only just started that side of things.
Have a look at his Instagram posts

 

[Tarquers]

How much difference has it made to the opening and closing process? Look forward to pictures of testing a bit more weight (So I don’t have to!)

 

[WelshGas]

How much difference has it made to the opening and closing process? Look forward to pictures of testing a bit more weight (So I don’t have to!)

I'd be more concerned when there isn't much weight and it's summer and 30c.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

In another thread https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...-and-inflatable-sup-secure.43694/#post-567080, we discussed where to mount an inflatable sup. @Ch1pbutty suggested to mount stronger gas struts and mount the sup on the roof. I ordered two gas struts from https://www.hinscha.com/en/p/gas-spring-t5-t6-california-600n and replaced the originals yesterday.
We have two solar panels on the roof already and in winter the original struts have a hard time keeping the fabric stretched.
Both the original struts and the replacements are longer than they can be when roof is up so they need to be compressed to be able to mount them. I tried with bands and clamps which worked out ok.

Now the roof easily stays up with both roof panels up and I am sure I can have a roof rack and an inflatable sup there as well.

Hi, Looking at switching mine over this weekend now the wind has now dropped!

Plan to use combination of cable ties & hooked ratchet strap to compress the rod. Had a quick look a minute go and looks easier to remove the two brackets from the roof (star nuts), attach new rods to brackets & then reattach brackets to the roof/van body.

Did you use the the existing VW threaded ‘nipple’ on the mounts as the supplied ones look slightly different?

 

[B J G]

The roof section isn't designed as a load carrier and merely fitting stronger struts could result in the attachment points either cracking or failing completely.

There is also the legal implications of carrying a load outside of the design specification, both from Insurance point and Construction and Use specification.

 

[kave]

Hi, Looking at switching mine over this weekend now the wind has now dropped!

Plan to use combination of cable ties & hooked ratchet strap to compress the rod. Had a quick look a minute go and looks easier to remove the two brackets from the roof (star nuts), attach new rods to brackets & then reattach brackets to the roof/van body.

Did you use the the existing VW threaded ‘nipple’ on the mounts as the supplied ones look slightly different?

You remove the hole damper including the female part of the ball joint. The male part is threaded on both but totally different. If you look closely you will see there is a “stop” that you need to lift on the inside if the ball joint. Then you just slide it off with little force. The new has different stops that you remove before installing. I recommend supporting the roof on the inside on both sides. Compress the old damper just a little and its easy to remove. You only need to put something on the lower part, on the top you just put a band arround the top part of the strut securing it with a cable tie. I practised on the new first so I new how much force was required. They need to compress about 10 cm.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

The roof section isn't designed as a load carrier and merely fitting stronger struts could result in the attachment points either cracking or failing completely.

There is also the legal implications of carrying a load outside of the design specification, both from Insurance point and Construction and Use specification.

VW Technical gives 50kg max roof load (incl roof bar weight) for a pop top.

Would be useless as a surf wagon if it didn’t let you put boards on top.

 

[ArunAlec]

VW Technical gives 50kg max roof load (incl roof bar weight) for a pop top.

Would be useless as a surf wagon if it didn’t let you put boards on top.

View attachment 89656

I’ve never understood the second para which says “each mount … 50kg”. Any idea what they mean by a “mount”? Doesn’t seem to tally with the first para.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I’ve never understood the second para which says “each mount … 50kg”. Any idea what they mean by a “mount”? Doesn’t seem to tally with the first para.

‘Mount’ is the combined weight of the roof carrier (feet&bars) and the actual load being carried. So they might as well call it ‘roof load limit’ as in para 1.

 

[owen_h]

50kg for each Mount makes more sense when thinking about the fixed roof vans. To make full use of their 150kg roof limit the load should be spread using 3 bars is the way I read it.
For our lifting roofs it’s irrelevant as the total roof limit is 50kg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kave]

I bought a Thule Wanderway 2 in the end. Now I have the choice of inflated sup on roof or in bag on the Thule:

 

[Greg VW Belgium]

Hi all! @kave thanks for the post! I just joined the forum because I landed on it and it's very useful! I am a new 6.1 Coast (manual roof) owner and I am using a Thule roof box on Thule wingbars to store by kite/wing gear. I have the same problem as many mentioned: when the roof box is full (always below 50kg though), the roof doesn't stay up even if I put the box as much at the back of the roof as possible.

