Diesel ban 2030

[Ch1pbutty]

..

Youre assuming all car parks and all roadsides will have charging points at every parking space.

Wireless Charging would be the answer....but expect that is a long way off

 

[edzt]

That would be the same people that expect the people in metropolitan areas on higher incomes to pay more tax to subsidise those in other areas. Heres the Gov breakdown of where people lived in 2014

Category	Population	Proportion (%)
Rural, comprising:	9,260,892	17.0
Rural town and fringe	5,003,956	9.2
of which those in a sparse setting	192,085	0.4
Rural village and hamlet	4,256,936	7.8
of which those in a sparse setting	298,045	0.5
Urban, comprising:	45,055,726	83.0
Urban major conurbation	19,415,739	35.7
Urban minor conurbation	1,948,518	3.6
Urban city and town	23,691,469	43.6
of which those in a sparse setting	90,397	0.2
England	54,316,618	100.0

Expenditure per child on education
Kensington and Chelsea £6200
Northumberland £4600
Transport per head
London £960
Midlands £268

 

[66tim99]

..


Wireless Charging would be the answer....but expect that is a long way off

Or charging from lamp posts

 

[David Ashcroft]

What’s the choice? Buy the van and enjoy it or sit around waiting for a viable electric camper.
The only other choice is no van and that’s not the choice I have taken, life’s for living.

 

[Thepuma]

With the amount of lampposts needed im looking forward to the roads being extremely well lit in future.

 

[Velma's Dad]

No, and nor is there zero pollution in the manufacture of the cars, and batteries, and the supporting infrastucture. Would be very interesting to know how many years it takes for an EV to repay it’s environmental debt and actually show a net benefit.

Easy enough to look it up, plenty of reports. Eg www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change. About two years for a Nissan Leaf to 'overtake' an ICE in carbon terms, and emits three times less carbon over its full life cycle.

 

[andyinluton]

Expenditure per child on education
Kensington and Chelsea £6200
Northumberland £4600
Transport per head
London £960
Midlands £268

Not a massive difference in spend on education - given the cost of building a school & employing staff would be far cheaper in Northumberland.

Transport you've given the figure for the East midlands, West midlands is double that.
The London expenditure in the last few years has been Crossrail & lately buying up land etc in the capital for HS2 to enable those in the North to come down & see what a glorious place London is & still get home in time to feed the whippet.

 

[andyinluton]

Easy enough to look it up, plenty of reports. Eg www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change. About two years for a Nissan Leaf to 'overtake' an ICE in carbon terms, and emits three times less carbon over its full life cycle.

It would be nice to see a fair & balanced report - if they rewrote it & used the most modern efficient ICE vehicle rather than the "average" on one side of the equation & used the real mileage achieved from an electric car rather than the calculated in theory on the other.

 

[edzt]

Not a massive difference in spend on education - given the cost of building a school & employing staff would be far cheaper in Northumberland.

Transport you've given the figure for the East midlands, West midlands is double that.
The London expenditure in the last few years has been Crossrail & lately buying up land etc in the capital for HS2 to enable those in the North to come down & see what a glorious place London is & still get home in time to feed the whippet.

Funny, I thought London had heavily subsidised travel hence TFL having to be bailed out by the taxpayer

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Easy enough to look it up, plenty of reports. Eg www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change. About two years for a Nissan Leaf to 'overtake' an ICE in carbon terms, and emits three times less carbon over its full life cycle.

What I think it misses is the total environmental cost of producing a new vehicle. Metalwork, tyres, plastics, glass, etc.
Its not just about emmissions and battery production.
So , if we are encouraged to scrap perfectly serviceable ICE vehicles to buy EV’s what is most polluting to the planet :-
1. Running an existing ICE vehicle for another 10-15 years?
OR
2. The manufacture of a new vehicle plus its 10-15 year emissions?

 

[danvan]

Youre assuming all car parks and all roadsides will have charging points at every parking space.

Not every space, but certainly somewhere to charge them nearby. I’ve said it before on here, but in my borough we already have chargers in the lamp posts, bigger chargers on roadsides and very big chargers at the petrol station. It’d require a bit more thought than just visiting a petrol station, but you’d get used to it I guess.

 

[danvan]

What I think it misses is the total environmental cost of producing a new vehicle. Metalwork, tyres, plastics, glass, etc.
Its not just about emmissions and battery production.
So , if we are encouraged to scrap perfectly serviceable ICE vehicles to buy EV’s what is most polluting to the planet :-
1. Running an existing ICE vehicle for another 10-15 years?
OR
2. The manufacture of a new vehicle plus its 10-15 year emissions?

I think the idea is that if you are buying a new car, then it’s electric/hybrid, but if you aren’t buying a new car then don’t change for the sake of it. There’s an environment impact of building a new car irrespective of whether it is electric or diesel.

 

[danvan]

With the amount of lampposts needed im looking forward to the roads being extremely well lit in future.

I guess anyone with a drive has a charger at home. Anyone without one uses a public one (either nearby their house, at their destination (shopping centre, garden centre, national trust property etc.) or at the house of someone you are visiting).

