Home Electricity & Costs - what are you doing?

[Digger]

Scotland Has a much colder time than Hampshire and our friends house which is modern and well insulated struggles to reach 18° with their Mitsubishi air source pump. Too many properties are unsuitable and that is from an installer who was honest. There is no simple solution but air source is not the answer for the majority.

 

[johnyboy]

There are also a lot of people who have inherited them or had poor handover - things like I was advised e.g. only dropping back a maximum of 2 degrees overnight (20 daytime 18 night time) otherwise the efficiency is terrible as it tries to catch up rather than just keeping a stable temperature as designed seem to be something others were not told. This is why some owners/inheritors would do well to study heatgeek's free youtube content to maximise their efficiency

 

[Wildcamper]

I don’t think it can be done. You can store DC power but not AC.

Course you can charge a battery from the AC grid. That is how you charge your car battery via a charging unit that converts AC to DC.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

We have oil central heating which we rarely use….. however we do have a modern wood burner in the lounge and a big supply of free wood so we have been heating the whole house (well, small 2 bed single story semi detached cottage) with just the fire. I have been amazed at how well it works….super warm and toasty in the lounge, just right in the main bedroom and a little bit cooler elsewhere. We keep the through doors open and let the stove go out at bedtime then relight again in the morning.

The downside to all of this is that the burner needs feeding about once an hour……. I feel a bit like the stoker on an old steam train!

View attachment 102929

(please excuse the unfinished look, it’s all work in progress )

We found that the addition of a stove top fan really helps to move the heat around.

 

[Velma's Dad]

We found that the addition of a stove top fan really helps to move the heat around.

Snap. Mine is a very cute Stirling engine from Warp 5 and was a pressie from Mrs VD, but you can also find much more reasonably priced thermo-electric ones.

 

[chockswahay]

Snap. Mine is a very cute Stirling engine from Warp 5 and was a pressie from Mrs VD, but you can also find much more reasonably priced thermo-electric ones.

Oh they DO appeal …… apart from the price however (Well done Mrs VD)

 

[chockswahay]

So team, on the basis that I can not justify the super sexy fan that @Velma's Dad has would anyone recommend a more modestly priced alternative? (@GrumpyGranddad what do you have?)

 

[larrylamb]

So team, on the basis that I can not justify the super sexy fan that @Velma's Dad has would anyone recommend a more modestly priced alternative? (@GrumpyGranddad what do you have?)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00748I2MO/?tag=eliteelect-21
generic fan on Amazon, we've had this one working for over 8 years.

 

[Wildcamper]

We have used wood stoves for 40 years, now on our second as we wore the original out. The fan is great.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Everyone's a fan of the fan.

 

[chockswahay]

I’m leaning towards this one because our wood burner is not very big on the top….
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0B3MF5VHR/?tag=eliteelect-21

edit: or more likely
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VNDWWZW/?tag=eliteelect-21

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

So team, on the basis that I can not justify the super sexy fan that @Velma's Dad has would anyone recommend a more modestly priced alternative? (@GrumpyGranddad what do you have?)

Can’t remember the make @chockswahay and it’s too hot to check right now
I’ll have a look in the morning when it’s cold.

 

[Wildcamper]

So team, on the basis that I can not justify the super sexy fan that @Velma's Dad has would anyone recommend a more modestly priced alternative? (@GrumpyGranddad what do you have?)

Amazon and eBay do seem to overprice their stove fans. We found what I think is a good bargain at a local forge Cherrington Forge near Tetbury (not too helpful for those in Scotland!) Ours was £24 but the same fan on Amazon was over £30. Maybe you have a local forge near you that is reasonably priced.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Yes, I have been doing it with tesla for years, timed charging from the grid in the winter was the only way the payback period was the same as the warranty period there are more on the market now too, various capacities.

Year to date, I have used 1077kwh of electricity from the grid at a cost of £247.14. Obviously things took a turn for the worse from October and now paying 44.2p per kWh for day units, 11.17p night and 45.85p per day standing charge.
From your experience, and without putting you to any bother, do you think there would be a payback for me with a storage battery ?

 

[andyinluton]

Pretty easy to work out, the quickest payback would be if you currently use 100% day tariff and the battery let you use 100% night tariff. In that case the saving you would make would be 45.8p less 11.17p= 34.6p per KWh x 1077 per year = £372.96 saving.
That’s at todays prices x last years consumption and is the absolute maximum theoretical saving.
Any future saving are dependant on the gap between the night rate and day rate being maintained. If the gap increases you will save more, if it shrinks, less.
Only thing we need to know now is how much the battery costs?

 

[trev0rk]

My 5.2kw solar battery arrives in a month, so it will charge from solar panels on sunny days and economy 7 over night.
Panels were fitted in 2013, I have finally got my money back from FIT, and have some free electricity for much of the year and hot water with an immersun.
We also have an ancient storage heater in the living room which costs £1.50 per night to charge and provides background heat all through the day. Much cheaper than heating the whole house (23 rads and 2 condenser boilers).

