Flat battery again

[icic]

Yet again I have come out to find the engine battery flat. This is the second time in 4 weeks. No idea why.

Also the leisure battery display seems not right, looking at the display when the ignition is turned on it says 0 amps, when switching the heater on it’s saying there are -6 to -16.6 is this right ? Sorry don’t understand electrics

I wonder if it has something to do with the kitchen unit strip light that has a mind of its own and switching on, not sure if on camping mode or door mode.

Also the heater has been giving large amounts of smoke as it switches on, my neighbour called the fire brigade yesterday ago as is was running it for a few minutes, someone mentioned that might be to do with a poor Leisure battery. So wonder if that relevant ?

 

[Qnapper]

I would say both your batteries are dead. 12.1volt really means the battery is just about 50% less than that reading a few times and it will not recover.

The -16.6 amps is what your heater is using, but your battery cannot cope so heater will not work correctly.
I would guess that because your leisure battery is so poor that the heater and anything else using batteries is drawing from your Veh battery and killing that to.

Have you not got a good mains charger you can leave plugged in? this may help after charging batteries for 48hrs or so depending on charger and state of batteries (which might be dead!)

 

[icic]

So the light on the kitchen unit that comes on when the van is parked at Radom times may have caused all of this ?

 

[icic]

Just wondering why my batteries have gone, the van is under a year old

 

[Qnapper]

I have read that the kitchen unit light is a problem and needs to be fixed at VW dealership. That could be your problem and if so they should replace both batteries - I hope so fingers crossed - keep everyone informed.

 

[kurienp]

@icic , unfortunate that you are having these issues with your van. I know, it can leave a bad taste about dealers and VW. I would personally gather more information, before even approaching a dealer. There are a few things that you can do.

I would deal with the two batteries separately. However, before that, a few questions -
a) how old is your van? I am assuming less than 2 years old. (your Join date is Aug 2019). Information on the Year of the van will help.
b) Also, did you have it from new? I am assuming yes. Do correct me if otherwise.
c) Information on the number of miles it has done since it date of registration will also help.

You will know that all electrics ahead of the B-Pillar is on the starter battery and everything behind it is on the two leisure batteries.

Dealing with one battery at a time.

1. Engine Starter Battery.
- In your other thread on heater smoke, you mentioned that you were able to start the van without any issues. Since then, has the van been not driven for > 1 week?
- the reason I ask - with a healthy battery, people on here have left their vans not started for extended periods (>4 weeks) and have been able to start the van perfectly. It could mean a weak battery.

Get the starter battery checked (Halfords do that), and see what they report back on the health of the battery.
Also, while at that, do see if Halfords can check that your alternator is producing sufficient juice to keep the battery charged.

- As Qnapper has said, to maintain a healthy battery, recommended to plug it in for 24 hrs every month (not required if you drive it regularly). In the last month, my van was plugged in for a week continuously as my son was using the van as his study room.
- Either which way on whatever Halfords report, is there anything else that is plugged into the van such as USB phone chargers, especially the ones with a small light on them, which are technically always ON and have the ability to drain a weak battery fairly easily.
_ do you have any additional accessories running off the starter battery - trackers, cameras, or any other devices?

Do check all these, and if the answer to the last 2 questions is a no, then it points to a weak battery and you may need to get it changed.

If you've been driving regularly, (and long distances - you mentioned 200 mls on your other post) and still this has happened, it will surely be a warranty job as the dealer could have given you a van with a weak battery, as it may have been standing in their forecourt for extended duration without any charge.

Another thing - if plugging in the van and it does not have any impact on the starter battery, check the split charge relay fuse. I am forgetting which fuse it is, but do search on here and you will be able to find information on it. (example - see this - https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/leisure-battery-not-charging-when-driven.16396/ )

2. Leisure Batteries
From your earlier post on the smoke from the diesel heater and it switching off, it seems that all points to a failing leisure battery. The kitchen lighting will have a negative impact on it ... and if it is randomly coming off and on, then yes, that can drain the battery.

If you have been using the van regularly, and plugging it in as advised, then, I would
a) get the batteries checked independently
b) get the dealer to fix the kitchen lights
c) at the same time report that you have been doing everything right on the battery charge front and that points to you being given a van with a possible failing battery which has to be replaced under warranty. If they say that the battery is alright, then show them the other battery test report, if it is reporting a weak battery.