I have read everything I could and landed on this post. So I'm considering buying those hinscha gas springs https://www.hinscha.com/en/p/gas-spring-t5-t6-california-600n Looking at the post and responses, it looks like the replacement procedure should be:
1) Pop up the roof and find a way to keep it up and symmetrical while changing the struts. I guess that the good way to do it is using wooden sticks to support it in several places. Any advices on this?
2) Start by removing one strut: I guess that you need to find a way to keep it compressed while unscrewing one side (e.g. the top) so that it doesn't extend and damage something as the bolt becomes loose?
3) To install the new strut the first picture is pretty telling: you need a set of tools (bands and clamps) to keep the strut compressed while screwing the top side. @kave I'm trying to understand what the blue band is attached to at the top. Is it the same anchor point as for the strut itself?
4) Redo 2 and 3 for the second side of the roof

Is that correct? Any advice that will help me not make a whole in the roof fabric, or worse, the roof itself? Thank you!

 

[kave]

Hello.
1. Yes, I used a paper roll from a carpet cut to size and a leg from a tripod inside the van, you place it in front where it is flat under the front window of the bellow.
2. Yes, in fact the worst is to compress the new struts since they are stronger and you need the compressed so they fit into the space.
3. The blue band is just tied around the mount in the roof, the underside of the strut is not easy to attach a band so I used a clamp with cloth to attach to the bottom part of the strut.
4. Yes

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Used a couple of these to stop the roof from dropping, also attached a roof rack strap internally to stop the roof from lifting / twisting as each new side strut is attached (to internal roof handle / headrest)

Bessey ST125 ST Telescopic... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0719CWPDF/?tag=vwcalifornia-21

Hardest thing is compressing the struts, but can easily be done with ratchet strap…I used a bit of bike inner tube under the fabric on the ratchet strap, as the tip of the roof strut will eventually want to make a hole in the ratchet strap.

 

[Greg VW Belgium]

Thank you both for the info, things are clear now. I think I understand the setup to put in place while making the change (to keep the roof up). And the major difficulty seems to be to compress the new hinscha struts as they are mounted into place. A ratchet strap + inner bike tube as suggested by @Ch1pbutty seems to be a good solution.

Last question: Hinscha says that those struts are suited for T5/T6. Does anyone know if they will fit a T6.1 roof? I want to make sure there's no difference in all the elements of the mechanical roof (all dimensions of the struts, size of bolts, etc...)

 

[Greg VW Belgium]

Hi again,

I finally took the time to change the struts and thanks to the info I found here, everything went smooth. This page (and especially the pictures) really helped too: https://www.dalacalifornia.se/hinscha-580n-for-higher-roof-loads/

The Hinscha 600N struts are great. I can now easily leave a full roof box on the roof while it's popped and it holds very well. I was a bit worried that it would be hard to fold the roof back without anything on it, but it folds back quite easily too when you pull on the roof bar (I weigh 75kg). I was also worried that popping it up with the roof empty could be a problem (it may go fast and rip the tent fabric apart), but it's not the case at all. It pops up pretty slowly. Everything feels very secure. Of course you do feel that the Hinscha struts are more powerful than the originals, but it is far from being a problem.

Here is some basic advice I can give:

• You can't do it alone. You need to be 2 throughout the process
• The most difficult part is to compress the Hinscha struts to fit them in
• I was worried that if you compress the new struts and for whatever reason (e.g. ratchet strap breaks) it decompresses back abruptly it could be dangerous but it's not the case, it decompresses rather slowly. I don't think there's any danger of hurting yourself when compressing it with the ratchet strap. Of course you need to do it carefully as there is quite some tension in the strap during the process.