 

[Mansfieldman750]

My 5.2kw solar battery arrives in a month, so it will charge from solar panels on sunny days and economy 7 over night.
Panels were fitted in 2013, I have finally got my money back from FIT, and have some free electricity for much of the year and hot water with an immersun.
We also have an ancient storage heater in the living room which costs £1.50 per night to charge and provides background heat all through the day. Much cheaper than heating the whole house (23 rads and 2 condenser boilers).

That sounds like a good set up. I had a look and you can still get real smart looking modern storage heaters

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Pretty easy to work out, the quickest payback would be if you currently use 100% day tariff and the battery let you use 100% night tariff. In that case the saving you would make would be 45.8p less 11.17p= 34.6p per KWh x 1077 per year = £372.96 saving.
That’s at todays prices x last years consumption and is the absolute maximum theoretical saving.
Any future saving are dependant on the gap between the night rate and day rate being maintained. If the gap increases you will save more, if it shrinks, less.
Only thing we need to know now is how much the battery costs?

It would be a little bit better as the solar panels generate so much more than we use for most of the year.
Let‘s call it £400.
So if the battery was £4000 the payback would be 10 years which is probably the lifespan of the battery.

I‘ve had another idea which involves a Campervan ( long time since one of them was mentioned in this thread )

What if we just clear off in the Winter in the van and while we’re paddling in the Atlantic down Agadir way, we won’t be using any gas or electric at home ? Yeah, think I’ll keep the 4 grand and go for that one

 

[johnyboy]

Year to date, I have used 1077kwh of electricity from the grid at a cost of £247.14. Obviously things took a turn for the worse from October and now paying 44.2p per kWh for day units, 11.17p night and 45.85p per day standing charge.
From your experience, and without putting you to any bother, do you think there would be a payback for me with a storage battery ?

The quick and dirty method for you would be 30p x the capacity of the battery, for arguments sake choose 5 kw so £3 a day "saved" = £500 a year. This also does not factor in the "spare" solar you don't use in summer that goes to the grid, that you are paid a pittance for only to request back from the grid in the evening, this gap is bigger than the 30p. But as you are only using approx 4kw a day on average it will likely alter through the seasons. IF the 5kw battery cost £5k installed it would be a ten year payback?

 

[Vagophile]

What if we just clear off in the Winter in the van

You end up with no energy costs for the time you are away and a baffled energy supplier, especially if you have been paying by monthly standing order. You have to ensure that you have protected against damage from extreme cold.
Edit. You also should ensure that your property is adequateley insured for the period of your absence, sometimes not as easy as you might expect.
When we used to disappear to Greece for 3/4 months we always found that our income exceeded our expenditure by some margin, leaving us with a notional "profit" on our travels.

 

[trev0rk]

would be a little bit better as the solar panels generate so much more than we use for most of the year.
Let‘s call it £400.
So if the battery was £4000 the payback would be 10 years which is probably the lifespan of the battery.

Your numbers are about right. It would not have been cost effective even a year ago.
My simple view was I earn £500 pa from my FIT.
Choice was either buy a battery, give the money to the energy supplier, or spend it down the pub.
I took the boring option

 

[Mansfieldman750]

You end up with no energy costs for the time you are away and a baffled energy supplier, especially if you have been paying by monthly standing order. You have to ensure that you have protected against damage from extreme cold.
Edit. You also should ensure that your property is adequateley insured for the period of your absence, sometimes not as easy as you might expect.
When we used to disappear to Greece for 3/4 months we always found that our income exceeded our expenditure by some margin, leaving us with a notional "profit" on our travels.

Greece sounds good. I got a bit fixated on Morocco but yes definitely give it a go

 

[Mansfieldman750]

The quick and dirty method for you would be 30p x the capacity of the battery, for arguments sake choose 5 kw so £3 a day "saved" = £500 a year. This also does not factor in the "spare" solar you don't use in summer that goes to the grid, that you are paid a pittance for only to request back from the grid in the evening, this gap is bigger than the 30p. But as you are only using approx 4kw a day on average it will likely alter through the seasons. IF the 5kw battery cost £5k installed it would be a ten year payback?

Thanks for that. Yes confirm that our grid use is very seasonal 138 kWh November, 61 kWh June, it’s the old problem with solars - generate more than you can use in summer, not enough winter.
Everyone is different, but I’m going to leave the battery option alone.
I am absolutely serious about clearing off in winter though, especially after reading Vagophile and trev0rk’s excellent posts.

 

[Vagophile]

Greece sounds good. I got a bit fixated on Morocco but yes definitely give it a go

You've got the wheels, you choose. For us, east and warm was the choice, definitely an option if you don't have home commitments.

 

[willwander]

Any other recommendations for stove top fans? I bought a cheap ish one off Amazon, it looks the part and spins like crazy but doesn’t seem to actually blow any air