All the best and do let us know in case of any other queries.

 

[icic]

@icic , unfortunate that you are having these issues with your van. I know, it can leave a bad taste about dealers and VW. I would personally gather more information, before even approaching a dealer. There are a few things that you can do.

I would deal with the two batteries separately. However, before that, a few questions -
a) how old is your van? I am assuming less than 2 years old. (your Join date is Aug 2019). Information on the Year of the van will help.
b) Also, did you have it from new? I am assuming yes. Do correct me if otherwise.
c) Information on the number of miles it has done since it date of registration will also help.

You will know that all electrics ahead of the B-Pillar is on the starter battery and everything behind it is on the two leisure batteries.

Dealing with one battery at a time.

1. Engine Starter Battery.
- In your other thread on heater smoke, you mentioned that you were able to start the van without any issues. Since then, has the van been not driven for > 1 week?
- the reason I ask - with a healthy battery, people on here have left their vans not started for extended periods (>4 weeks) and have been able to start the van perfectly. It could mean a weak battery.

Get the starter battery checked (Halfords do that), and see what they report back on the health of the battery.
Also, while at that, do see if Halfords can check that your alternator is producing sufficient juice to keep the battery charged.

- As Qnapper has said, to maintain a healthy battery, recommended to plug it in for 24 hrs every month (not required if you drive it regularly). In the last month, my van was plugged in for a week continuously as my son was using the van as his study room.
- Either which way on whatever Halfords report, is there anything else that is plugged into the van such as USB phone chargers, especially the ones with a small light on them, which are technically always ON and have the ability to drain a weak battery fairly easily.
_ do you have any additional accessories running off the starter battery - trackers, cameras, or any other devices?

Do check all these, and if the answer to the last 2 questions is a no, then it points to a weak battery and you may need to get it changed.

If you've been driving regularly, (and long distances - you mentioned 200 mls on your other post) and still this has happened, it will surely be a warranty job as the dealer could have given you a van with a weak battery, as it may have been standing in their forecourt for extended duration without any charge.

Another thing - if plugging in the van and it does not have any impact on the starter battery, check the split charge relay fuse. I am forgetting which fuse it is, but do search on here and you will be able to find information on it. (example - see this - https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/leisure-battery-not-charging-when-driven.16396/ )

2. Leisure Batteries
From your earlier post on the smoke from the diesel heater and it switching off, it seems that all points to a failing leisure battery. The kitchen lighting will have a negative impact on it ... and if it is randomly coming off and on, then yes, that can drain the battery.

If you have been using the van regularly, and plugging it in as advised, then, I would
a) get the batteries checked independently
b) get the dealer to fix the kitchen lights
c) at the same time report that you have been doing everything right on the battery charge front and that points to you being given a van with a possible failing battery which has to be replaced under warranty. If they say that the battery is alright, then show them the other battery test report, if it is reporting a weak battery.

All the best and do let us know in case of any other queries.

Thank you so much for your reply it means a lot.

The van was registered by the dealer in dec 2019. We bought it from stock in may 2020 where it had sat for a while due to Covid. It had 100 miles on it, so effectively new. It has done around 5000 miles.

The van was driven 200 miles a week ago. Since then a brief 10mins trip couple of days ago. The van was on mains charge A week ago for a few days. The kitchen light has been on when I check the van, I turn it off then it turns itself back on between me looking again. So yes very random

There are no other electrical devices connected anywhere. So it’s looking like I have a weak battery maybe due to it sitting there for months before I bought it ?

On the leisure battery front they look as though might both be shot. Umm asking the dealer to change 3 batteries under warranty is going to be interesting. Will get the reports done before I go, and hopefully that will help.

I will report back, it’s going in on the 30th

 

[B J G]

Thank you so much for your reply it means a lot.

The van was registered by the dealer in dec 2019. We bought it from stock in may 2020 where it had sat for a while due to Covid. It had 100 miles on it, so effectively new. It has done around 5000 miles.

The van was driven 200 miles a week ago. Since then a brief 10mins trip couple of days ago. The van was on mains charge A week ago for a few days. The kitchen light has been on when I check the van, I turn it off then it turns itself back on between me looking again. So yes very random

There are no other electrical devices connected anywhere. So it’s looking like I have a weak battery maybe due to it sitting there for months before I bought it ?