For those who are contemplating at making the switch to Hinscha struts themselves, here is a more detailed guide:

1. Pop up the roof as you normally do
2. Support the roof with two large poles: you will change the struts one after the other. While removing one strut and replacing it with the Hinscha you need the roof to be supported on that side of the van. I placed two 2.5m poles that hold the metallic bar of the roof on one side and stand on the driver and passenger's seats' floor. I stabilized them with wooden triangles so they don't move
3. Remove the original strut: the first thing you need to do is to remove the metallic caps/brackets on each side of the strut. This picture really helped me (source: https://www.t5calif.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&start=30&t=4683)You need to place a flat screwdriver in the crack which is at the back (on the side of the tent fabric) and gently tap it with a hammer for the bracket to fall off. Once done, use a ratchet strap to compress the strut. It is quite easy to do this even if you are alone. Make a loop around the strut and compress it with the ratchet. After a few ratchet clicks the strut simply falls off while the little balls on each side stay:
4. Placing the Hinscha strut: it comes with two ball screws on each side and two pins that secure those ball screws in the strut. First remove the two pins that hold the balls inside the strut and make sure you don't lose them as they need to be placed back when the strut is in place. Remove the Hinsha ball screws, you won't need them as the old ball screws are already there as I show in the pictures above. Place the bottom of the Hinscha strut on the bottom ball, clip it in and secure it with the pin. Now comes the difficult part: you need to compress the strut with a ratchet strap (as you did when removing the original strut), but the pressure you need to apply has to be much higher (that's the whole purpose of the new struts). The extra difficulty is that when you compress it you need to make sure that the hole into which the top ball screw will clip cannot be obstructed by the ratchet strap. It's not that easy. We managed to do it by folding the ratchet strap in two like this:
   One person was tightening the ratchet strap while the other needed to guide the strap around the top to make sure that the strap fabric doesn't hide the hole. we found that the best way to do this was to place the ratchet itself (metallic part) quite close to the bottom. The bottom of the strap goes between the strut which we already placed and the bottom ball screw, so there is no danger of it sliding and decompressing the strut.
   
   Slowly compress the strut by tightening the strap making sure the hole stays fully open. You need to compress about 7cm. When it is compressed enough, simply plug the top ball screw in the compressed strut, put the pin back in to secure the ball inside the strut and slowly make the ratchet strap loose. At that point you'll probably have the support pole become loose and fall as the new strut will have more power to push the roof away from the van, releasing the support pole.
   
   
5. Repeat the exact same process for the other side and you're done!

Hopefully it can help some of you!

Cheers from Belgium

 

[Tall Andrew]

Hinsche have increased their range now. You can get a 580 600 650 750 800 nm

I‘ve tried fixing a pair of Thule wing bars 1.5 kg Thule touring box 15 kg 2 lounge style chairs 15kg (x2) foot extensions 1,1kg (x2) leveling wedges 4 kg ground sheets and carpets approx 5kg so total 42,3kg

Saw video posted early in this thread, in his other video he lifts his rack only with the 800´s that was a much bigger rack.

was thinking 650 then would be sufficient and leave me some extra lift for a solar setup when I have time and funds to instal that.

Maxx camp do a support pole to stop risk of roof dropping.

Support Pole for Pop Up Roof | | Shop | MAXXCAMP

www.maxxcamp.de

 

[kurienp]

Hinsche have increased their range now. You can get a 580 600 650 750 800 nm

I‘ve tried fixing a pair of Thule wing bars 1.5 kg Thule touring box 15 kg 2 lounge style chairs 15kg (x2) foot extensions 1,1kg (x2) leveling wedges 4 kg ground sheets and carpets approx 5kg so total 42,3kg

Saw video posted early in this thread, in his other video he lifts his rack only with the 800´s that was a much bigger rack.

was thinking 650 then would be sufficient and leave me some extra lift for a solar setup when I have time and funds to instal that.

Maxx camp do a support pole to stop risk of roof dropping.

Support Pole for Pop Up Roof | | Shop | MAXXCAMP

www.maxxcamp.de

I would go with the support pole any day. Less hassle and very easy to manage and store.

 

[Tall Andrew]

Agreed, I would sleep better with a physical rod to stop it sagging slowly down and killing me in my sleep. Still need some help raising the roof though, an extra 42,5kg was very hard to lift on standard dampers. There’s just no way to know which damper will be sufficient other than trial and error.

 

[Tall Andrew]

I did eventually find the terranger website which had recommendations for roof load and damper combinations. I chose a 590nm damper and made a video of the job. In my test it works well with my 45-50kg load. Hope it’s helpful info.