First World Problems :)

[ToastTopper]

Hi all,
Been looking at the forum for a while, and decided to join up.
My deliberation is very much a first world problem - I’m very conscious about that. I will get the California in the spring, but need to make a few adjustments to make it possible, including selling my T2 Westy.
The key things. From day one I need 5 seats, although 90% of the time seat 5 won’t be used. It will be a daily driver, with a 50 mile round trip commute. Then, its a surf, cycle and short weekend bus. Maybe once a year a 10 day UK or Europe trip.
So, as I see it my option are:

• Buy dealer nearly new - would need a bit of finance, and have to get roof bars and cycle rack as extras;
• Buy a good spec one owner van, 2 or so years old - still might need a bit of finance, but will likely have bike rack and or roof bars. It should have a warranty balance;
• Buy a 5 year old van, expect some wear and tear. Will probably have roof bars and a bike rack. Will need to keep some cash set aside for potential big bills.

Is a 5th seat easy to find second hand? What do you think.

 

[larrylamb]

First decision to make is what would work best for you, a Beach or an SE/Ocean?

 

[ToastTopper]

Has to be an Ocean. Possible that we might need a tow bar as well, which looks like a tricky retrofit.

 

[B J G]

I'd agree with larrylamb on deciding on the most suitable vehicle type.
Beach has the permanent seat capacity, no 5th seat to mess about with or store when not in use. Also more rear space for bikes etc.


Combi van may be an option but was talking to someone who said that he'd been looking to replace his van with one but they are hard to find secondhand.

 

[2into1]

Until the T6 came out, not all T5s had the 3rd rail necessary for the 5th seat (ocean / SE), it was a cost option I think.

I think all t6s have the 3rd rail (someone will confirm if the 4motion ones do, as there was a weight problem) although I think I saw a thread a few days ago suggesting a brand new 2019 Cali had gone back to 2 rails.

I know this is a bit vague, but shop carefully .

5th seats are easy to find although not in the same trim as your other 4.

 

[Auberg-ine]

Hi all,
Been looking at the forum for a while, and decided to join up.
My deliberation is very much a first world problem - I’m very conscious about that. I will get the California in the spring, but need to make a few adjustments to make it possible, including selling my T2 Westy.
The key things. From day one I need 5 seats, although 90% of the time seat 5 won’t be used. It will be a daily driver, with a 50 mile round trip commute. Then, its a surf, cycle and short weekend bus. Maybe once a year a 10 day UK or Europe trip.
So, as I see it my option are:

• Buy dealer nearly new - would need a bit of finance, and have to get roof bars and cycle rack as extras;
• Buy a good spec one owner van, 2 or so years old - still might need a bit of finance, but will likely have bike rack and or roof bars. It should have a warranty balance;
• Buy a 5 year old van, expect some wear and tear. Will probably have roof bars and a bike rack. Will need to keep some cash set aside for potential big bills.

Is a 5th seat easy to find second hand? What do you think.

Welcome Toast!
Your 'profile' corresponds exactly to mine.
So you'll have to go for an Ocean!
I got mine 5 months old (re-sale from rental service company). Best investment ever.

 

[B J G]

Until the T6 came out, not all T5s had the 3rd rail necessary for the 5th seat (ocean / SE), it was a cost option I think.

I think all t6s have the 3rd rail (someone will confirm if the 4motion ones do, as there was a weight problem) although I think I saw a thread a few days ago suggesting a brand new 2019 Cali had gone back to 2 rails.

I know this is a bit vague, but shop carefully .

5th seats are easy to find although not in the same trim as your other 4.

I can confirm that my T6 4motion only has 2 rails.

 

[ToastTopper]

We have the T2 and Caravelle at the moment, looking to come down to one. Most of the time we will be camping as two people, so want a modern, reliable and warm Westy.

 

[larrylamb]

Good time to buy a used Cali at the moment with some people offloading end of season, a new one now has the costly vehicle tax to consider.
Re 5th seat and 3rd rail on T5, as far as i know it was standard on the later models (my 2015 has it) but is not an option on 4motion models as B J G mentioned.

 

[Amarillo]

We have the T2 and Caravelle at the moment, looking to come down to one. Most of the time we will be camping as two people, so want a modern, reliable and warm Westy.

We have found our T6 Beach to be modern, reliable and warm. Four of us and a dog spent a year living in it from Nordkapp to Lehmivaara to Cabo da Roca to Tarifa and everywhere in between.

All you need is a camping stove, fridge, window bags and water carrier and your Beach has everything an Ocean has, plus the flexibility to be a 7 seat MPV or a van. As an additional bonus the lower bed is kingsize (150cm) with a cavernous storage capacity below.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[larrylamb]

All you need is a camping stove, fridge, window bags and water carrier and your Beach has everything an Ocean has,

They are not the only differences between the two vehicles as you know Tom, completely different specced vehicles and quite misleading info to a new member.

 

[ToastTopper]

Thanks all. Have had Bay Window Campers for 15 years, so I know its an SE or an Ocean that I want.

Maybe I asked the wrong question. Looking at the entry points to owning a California, and thinking my narrow requirements and the limited availability of used vans takes me closer to something that is nearly new.

 

[parrot2]

Welcome good luck in your search There are usually plenty of calis for sale mostly with low mileage and most are very reliable as there is basically little difference in the basic specs between each year why not look for a low mileage older cali and save yourself some cash.