 

[Thepuma]

Not every space, but certainly somewhere to charge them nearby. I’ve said it before on here, but in my borough we already have chargers in the lamp posts, bigger chargers on roadsides and very big chargers at the petrol station. It’d require a bit more thought than just visiting a petrol station, but you’d get used to it I guess.

I would say the only way all electric is going to work is if...

1) The range is minimum 300 miles
And

2) Fast charge empty to half full is something like 10 minutes max

They have i years to improve the technology.

 

[2into1]

 

[andyinluton]

I would say the only way all electric is going to work is if...

1) The range is minimum 300 miles
And

2) Fast charge empty to half full is something like 10 minutes max

They have i years to improve the technology.

Better would be extra battery packs to extend the range for long trips. No point pulling around weighty batteries if you are not going to use them. Rent a couple for your summer holiday etc?

 

[Thepuma]

I guess anyone with a drive has a charger at home. Anyone without one uses a public one (either nearby their house, at their destination (shopping centre, garden centre, national trust property etc.) or at the house of someone you are visiting).

If you live in flats you will have an allocated parking space...unless every space has a charging station then it won't work......I then have a long commute...at work there's only a few spaces so you have to basically drive around the local roads looking for a space....so a good chance I wouldn't be able to charge during the day.

Its a conundrum that MUST be solved before forcing all electric on everyone.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I think the idea is that if you are buying a new car, then it’s electric/hybrid, but if you aren’t buying a new car then don’t change for the sake of it. There’s an environment impact of building a new car irrespective of whether it is electric or diesel.

I agree Danvan, but it’s a bit like the old scrap scheme. We are, and will increasingly, be encouraged to scrap perfectly good ICE vehicles. Deadlines are a bit of a blunt instrument.

 

[danvan]

I would say the only way all electric is going to work is if...

1) The range is minimum 300 miles
And

2) Fast charge empty to half full is something like 10 minutes max

They have i years to improve the technology.

I think Tesla are already there. Most of their cars are 300+ miles range and their super chargers do something like 0-80% in 20 mins. That technology then just needs to be translated to the more affordable brands (Nissan Leaf etc). They’re getting there quite quickly, I think the upgraded Leaf has added another 80 miles range.

 

[danvan]

If you live in flats you will have an allocated parking space...unless every space has a charging station then it won't work......I then have a long commute...at work there's only a few spaces so you have to basically drive around the local roads looking for a space....so a good chance I wouldn't be able to charge during the day.

Its a conundrum that MUST be solved before forcing all electric on everyone.

People round here seem to take their electric car to the charging spaces, rather than the charging spaces coming to them. On my street there are 4 EVs so far, I’m guessing they either charge them on the council points or round the corner at the Shell garage. But if your commute is 300+ per day then that wouldn’t work.

 

[Amarillo]

Expenditure per child on education
Kensington and Chelsea £6200
Northumberland £4600
Transport per head
London £960
Midlands £268

GDP per head (2018)
North east £23,569
London £54,686

 

[danvan]

I agree Danvan, but it’s a bit like the old scrap scheme. We are, and will increasingly, be encouraged to scrap perfectly good ICE vehicles. Deadlines are a bit of a blunt instrument.

I think you are right, either a scrapage scheme or just priced out owning a diesel/petrol. I currently pay £400 pa each to park the Cali and the Volvo out on the road (electric would be free). And the other day I parked for 5 mins to pick up my daughter from football which cost £1.20 + a £3 diesel surcharge (electric would be free). Next year every single journey will cost the ULEZ charge (c. £13). That’s the start of pricing out diesel ownership.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I think you are right, either a scrapage scheme or just priced out owning a diesel/petrol. I currently pay £400 pa each to park the Cali and the Volvo out on the road (electric would be free). And the other day I parked for 5 mins to pick up my daughter from football which cost £1.20 + a £3 diesel surcharge (electric would be free). Next year every single journey will cost the ULEZ charge (c. £13). That’s the start of pricing out diesel ownership.

You're right.

 

[Thepuma]

I think Tesla are already there. Most of their cars are 300+ miles range and their super chargers do something like 0-80% in 20 mins. That technology then just needs to be translated to the more affordable brands (Nissan Leaf etc). They’re getting there quite quickly, I think the upgraded Leaf has added another 80 miles range.

Yeah

People round here seem to take their electric car to the charging spaces, rather than the charging spaces coming to them. On my street there are 4 EVs so far, I’m guessing they either charge them on the council points or round the corner at the Shell garage. But if your commute is 300+ per day then that wouldn’t work.

Well...my commute isn't that big...but depending what office I'm at it can be 200 miles round trip. Both sets of parents in my family are 500 miles round trip I do that twice a month.

People round here seem to take their electric car to the charging spaces, rather than the charging spaces coming to them. On my street there are 4 EVs so far, I’m guessing they either charge them on the council points or round the corner

That's ok at the minute as a tiny percentage of cars are electric....but when every car is electric and everyone needs to charge their cars regularly, there will be fights for the local charging points.

 

[Digger]

The loss of revenue from petrol and diesel cars will result in electric vehicles being taxed to the hilt to make up for the shortfall and new infrastructure. One thing is for sure - the motorist will pay, electric of not.