On the leisure battery front they look as though might both be shot. Umm asking the dealer to change 3 batteries under warranty is going to be interesting. Will get the reports done before I go, and hopefully that will help.

I will report back, it’s going in on the 30th

VW (not the Dealer) insist on a long battery test procedure before they will authorise a replacement.

Found that out when my Wife's EOS battery died whilst out shopping. RAC called out who confirmed battery dead - not possible to recharge. RAC jump start to get home. VW wouldn't even lend a battery during test. They actually came out, jump started the car and took it in for 2 days.

Expect a slow resolution.

 

[kurienp]

Thank you so much for your reply it means a lot.

The van was registered by the dealer in dec 2019. We bought it from stock in may 2020 where it had sat for a while due to Covid. It had 100 miles on it, so effectively new. It has done around 5000 miles.

The van was driven 200 miles a week ago. Since then a brief 10mins trip couple of days ago. The van was on mains charge A week ago for a few days. The kitchen light has been on when I check the van, I turn it off then it turns itself back on between me looking again. So yes very random

There are no other electrical devices connected anywhere. So it’s looking like I have a weak battery maybe due to it sitting there for months before I bought it ?

On the leisure battery front they look as though might both be shot. Umm asking the dealer to change 3 batteries under warranty is going to be interesting. Will get the reports done before I go, and hopefully that will help.

I will report back, it’s going in on the 30th

Dec 2019 to May 2020 - 5 months and just 100 miles - very bad for the battery, especially if it had not been maintained/put on trickle charge.

However, 5000 miles in about 8 months is good use (very good if majority of the rides have been long) and that should have kept the battery healthy. In addition, you have also plugged it in and that also has not helped.

Let them keep the van for a few more days than planned if needed, but in this case, do not accept anything less than all three batteries replaced. Do not accept if they offer to change only 1 of the leisure batteries. The weak battery will kill the other healthy one.

All the best with the dealer. Stay calm, use the data - 100 miles on 5 months and 5000 mls in 8 months - who do you think has taken better care of the battery?

 

[Perfectos]

I had my Starter battery replaced under warrant, I had been aware the battery health was not at its best, so I keep records of the voltage at various times.
the battery failed to turn the engine over properly, but started, then one day it failed to start,
called vw assist, (AA patrol), came out, said the battery was shot, advised to take it to the dealers, they cannot change up under warranty but will sell you a battery!
Drove the van to the dealer, who had the van two days, said they could not find an issue, other than the charge level was a bit low!

Perversely they did not charge the battery before giving it back to me !

shortly after, I contacted the dealers after sales manager to advise that they had tested the starter battery but I was still experiencing loss of battery charge and that after a 200 mile run, the battery was only at 12.8v immediately after, next day 12.4v, next day 12.1v
long story short van went back in, this time they hooked up to the Factory in Germany to carry out a full test, battery failed
replaced under warranty

the factory test produces a paper copy of the read out, ask to see it.
if the van is given back with a failing battery, let it go flat, call VW assist and have them truck it to the dealer, the dealer then had to deal with it as a priority.

bottom line keep records of the voltage during driving ( check alternator output) immediately after driving, 1 hour after driving, 24hours after driving etc

 

[icic]

Thanks for all advice, that really helps. Bit of a stupid question but how do you keep track of the starter battery voltage, is there a readout anywhere ?

 

[Perfectos]

You can use a volt meter directly on the battery or get a plug in device and take the reading from the cigarette lighter socket in the dash

I use a plug in device that shows voltage and allow you to expand one socket and plug in other 12v / usb devices

Similar to this

allow you to check the alternator voltage when driving and breaking etc

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks for all advice, that really helps. Bit of a stupid question but how do you keep track of the starter battery voltage, is there a readout anywhere ?

What make is the Engine Battery? If it is Moll then VW had a bad batch and are swapping them out.

 

[GSX1300R]

I took our van in to VW on the last day of the 3 year warranty as the leisure batteries were discharging at the rate of 10% a day with nothing switched on. They checked and tested both the batteries, admitted they were faulty and replaced them both..I have to admit I was quite surprised they did it without any argument..Also at the same time they replaced both the rear door struts as when the guy was replacing the batteries it came down and hit him on the head..I just thought it was normal for the door to have a mind of its own as it it had been like that for 3 years.

 

[icic]

What make is the Engine Battery? If it is Moll then VW had a bad batch and are swapping them out.

It’s not a Moll one.