 

[sapto]

Welcome here ToastTopper
As above: Great time to look around for a campervan. SE/Ocean. As you write you do not need to try/hire before buying: You know what you want
Is 4Motion important? If yes then your choice could be a T5 4M with 2.0 TDI and 150 hp or the equalant T6?
Retrofitting a towbar (for my T5 SE) was easy but of course more expensive.
Wish you find your van here or elsewhere soon!
Cheers

 

[Hotel California]

Welcome allong !

 

[Erbster]

I wouldn’t be overly worried whether roof bars or bike rack included with s van - they are not particularly expensive (compared to cost of vehicle) or difficult to add later. The towbar is a more important consideration and would be looking for towbar prep at least on any van I looked at. If I was replacing my Ocean now, I would be looking for a demonstrator or 1-2 year old vehicle.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

 

[ToastTopper]

Thanks Erbster. The trip on your blog looks amazing.

I hadn't considered a 4Motion - I expect the fuel economy won't be ideal for how I'm going to use it (and do they cost more?).

 

[andyinluton]

Note you can't put 5 seats in a 4motion.

 

[Erbster]

Thanks Erbster. The trip on your blog looks amazing.

I hadn't considered a 4Motion - I expect the fuel economy won't be ideal for how I'm going to use it (and do they cost more?).

Yes, they cost more to buy and run. I seriously considered one, but could not quite justify the cost for our use case.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

 

[Fred wilson]

I got about 7.5% off list price for a new ocean about 4 weeks ago. That made it on a par with the rentals being sold off and those up to 18 months old from a private seller. Didn't seem any sense in buying a second hand one for the same money as new. Although I didn't tick some of the options e.g. rear camera and app connect stereo, just not things I need, so perhaps not a totally fair comparison.

For me the nearly new market made no sense especially ex rentals ("don't be gentle, it's a rental" was always my motto when I was younger and dafter).

Btw we got the 5th seat which is £396 new. I recall some chat from the dealer about not getting the third rail if you don't buy the 5th seat at factory build time, but I don't know if that's true. Tbh £396 seemed a fair price to me so I went for it. The bottom bed doesn't lie flat until you take it out, so there's a chance that 5th seat will spend most of its life in storage...

 

[Bramco]

They are not the only differences between the two vehicles as you know Tom, completely different specced vehicles and quite misleading info to a new member.

Disagree entirely. Tom was explaining how the 'advantages' of an Ocean can be easily outweighed by a Beach with a few simple additions.

You say his points aren't the only difference - and you're right - save dragging around half a ton of stuff you will probably never use and get yourself a fabulous double bed downstairs instead of a double coffin. We can only see advantages in the Beach personally.

 

[ToastTopper]

Thanks for the tips Fred. We won’t camp with 5, just occasionally need to troop the full family around. Finding a used van with a 5th seat might be a struggle. Wondered if the used vans with the VW dealers are ex rental? Specs and mileage’s are usually very similar.

 

[Erbster]

Thanks for the tips Fred. We won’t camp with 5, just occasionally need to troop the full family around. Finding a used van with a 5th seat might be a struggle. Wondered if the used vans with the VW dealers are ex rental? Specs and mileage’s are usually very similar.

A fifth seat often comes up for sale on here, so as long as the van you buy has 3 rails, you could add he extra seats.

As you can see the Ocean/Beach debate is s hot one. Think carefully about what you want to do with the van. One mans “ton of useless equipment” is another’s luxury home from home.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

 

[larrylamb]

Disagree entirely. Tom was explaining how the 'advantages' of an Ocean can be easily outweighed by a Beach with a few simple additions.

You say his points aren't the only difference - and you're right - save dragging around half a ton of stuff you will probably never use and get yourself a fabulous double bed downstairs instead of a double coffin. We can only see advantages in the Beach personally.

Well, you are the only one who disagrees it seems. I was stating facts re spec on vehicles not the old Beach vs Ocean debate. The poster stated it had to be an Ocean, why do others try to change their mind just because they have the other type of Cali. He obviously does want to cart around half a ton of stuff because he probably will use it like a lot of us do.

 

[Amarillo]

Well, you are the only one who disagrees it seems. I was stating facts re spec on vehicles not the old Beach vs Ocean debate. The poster stated it had to be an Ocean, why do others try to change their mind just because they have the other type of Cali. He obviously does want to cart around half a ton of stuff because he probably will use it like a lot of us do.

I am another who disagrees - not hitting the 'disagree' button in no way suggests that I agree (I have hit it now to avoid any doubt).

Essentially the additional features of the Ocean are kitchen, storage and fresh and waste water tanks, all at the expense of a smaller lower berth. The Ocean has a few luxuries such as an electric roof (something I wouldn't consider even if a zero cost option). Other options such as a parking heater, standard with the Ocean, can be added as an option on the beach (or a cheap electric heater can be carried for use when on hookup).

The OP requires five seats ~10% of the time, and I simply wanted to point out to the OP that a Beach can perform all the living functions of the Ocean, have 5 seats 100% of the time with the option to increase to 7 seats. The OP also hinted at financial constraints, and my post was intended to show a way to save ~£10,000 on a new purchase without losing camping functionality by buying a few relatively cheap additions. I think it was a perfectly valid post to make given the content of the original post.

The fact that the OP has a very clear idea of which vehicle is best suited to his family's needs may make my post somewhat irrelevant but no less valid.